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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by SLS on August 10, 2013, at 11:04:14
In reply to Re: Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder, posted by Lamdage22 on August 10, 2013, at 9:41:46
> My medication will be 300mg Seroquel ONLY.
Minocycline.
It is a substance with many properties, including efficacy to treat schizophrenia. It might go together with NAC to treat negative and depressive symptoms. It was first approved as an antibiotic. It has since demonstrated anti-inflammatory, neuroprotective, and antiglutamatergic properties.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=minocycline+schizophrenia
Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on August 10, 2013, at 11:10:20
In reply to Re: Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder, posted by Lamdage22 on August 10, 2013, at 10:05:22
> http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178072
>
> Does anyone look through the jungle of hypotheses and stuff?
>
> What is celebrex? Might it replace an Antipsychotic?Celebrex (celecoxib) is a NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory) that is normally used to treat arthritis and some other types of painful conditions.
As an aside, NAC can take several months to work.
- Scott
Posted by Tomatheus on August 10, 2013, at 16:24:16
In reply to Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder, posted by Lamdage22 on August 10, 2013, at 9:40:56
> Anything that hits 5ht1a?
One study (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9401954) found that graviola (Annona muricata) activates 5HT1A receptors. I haven't taken graviola myself, partially because I haven't been impressed by the reviews that I've read from those who've taken the herb.
The supplements that you listed for negative symptoms are also among the first that come to my mind for combating such symptoms. Some of the first alternative treatments that come to my mind for mood elevation include St. John's Wort, fish oil, B vitamins, vitamin D, Rhodiola rosea, l-tryptophan, 5-HTP, l-tyrosine, and l-phenylalanine. There's also SAM-e, but I've read that it can send individuals with bipolar disorder into a manic or hypomanic state, and I'm not sure if it's regulated as a supplement or as a medicine in Germany. Some of the supplements that I mentioned may interact with certain medications, which is one reason why I would discuss any plans that you may have for taking supplements with a medical professional before you decide to take them. I didn't experience any long-term benefits from any of the supplements that I mentioned here, but individual results with supplements are said to vary. Again, the supplements that I mentioned here are the first that come to my mind as mood elevators, and you may want to discuss some of them with your naturopath or another medical professional, but I can't guarantee that the supplements that I mentioned will be effective mood elevators or free of unwanted effects, especially if you take them with medications.
So, in closing, I'd like to say good luck with your treatment, but please do be careful.
T.
Posted by Hugh on August 10, 2013, at 17:07:08
In reply to Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder, posted by Lamdage22 on August 10, 2013, at 9:40:56
Check out these sites:
http://digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C447441.html
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01242371
These two strains of probiotics are available in a product called USANA Probiotic Plus.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 6:39:42
In reply to Re: Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder, posted by Hugh on August 10, 2013, at 17:07:08
Interesting. What i wanna do for now is:
I wanna take the Lithium Orotate at 10mg elemental lithium
I wanna take a Magnesium Product (whats a good dosage?)I hear they are both chemicals with calming, stabilizing and mild antidepressant effects.
Then i want to take "Relora Plus" http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006U90TOC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3LS9RMBKLIJVP
Ingredients are the B-Vitamins in bioactive forms and two herbs.Then i am looking into both Glycine and Sarcosine(n-methylglycin). And other nmda modulating things.
I dont know about NAC.. since it send me a bit overboard once. I may end up taking 600mg for detox purposes.
Then i want to take L-Tryptophan.
And 300mg Seroquel of course. No need to experiment.
Criteria for a Supplements to jump on board of my treatment schedule are first and foremost that they do not require me to take a higher Antipsychotic dosage. And that they work in a calm, mild and pleasant fashion and DO NOT DESTABILIZE.
I will of course only experiment with these substances. One at a time. Otherwise i wont know what helps.
I will take Lithium Orotate without a worry or second guess. I dont care. Studies show Lithium in water supply reduce violence. Violence against self&others starts in the head so it must be doing something at that level.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 7:14:56
In reply to Re: Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder, posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 6:39:42
I have serious trouble finding Sarcosine (N-Methylglycin) online.
I want to experiment with Glycine, which i found online as a powder (AFFORDABLE! kind of). Still pretty expensive.But Sarcosine (N-methylglycin) is a bummer. Nothing on UK Amazon.
Any other nmda site substances worth looking into?
Thank you!Scott, im not a doc but i dont approve of taking an antibiotic for that reason. If they make a non-antibiotic substance that does the same thing, alright maybe. But like this? I decline because i dont know what it will do to me long term.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 7:27:46
In reply to Nmda agonists: Schizo-affective, posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 7:14:56
Can i take one 600mg NAC tablet every other day and still reap the benefits of detoxing heavy metals?
Or does NAC need to be taken daily? Scott, what u think?
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 8:33:45
In reply to Re: Nmda agonists: Schizo-affective, posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 7:27:46
Does it promote EMS? Dangerous? Or was that just that japanese company that had unwanted chemicals in it?
Whats a good Dosage? It seems to me that 3 grams/day divided into two doses is good.
One upon wakenig and an hour before breakfast. One 2,5 h after lunch. Both 1,5g doses.
Also i read that it is good to take it on a schedule to not get too much of some enzyme that inhibits Tryptophans effects.I read for first 3 weeks this Schedule is good:
Day 1-3 ON 3g
Day 4 OFF
Day 5-6 ON 3g
Day 7 OFF
Then for maintenance:
Day 1-2 OFF
Day 3 ON 3g
Day 4-5 OFF
Day 6 ON 3g
Day 7 OFFIs this true?
Also concerning Nmda: Glycin and Sarcosine.If i combine the two, prolly lower the dosage a bit in both right? I think i will try one after the other and then see whats better and combine them in some way, if they really are both helpful.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 8:47:37
In reply to Is L-tryptophan dangerous? Tryptophan help pls., posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 8:33:45
Do the 3 Amino Acids i want to take: Tryptophane, Glycine and Sarcosine inhibit eachother when taken at the same time?
Please help me out with a dosing schedule.
Id take all the three of them in the morning 1h b4 breakfast.
Then Tryptophane and Sarcosine 2,5 h after lunch and the second dose of Glycine in the evening.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 9:44:15
In reply to Re: Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder, posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 6:39:42
Empty Stomach 1h b4 breakfast:
Glycine, Sarkosin, Tryptophane (Wednesday and Saturday)
With breakfast:
1x Lithium Orotate 5mg
1x Magnesium Citramate 150mg
1x Relora Plus (Thorne)
2x Basic Nutrients V (Thorne)
1x NAC 600mg (Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday)With lunch:
1x Lithium Orotate 5mg
1x Magnesium Citramate 150mg
1x Relora Plus (Thorne)2,5h past lunch:
Sarcosine, Tryptophane (Wednesday and saturday)
Dinner:
1x Basic Nutrients V
Bedtime:
300mg Seroquel, Glycine.
I will add Lithium Orotate, Magnesium and Basic Nutrients V hopefully immedieately. Dont know because i have to ask my dear dear doctor.Anyway. I will do this one after another for the most part to see the effects.
Dont know exactly in what order but will figure out.
Posted by Tomatheus on August 11, 2013, at 21:51:34
In reply to Re: Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder, posted by Lamdage22 on August 11, 2013, at 9:44:15
Lamdage,
Have you been in contact with the naturopath in the U.S. that you mentioned earlier in this thread? If so, what thoughts does the naturopath have concerning your plans for supplementation?
T.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 12, 2013, at 13:38:53
In reply to Re: Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder » Lamdage22, posted by Tomatheus on August 11, 2013, at 21:51:34
Hey Tomatheus,
my old Naturopath doesnt do practice anymore so she referred me to another one.
The big question will be, will a Psychiatrist on US soil treat me over the Phone or Skype while im in Germany?
She wont need to prescribe any medications, she just should speak through and monitor my experiments. Experiments sounds soo bad... I mean were talking about pretty safe and mild substances.
Anyway.. We will see.
I havent looked for one of the Psychiatrist AND Naturopath species here in Germany yet. Might be a tough one!?
Greetings!
Posted by Tomatheus on August 12, 2013, at 14:17:27
In reply to Contacted Psychiatrist + Naturopath. Same person, posted by Lamdage22 on August 12, 2013, at 13:38:53
Hi Lamdage,
Thanks for getting back to me. I don't know for sure whether or not the naturopath you're being referred to will be able to treat you while she's in the U.S. and you're in Germany. I mean, I would think that it would be possible for her to oversee your treatment, but I'm not completely sure.
Have you started taking your supplements yet? And are you still in the hospital, or have you been discharged? I think that it would be safest to wait until you talk to the naturopath that you were referred to (or any health-care professional) before starting the supplements, if you haven't already started them. Although I tend to see supplements as generally being milder and safer than prescription drugs, interactions can happen. I actually once had a really intense bad reaction when I tried taking a little bit of SAM-e (which I was taking sublingually at the time) with Korean ginseng. Strangely enough, though, I never had problems taking a liquid version of SAM-e with Korean ginseng. But anyway, the reason why I'm telling you this is just to let you know that interactions between supplements can happen, even though supplements may oftentimes be relatively mild in their effects. So, again, please be safe, but good luck.
T.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 13, 2013, at 7:47:13
In reply to Re: Contacted Psychiatrist + Naturopath. Same person » Lamdage22, posted by Tomatheus on August 12, 2013, at 14:17:27
Im still in the hospital until i have my home in the town i grew up in. I dont like Bavaria cuz the state (politically) is huge and the citizen tiny. Also, i dont have my friends there.
I cant do anything in the hospital with supplements. I hope i wont be too depressed. Certainly im not doing drugs anymore except Seroquel.
Or an exiting new AP like Abilify comes up. You know the non-sedating, no weight gain antidepressant type Antipsychotic.
Until then i will stick it out with Seroquel.
Posted by Tomatheus on August 13, 2013, at 14:14:25
In reply to Re: Contacted Psychiatrist + Naturopath. Same person, posted by Lamdage22 on August 13, 2013, at 7:47:13
Hi Lamdage,
Thank you for your response. I hope that the rest of your hospitalization will go at least ok with you taking just the Seroquel, and I also hope that it won't be too much longer before you get out. I think that you have some good supplementation ideas, and I hope that if you do start on a regimen of supplements with your Seroquel after you get out of the hospital that you'll find them to be beneficial.
T.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 14, 2013, at 11:46:13
In reply to Re: Contacted Psychiatrist + Naturopath. Same person » Lamdage22, posted by Tomatheus on August 13, 2013, at 14:14:25
Thx Tomatheus,
always supportive, always appreciated ;)
I think its cool, when they release me from the hospital feeling OK on Seroquel and i have a couple of "Jokers" in my hands.. to hopefully feel super OK;)
Im looking forward to furnishing my home. Its already furnished so basically a pillow and comforter and im good to go. But of course i wanna be comfortable in there, so it needs some work and im looking forward to do it.
And im doing a test when im on Seroquel only for driving. If that goes well im getting a car, a bike.. gosh im looking forward to it.
And some sort of computer-database type job. Nothing fancy, just staying busy and being social.:) So thank God, some of this "feeling a whole bit better" stayed with me!
I love being back with my old friends.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 15, 2013, at 8:57:49
In reply to Re: Contacted Psychiatrist + Naturopath. Same person » Lamdage22, posted by Tomatheus on August 13, 2013, at 14:14:25
Alright the Zyprexa therapy is starting to really take its toll. Bin in bed all morning long today!
Lack of drive and detrimental effect on daily structure are my complaints. Now that i dont take Parnate in an amount worth mentioning anymore, the bed is magnetic for me.
Magically i end up in bed with no desire to do anything.
Unfortunately i didnt catch my doctor today.. He was like "yeah after the weekend we can reduce it by 2.5. Im not doing that. Zyprexa is harmful to my mental health at this point and i decline 7.5 tonight to take only five. Im not on this sh*t for more than another week, even if my doctor does a handstand infront of me!I hope he will stay professional and help me. I am compliant with Seroquel at no more than 300 and, pretty much non-compliant to everything else.
Id try prazosin for nightmaires thats about it.
I will do the supplements. Think its a good decision.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 16, 2013, at 13:38:47
In reply to Refusing to continue Zyprexa, posted by Lamdage22 on August 15, 2013, at 8:57:49
Wohoo, Doc threatened to kick me out cuz i reduced Zyprexa on my own...
At the same time he threatens to kick me out if i dont go to the therapies.. Which clearly Zyprexa doesnt help with.
Im sorry, but they are all the same and they all like to lick butthole!
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 16, 2013, at 13:41:01
In reply to Re: Refusing to continue Zyprexa, posted by Lamdage22 on August 16, 2013, at 13:38:47
I dont give too much of a sh*t.
A good friend from SD Ymca told me: "Take sh*t from no one"
I want to honor this advice, because it is good.
Posted by Lao Tzu on August 18, 2013, at 11:01:33
In reply to Refusing to continue Zyprexa, posted by Lamdage22 on August 15, 2013, at 8:57:49
I have schizophrenia too. It is difficult to take the medicine when you are still sick. I've been stable for about 8 years now, and in the beginning I was very non-compliant with taking Risperdal tablets. What helped me was this: My doctor insisted that I be given Risperdal Consta injections every two weeks. It releases medicine into your system slowly and gently, not like the pills do. I was compliant with this, and within a year I was stable. Eventually, I went on the pills and I take them everyday without fail. Then I started the nutritional supplements later as I was getting better. Today, I am almost recovered. Still have some negative symptoms though, and my doctor told me about Clozaril. Supposed to help a lot with negative symptoms. The only drawback to this med is you have to get regular blood tests. So I just wanted to tell you what helped me get through this difficult time in my life. First, you must stabilize on some medication, then try the supplements, including a lot of B vitamins, fish oil, vitamins C and E, etc. I hope this was helpful to you.
Lao
Posted by Lao Tzu on August 18, 2013, at 11:07:51
In reply to Supplements for Schizo-affective disorder, posted by Lamdage22 on August 10, 2013, at 9:40:56
Yes, glycine, sarcosine, or serine might help. I haven't had great success with glycine, however. Get stabilized on antipsychotic medicine, the long-acting injections which you get every two weeks. I was getting Risperdal Consta. Once you are stabilized, look into the supplements. I take high dosages of B vitamins, Vitamins C and E, and fish oil. These supplements have helped tremendously once you are stabilized on the antipsychotics. Don't be afraid of the injections. They work slowly and gently, as opposed to the pills you have to take everyday. I didn't like the pills. However, once you are stabilized on the injections, you can switch over to the pills later.
Lao
Posted by Tomatheus on August 18, 2013, at 12:14:49
In reply to Re: Refusing to continue Zyprexa, posted by Lao Tzu on August 18, 2013, at 11:01:33
> Still have some negative symptoms though, and my doctor told me about Clozaril. Supposed to help a lot with negative symptoms. The only drawback to this med is you have to get regular blood tests.
Lao,
Let me say first that I always enjoy reading your posts and generally find what you have to say to be helpful and informative. I think that the information that you share with those of us who read messages on the Psycho-Babble alternative forum about medications and supplements is worth reading, and I like to read about the various supplements that you've found to be helpful in the treatment of your psychiatric condition.
I must, however, disagree with your statement that getting regular blood tests is the only drawback of taking Clozaril (clozapine). In addition to being associated with a 1-2 percent incidence of agranulocytosis (which, as you may know, is the reason why regular blood monitoring is required for patients taking Clozaril), Clozaril increases the risk of seizures and diabetes, and also comes with side effects that could potentially include fast or irregular heartbeat, myocarditis, and orthostatic hypotension. The full list of potential side effects from Clozaril is, of course, much longer, and patients considering taking Clozaril, yourself included, should be aware that such side effects are possible before they take the medication.
Here is a list of side effects associated with Clozaril (clozapine) use from drugs.com:
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/clozaril-side-effects.htmlAnd here is some side-effect information from Clozaril's official Web site:
http://www.clozaril.com/info/about/side_effects.jspAs you can see, the potential drawbacks of taking Clozaril (clozapine) are many, and although not everybody taking the medication is going to experience all of the side effects, it is my impression that most (if not all) individuals taking Clozaril have more drawbacks to contend with than just the regular blood tests.
T.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2013, at 13:27:56
In reply to Re: Clozaril » Lao Tzu, posted by Tomatheus on August 18, 2013, at 12:14:49
I am stable on 300mg Seroquel.
Im not getting injections however. The pills are fine with me. Id like my doctor to have as little power over me as possible. You may say im paranoid, schizophrenic and whatever. But im only "paranoid" about mental health personell and no one else.
There are people who dont want your thinking to be free, who dont want your mind to be free. Im not giving them MORE power over me with injections, i am striving to free myself of the grips of psychiatry. I only accept help when the help is agreeable with my dignity. This is a foreign word for many patients, but not for me.
I couldnt trust any PSYCHIATRIST enough to put me on injections, sorry dude. Its called freedom and its kinda cool when you have some.
Seroquel at 300mg does everything an Antipsychotic can do for me with benign side effects. Its really okay.
Clozaril for negative symptoms? Idk, i have personally seen quite the opposite. And this is an understatement. Seroquel is alleged to work against depression at 300mg. Like i said, i have all the med i want with 300mg Seroquel.
As far as meds go, id like to take 1.25 Abilify and 75mg Lamictal AND id like to try Prazosin against my atrocious nightmaires.
But these nightmaires always occur when i change meds. When im stable they are still distressing though. Do i write nightmaires wrong? damit!
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2013, at 13:28:27
In reply to Re: Clozaril, posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2013, at 13:27:56
And i am considered schizo-affective, not schizophrenic.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2013, at 13:36:42
In reply to Re: Clozaril, posted by Lamdage22 on August 18, 2013, at 13:28:27
Lao,
im on Seroquel immediate release and i take 300mg at night.
Is it worth experimenting around with some Seroquel XR?
You say you experience a better more stable effect with the injections, so maybe this would be a compromise...
I dont know if i want to try, my doctor who will split up with me tomorrow suggested to try XR.
I am scared to be more tired. Whats REALLY important for my healing process is, that i have little trouble waking up in the morning, so my med schedule should be designed so that i have as little problems getting up as possible.
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