Psycho-Babble Alternative Thread 1050820

Shown: posts 6 to 30 of 32. Go back in thread:

 

Re: n-acetyl-cysteine

Posted by Tomatheus on September 17, 2013, at 0:39:00

In reply to n-acetyl-cysteine, posted by Twinleaf on September 13, 2013, at 6:46:27

Well, I don't have much experience with NAC, but I did try it, and it seemed to worsen the agitation that I started to experience when I took lithium. I took it back in 2005 or 2006, which was when I was having major problems with fatigue and hypersomnia, but before the onset of my psychosis. At any rate, I do wish you luck with the NAC. For me, the agitation came on after a single dose, so hopefully that particular side effect won't be a problem for you if you haven't noticed it yet.

T.

 

Re: n-acetyl-cysteine

Posted by Christ_empowered on September 17, 2013, at 0:39:01

In reply to Re: n-acetyl-cysteine, posted by Tomatheus on September 13, 2013, at 14:09:13

I may re-start it, mostly for some OCD stuff (Luvox was a no go for me, and amoxapine sounds scary).

I took 1800mgs/day (1200, then 600) as part of a several months long detox that I followed with an Orthomolecular Protocol. I mixed it with high dose (1200mgs) alpha lipoic acid, B-100 complex, selenium, high dose C and E, high dose Taurine (6 grams/day), and green tea extract.

The results were very good. The Orthomolecular line up I put myself on seemed to work better (and a bit faster) than expected for someone who's had mental problems of varying degrees of intensity since childhood.

If you wanted to, you could try time-release NAC. I think Jarrow makes one, "NAC Sustain" or something. I'm sure other companies make similar products.

 

Re: n-acetyl-cysteine SLS

Posted by sigismund on September 17, 2013, at 0:39:01

In reply to Re: n-acetyl-cysteine Twinleaf, posted by SLS on September 13, 2013, at 8:15:35

>NAC made my depression noticeably worse,

Less energy Scott?

 

Re: n-acetyl-cysteine Tomatheus

Posted by sigismund on September 17, 2013, at 0:39:02

In reply to Re: n-acetyl-cysteine, posted by Tomatheus on September 13, 2013, at 14:09:13

>For me, the agitation came on after a single dose,

Right.

(I get glutathione mixed up with that other thing, that other endogenous antioxidant and energy chemical.)

I did think it made my sleep worse, but that is a ubiquitous problem blameable on anything.

 

Re: n-acetyl-cysteine Christ_empowered

Posted by sigismund on September 17, 2013, at 0:39:02

In reply to Re: n-acetyl-cysteine, posted by Christ_empowered on September 13, 2013, at 16:06:41

> mostly for some OCD stuff

So you liked it. They say to use plenty of VitC with it.

I use it after drinking sometimes.

 

Re: n-acetyl-cysteine

Posted by sigismund on September 17, 2013, at 0:39:03

In reply to Re: n-acetyl-cysteine Tomatheus, posted by sigismund on September 13, 2013, at 19:21:13

>I get glutathione mixed up with that other thing, that other endogenous antioxidant and energy chemical.

Or whatever they are and do.

I was thinking of SOD. Boosting that wrecked my sleep, IIRC

 

Re: n-acetyl-cysteine

Posted by Christ_empowered on September 17, 2013, at 0:39:03

In reply to Re: n-acetyl-cysteine Christ_empowered, posted by sigismund on September 13, 2013, at 19:22:59


One thing I don't like about studies into alternative treatments is that they usually use 1 compound and then throw up their hands when it doesn't work very well.

Maybe its because I do Orthomolecular and that's worked so well, but I'm of the opinion that multiple compounds usually do the trick better than one.

Anyway, I may re-start NAC soon. I've got the vitamin C covered (10 grams/day, 2 equal doses of time release), so it'd be fairly simple to just start doing 2-3 doses a day again and see what happens. My best guess is that with all my niacinamide (up to 6 grams/day) now on board, the NAC will work better.

 

Re: n-acetyl-cysteine

Posted by Twinleaf on September 17, 2013, at 0:39:03

In reply to n-acetyl-cysteine, posted by Twinleaf on September 13, 2013, at 6:46:27

Thanks for all the info, everyone! So far, I haven't noticed much of anything (at 1200mg. per day), but will go up to 2400 mg in 10 days. I'll post what the results are.

 

Re: n-acetyl-cysteine sigismund

Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 0:39:04

In reply to Re: n-acetyl-cysteine SLS, posted by sigismund on September 13, 2013, at 19:16:45

> > NAC made my depression noticeably worse,

> Less energy Scott?

Less energy and more dysphoria.


- Scott

 

Re: n-acetyl-cysteine

Posted by softheprairie on September 17, 2013, at 0:39:04

In reply to n-acetyl-cysteine, posted by Twinleaf on September 13, 2013, at 6:46:27

My psychiatrist had me try it -- I'm thinking that was around five years ago, and I was on it I'm thinking a few months (I don't recall exactly). I think we tried raising it, and I don't think that mattered -- I don't recall any effect from it, good or bad. It was added to other psych meds I was on at the time. Any help for anhedonia or lack of motivation would have been _very_ welcome, but alas, I don't think I got it (or, he may have been using it with my obsessive traits in mind -- he had research on it for something, but now I have forgotten). I bought it at a long-established health food store in town and from an established brand in the supplement industry (and may have tried more than one brand before quitting, I don't recall).

 

Re: n-acetyl-cysteine

Posted by bleauberry on September 17, 2013, at 0:39:05

In reply to n-acetyl-cysteine, posted by Twinleaf on September 13, 2013, at 6:46:27

Anything that is going to help the body cleanse itself of toxins is going to do some benefit on symptoms. NAC fits that category. Careful though. NAC can be strong on stuff you maybe have never heard of...mercury from amalgams, lead from where ever, infections such as lyme. If the dose is too high to start with, and the directions on the bottle are usually extremely too high to start with, then a toxic build up can occur as the NAC loosens up a bunch of stuff too fast. Then you feel sicker and worse.
NAC plays a big role in the body's detox circuits.
Start really low, frequent low doses are better than larger spaced doses in order to keep a steady blood level and avoid some redistribution of toxic junk.
NAC does a bunch of stuff, probably a lot more than we even know about.
As to how it impacts psych symptoms or anhedonia, I would just say that when toxins are removed from receptor sites, the improvement begins. With me as just one of hundreds of thousands of examples, by knocking down the population levels of various lyme organisms, my long standing "treatment resistant" anhedonia is pretty much gone. It's their toxins in the brain that causes the perceived symptoms. All toxins do that regardless of source. If it is somewhat poisonous to the brain, and it is in the brain, anhedonia is an obvious and predictable outcome.
NAC was just a small part of my journey but it is one of the few supplements out there that I believe is a really good one for a wide variety of purposes including but not limited to psychiatric.
Mileage varies. Some people will find it useless or feels bad.
Most people will probably stop their trial way too early. A fair go of NAC would be at least 6 months to a year. If problems along the way, reduce the dose to whatever is needed to stay in the game. Even a tiny bit is going to do a lot of work for you. I would not rely on it as the only weapon against anhedonia, but it could play a role.
For specific work on anhedonia, add to the NAC some Rhodiola Rosea. Jarrow is the only brand I've seen that is the true color rhodiola is supposed to be, and it felt cleaner and better to me than 5 other brands I tested. Doses are probably too high on the bottles. I take Thorne brand which is 100mg, but most brands come in 500mg. Dose size matters, so it takes some experimenting and patience.

 

Re: n-acetyl-cysteine bleauberry

Posted by Twinleaf on September 17, 2013, at 14:55:44

In reply to Re: n-acetyl-cysteine, posted by bleauberry on September 17, 2013, at 0:39:05

Thank you, Blueberry - that is very helpful. I am staying at a low dose, as you suggested, and plan to give it a months-long trial because it does have so many neuroprotective properties. So far, I don't notice anything, positive or negative.

 

Re: n-acetyl-cysteine Twinleaf

Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 22:30:39

In reply to Re: n-acetyl-cysteine bleauberry, posted by Twinleaf on September 17, 2013, at 14:55:44

> Thank you, Blueberry - that is very helpful. I am staying at a low dose, as you suggested, and plan to give it a months-long trial because it does have so many neuroprotective properties. So far, I don't notice anything, positive or negative.

It can sometimes take 3 - 6 months for NAC (n-acetylcysteine) to produce results when treating depression. If you are having no adverse effects, it might makes sense to continue treatment beyond one month.


- Scott

 

Re: Redirect: n-acetyl-cysteine Dr. Bob

Posted by Twinleaf on September 18, 2013, at 0:05:07

In reply to Redirect: n-acetyl-cysteine, posted by Dr. Bob on September 17, 2013, at 0:39:53

NAC is now being used as a primary treatment in major medical centers, not as an adjunct or alternative medication. I wanted as many people as possible to know about it; so few posters visit "Alternative", so placing it there makes the message much less effective.

 

I agree with Twinleaf (nm)

Posted by herpills on September 18, 2013, at 0:05:08

In reply to Re: Redirect: n-acetyl-cysteine Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on September 17, 2013, at 5:42:21

 

Re: Redirect

Posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2013, at 0:16:19

In reply to Re: Redirect: n-acetyl-cysteine Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on September 18, 2013, at 0:05:07

> I wanted as many people as possible to know about it; so few posters visit "Alternative", so placing it there makes the message much less effective.

1. There's still a post on Medication.

2. What about increasing visits to Alternative rather than posting about complementary and alternative treatments on Medication?

Bob


 

Re: Redirect Dr. Bob

Posted by Twinleaf on September 18, 2013, at 7:26:40

In reply to Re: Redirect, posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2013, at 0:16:19

Perhaps I was not sufficiently clear in the point I was trying to make. NAC is now considered PRIMARY, not a complementary or alternative treatment. As such, it should be on the Medications page.

 

Re: Redirect

Posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2013, at 22:23:50

In reply to Re: Redirect Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on September 18, 2013, at 7:26:40

> Perhaps I was not sufficiently clear in the point I was trying to make. NAC is now considered PRIMARY, not a complementary or alternative treatment. As such, it should be on the Medications page.

Considered by whom? Maybe I jumped to a conclusion.

Bob

 

Re: Redirect Dr. Bob

Posted by Twinleaf on September 19, 2013, at 6:19:49

In reply to Re: Redirect, posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2013, at 22:23:50

Two which have been mentioned are the departments of psychiatry at Harvard and George Washington. A friend lent me an article about the growing importance of NAC as a primary treatment in both schizophrenia and depressive illness, but I'm afraid I returned it without noting the journal!

 

Re: Redirect Twinleaf

Posted by sigismund on September 19, 2013, at 17:16:23

In reply to Re: Redirect Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on September 19, 2013, at 6:19:49

That thing about how a paracetamol OD can leave the skeleton and form of your liver intact, consisting only of dead cells, and how NAC can protect against that is quite striking.

 

Re: Redirect

Posted by Dr. Bob on September 19, 2013, at 20:58:32

In reply to Re: Redirect Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on September 19, 2013, at 6:19:49

> Two which have been mentioned are the departments of psychiatry at Harvard and George Washington.

Could you link to, or forward to me, something from them? Thanks,

Bob

 

Re: Redirect Dr. Bob

Posted by twinleaf on September 19, 2013, at 21:05:51

In reply to Re: Redirect, posted by Dr. Bob on September 19, 2013, at 20:58:32

I believe Harvard was mentioned in this thread. A psychiatrist on the faculty of GW mentioned to me the renewed interest in NAC as a primary treatment for schizophrenia and MDD.

 

Re: n-acetyl-cysteine Dr. Bob

Posted by twinleaf on September 19, 2013, at 21:09:22

In reply to Re: n-acetyl-cysteine Twinleaf, posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 0:39:00

Scott mentioned its use at Harvard in his second post to this thread, above.

 

Re: Redirect

Posted by Dr. Bob on September 21, 2013, at 0:58:24

In reply to Re: n-acetyl-cysteine Dr. Bob, posted by twinleaf on September 19, 2013, at 21:09:22

> Scott mentioned its use at Harvard in his second post to this thread, above.

OK. But being recommended at Harvard doesn't necessarily mean it's mainstream. And it's listed as a complementary health approach by the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine:

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/flu/ataglance.htm

Bob

 

Re: Redirect Dr. Bob

Posted by Twinleaf on September 21, 2013, at 22:14:16

In reply to Re: Redirect, posted by Dr. Bob on September 21, 2013, at 0:58:24

No, of course not. But I think there should be room on Babble for both points of view: traditionally, NAC has been considered an adjunct only, as you say, but there are a number of professionals who are recognizing its value as a mainstream neuroprotective agent. Both views are valid. I feel that I have steadily tried to respect your views, even when they differ from mine, but you do not do the same for me. It's so disappointing and disheartening to be repeatedly singled out for such negative treatment. It is becoming a waste of time for me.


Go forward in thread:


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.