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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 3 of 3. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lao Tzu on February 15, 2009, at 7:27:54
I have gained consistently good results with a cocktail of 4 supplements to help me fall asleep and get a good night's rest. I've been doing this since last year, and it hasn't failed me yet. I have bipolar/schizophrenia and there are certain vitamins that really help. The four supplements I take at bedtime are Niacin (sustained-release), melatonin, P5P (activated form of B6), and natural Vitamin E. That's all it takes for me. This is how much I take of each at bedtime:
750mg Niacin sustained-release
75mg P5P (B6)
1/4 piece of a 3mg melatonin tablet
400IU of natural vitamin EI have to add that I am taking medications as well, but the medications alone have never been able to fully address my sleep difficulties. It took me a long time to come up with an effective vitamin regimen for sleep. I tried taking melatonin alone, and this seemed to work for a couple months and then one night I couldn't fall asleep. So I knew melatonin supplementation was a key factor, but it wasn't the complete answer. Other nutrients had to be added to it, namely, Niacin, B6, and vitamin E. I had tried taking Valerian a long time ago, but I became tolerant to its effects, and soon it was neither helping me to fall asleep nor helping me to stay asleep for eight hours.
I wanted to add that as long as you take the other three vitamins, you don't need a lot of melatonin. Since it is a hormone, it is a very potent substance. I tried experimenting with different dosages of melatonin. I concluded that 0.75mg, which is just one-fourth of a 3mg strength melatonin tablet, was completely adequate, and I've heard from other sources, including Ray Sahelian's website, that 3mg is probably too much for anyone, especially if you're taking it every night for an extended period of time. Most likely, 3mg of melatonin will be effective for most people, but like myself, you may become tolerant to its sleep-inducing effects over time, and then the instructions say to take a short break from it. Well, duh, what the heck do you do for sleepless nights while you're taking a break from the melatonin so it can regain its effectiveness? The solution is take the other vitamins with just a small amount of melatonin every night. That way you don't really need to go off the melatonin altogether because this can cause anxiety because you depend on something to help you sleep well.
I've heard that tryptophan supplements are very useful for sleep. I have never used tryptophan before, so I don't know how well it works, but it might be a viable alternative if the vitamins and melatonin don't work for you. There are also sleep-inducing medications that activate serotonin, which might be effective for some people. Of course, there are other potent sleep meds like zopiclone and zolpidem which can be very effective.
For me, this vitamin regimen has been very effective. I've tried adding other supplements to it, such as calcium, vitamin D, gaba, taurine, and glycine, but in my experience, these other supplements are not necessary for me. However, they may be helpful for some people. The only other supplement that can help probably would be a calcium supplement, but I don't really need it for sleep. Further, high dose calcium supplementation could potentially add to a hypomanic state in bipolars, so be careful with calcium supplements. I've had problems myself with high doses of calcium.
I've had good results with low dose niacinamide, which works differently than Niacin. However, I can't take niacinamide for extended periods of time because it makes my depression worse. So I stick with the sustained-release Niacin instead, which works better for me. It really depends on what you can tolerate. A little experimentation may be in order in the beginning. I would always recommend starting off at lower dosages and working your way up depending on what you can tolerate. For instance, Niacin. Some people will do well on only 250mg, but others may need higher dosages. 750mg seems perfect for me. B6 is another vitamin that depends on an effective dosage. If you're taking the activated P5P form, 50mg is a good starting point. If you're taking regular B6 (inactivated form), 100mg might be a good starting point. As far as Vitamin E is concerned. it is absolutely essential to take the natural form, which is d-alpha tocopheryl acetate, NOT the dl form, which is synthetic. I've found that at least 300IU is needed to help with sleep, but a 400IU strength softgel works better.
I hope this information is helpful those people who are depressed, bipolar, or schizophrenic. Being stabilized on some medication may improve your sleep, but if medication alone is not the answer, then you might look to your own individual nutritional needs for an answer. I have, and my efforts have paid off. However, it may not be as simple as addressing your nutritional needs. You may have to address any disease state with the proper medication first. The nutrients will probably help a great deal to support your path to wellness.
Posted by Lao Tzu on February 15, 2009, at 7:55:23
In reply to Supplements for sleep, posted by Lao Tzu on February 15, 2009, at 7:27:54
I would like to add a few points of interest. Somebody on this website mentioned that adding fish oil to his/her vitamin regimen greatly improved sleep quality. Correcting a B12 and/or folate deficiency will improve depressive symptoms and may indirectly improve sleep quality. Also, a regular exercise routine is great for improving sleep, especially if you tend to be manic.
Posted by Lao Tzu on March 3, 2009, at 10:02:12
In reply to Supplements for sleep, posted by Lao Tzu on February 15, 2009, at 7:27:54
I've found that adding vitamin B1 100mg at bedtime to the supplements mentioned as well as increasing my intake of fish oil has improved my sleep habits. Also, keeping calcium supplementation to a minimum because in my case too much calcium can interfere with my sleep because it can have a stimulating effect in some people who have been taking it for a while. Initially, when I first started taking calcium, this mineral acted more sedating than stimulating, but now is the exact opposite. So this works for me:
750mg Niacin sustained-release
500IU of natural vitamin E
75mg P5P (vit. B6)
1/4 tablet of melatonin
100mg B1
And increasing your daily fish oil intakeLet me just say that I am schizophrenic, and these supplements are greatly beneficial to me. They may or may not work for you, but it's worth a try.
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