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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by curious1 on October 5, 2008, at 17:22:17
Hi all...I'm pretty new here but have been visiting and reading these boards for years. I have mild depression and social anxiety, GAD, or whatever its called, or just plain anxiety. I have been quietly suffering with these symptoms my whole life...I'm 40 years old.
Paxil solved all my problems when I took it 10 years ago, but I was worried it would poop out and cause me to have more problems in the long run...it also sexually castrated me, so I decided to quit and search for a natural alternative.
In that time I've tried everything, and I do mean everything. I even changed my whole life and went the spiritual/meditiation/NLP/Huna Satsong Yoga etc etc etc route. Didnt watch TV for 4 years straight. Dedicated myself to healing. Which did help some, but not what I was hoping for.
I think I've just recently begun to realize what may be a big cause of all this but wanted to get some feedback from some of you guys to see if I'm gaining the right understandings.
Basically I've come to think it is adrenal exhaustion/stress/fatigue that is a major factor in how I feel/felt. This hypothsis comes as a result of taking many different supplements over the last few years along with realizations of patterns of afternoon lethargy.
A couple years back I discovered fish oil as a potential remedy for my depression/anxiety and started taking Carlsons Finest Fish Oil (650EPA/500DHA per teaspoon) 2 tablespoons a day. The First few days I felt great like this was the key to it all for me. Then a few days later I was even more depressed than ever, but since I knew anti-depressants sometimes make you feel worse before you get better, I kept taking it. Then after about 30 days feeling more depressed than ever, I read an article about high EPA fish oil being the cure for depression and NOT just any fish oil.
So I ran out to the local Apothocary to buy high EPA fish oil. I took 1 high EPA fish oil capsule (450EPA/50DHA) and I instantly felt all my depression vanish. I was the happiest and most joyful Ive been since I can remember. So I kept taking the High EPA fish oil thinking I found my salvation.
But after only a few days I felt I was getting more and more anxious than I have been in a while but I kept taking the high EPA pills anyway. A few days later I got a horrible headache and was very very anxious. Also I was very tired and and all I wanted to do is lay down and sleep. Over the next few days I started having severe headaches, muscle aches, dizziness, low blood pressure, and loss of coordination. I even got a high fever and realized my immune system was weakened.
After doing some research here and on-line, I realized I was having severe symptoms of hypoglycemia. But nowhere did I read that hypoglycemia could weaken my immune system until I stumbled across an article about adrenal related hypoglycemia. I found that weakened or exhausted adrenals do affect the immune system.
So I stopped taking the fish oil and after a few days started feeling better. I was never hypoglycemic (at least not to the massive degree) while taking high DHA fish oil so I concluded that it was just EPA that caused all my negative reactions. I have come to realize later that the DHA somehow protected my brain from hypoglycemic reactions I get from high EPA fish oil, but too much DHA can make me more depressed.
Anyway, I of course started a new search for the answer to all my problems. The next supplement that seemed to help me was innositol. I started taking 5 grams a day and it really did help depression and anxiety for me. It also seemed to give my mind a boost to be able to focus and concentrate on reading/studying etc. But over time inositol seemed to make me over sleep, want to go to bed early, and I would wake up exhausted even after 10 hours of sleep. Exercize became a chore and my lungs seemed lack the necessary air to keep my endurance up.
Throughout my life, even though I would have afternoon mental lethargy most day, my physical energy was always very good if I forced myself to get out and exercise. I would have more endurance than most, but inositol seemed to totally rob me of all physical vitality and strengtheven my libido was zapped out.
So I looked to add something to help with the physical exhaustion and maybe increase my libido. I added Tyrosine, then DLPA, Rhodiola, CQ10, SAMe, Rhibose, Maca, more. Every single one of these seemed to give me a brief return of energy and libido improvement. But in the end they all caused my severe hypoglycemia to return, basically the same reaction that high EPA fish oil gave memigrainy, hypoglycemic reactions.
So my question to any of you out there, have you come across, heard from people/doctors etc how supplements that increase energy (through epinephrine/adrenaline/ or whatever) can make hypoglycemia caused by weak adrenal worse??
Most of what I have read indicates taking tyrosine or other stimulating supplements can help with adrenal issues.
I have read that weak adrenal can cause LOW cortisol levels and that cortisol is needed to help with blood sugar issues so I started taking licorice extract and it seems to helping a little. I also started taking B1 for mood and anxiety and I really think its helping too. Not too stimulating with a mild mood boost and ant-anxiety.
I do plan to see a doctor regarding these issues but am aware that sometimes people in the battlefield know more than doctors sometimes so wanted to get some opinions from real life people. PS-my dad is a retired doctor and I havent even asked him about any of this because I know he has no clue. He was an MD and DO.
Posted by nolvas on October 5, 2008, at 19:35:16
In reply to Adrenals-Hypoglycemia-Stimulating Supplements, posted by curious1 on October 5, 2008, at 17:22:17
This site is worth a read, there's a couple of things I don't agree with, such as taking salt but mostly it's sound advice.
http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/adrenal_fatigue.cfm
Also this book is well worth a read as well >
Posted by Jimmyboy on October 6, 2008, at 20:28:32
In reply to Re: Adrenals-Hypoglycemia-Stimulating Supplements, posted by nolvas on October 5, 2008, at 19:35:16
This does not answer most of the questions that you raised , but FYI taking Borage Oil ( GLA ) made pretty severe anxiety/and panic attacks stop as soon as I started taking it and it have not had one since. For me it has been a godsend for a formerly crippling anxiety problem.
Posted by curious1 on October 7, 2008, at 14:49:14
In reply to Re: Adrenals-Hypoglycemia-Stimulating Supplements, posted by Jimmyboy on October 6, 2008, at 20:28:32
> This does not answer most of the questions that you raised , but FYI taking Borage Oil ( GLA ) made pretty severe anxiety/and panic attacks stop as soon as I started taking it and it have not had one since. For me it has been a godsend for a formerly crippling anxiety problem.
Great jimmy! Could you please tell me how much and when you take GLA? Other supplements too? I have read your posts in this forum, but not sure if I have the most recent information.
Weird part for me is that any stimulating supplement makes me very hypoglycemic...like epeinephrine/epinephrine somehow creates super insulin sensitivity or something.
I'm gonna go on, and stay on this time, a no carb/sugar diet and see if that helps the low blood sugar issues.
Thanks for your input :)
Thank you Nolvas for the links as well..
Posted by nolvas on October 8, 2008, at 19:34:06
In reply to Re: Adrenals-Hypoglycemia-Stimulating Supplements, posted by curious1 on October 7, 2008, at 14:49:14
That's no problem :) Please do bear in mind that Jimmyboy's experience is anecdotal, but still a valuable piece of information to explore regardless.
I haven't found any research data on GLA and anxiety/panic, and this is why I haven't focused my attention on this Omega 6 fatty acid as of yet. Supplements are in my opinion more difficult to evaluate than pharmaceuticals. The extreme anxiety I suffered for the past 3 or 4 years, has largely receded this year. I have changed my diet to include some meat much to my chagrin, and I also supplemented with zinc and selenium to try and help with an aggravated prostatitis condition. I could attribute the recession of my anxiety symptoms to the zinc and selenium, and there is evidence that these minerals feature in anxiety states, but I could never be 100% sure.
There are more questions than answers naturally, for example selenium will probably only help with anxiety conditions if there is a deficiency of selenium. Therefore if I felt sure selenium worked for me then I could recommend it to others for whom it might well have zero effect.
The key here and what I have learned over the years is that supplements are very difficult to evaluate in terms of effectiveness and even harder to do so without research to back them up in terms of specific health complaints. My advice is take in as many factors as you can about your lifestyle, behaviour and diet and systematically work within the limits of research and possibly your own personal beliefs about particular supplements.
Anecdotal evidence is very powerful, as sociable beings we are inclined to believe in something strongly if another person has had a positive experience. Anecdotal evidence in my opinion clouds our judgement. I use this forum as a means of support and also because there can be some very useful information posted and gives other avenues to explore. I can't say I totally ignore the anecdotal evidence posted on this forum which is frankly overwhelming but I also give it the respect it deserves.
Anyway I just wanted to impart my opinion, there's quite likely people who have gained from the anecdotal evidence on this forum, and we must be grateful for it, we just have to see how it fits in the scheme of things in helping us to get better.
I do hope any one reading this doesn't think I am chastising their experiences, that's certainly not my intention and not my right do so. Your experience is your experience and it's as valid as anyone else's and no one should tell you your experience is not valid.
Posted by curious1 on October 8, 2008, at 21:31:54
In reply to Re: Adrenals-Hypoglycemia-Stimulating Supplements, posted by nolvas on October 8, 2008, at 19:34:06
Yes nolvas...im sure many of us here understand what you are saying completely. But we all keep keeping on until the riddle is solved.
BTW, you mention selenium. I never tried it, but when I took Chromium combined with inositol, the chromium seemed to diminish my anxiety quite a lot...but chromium with no inositol seemed to make me more depressed.
Too bad insositol makes me very physically lazy and tired. This might be due to some kind of adrenal/blodd sugar thing.
I'm gonna go get some test to check adrenal/thyroid/blood sugar issues. I hope I dont get more confused by trying the "test" method.
More confusion huh?
Posted by Jimmyboy on October 14, 2008, at 21:10:38
In reply to Re: Adrenals-Hypoglycemia-Stimulating Supplements, posted by curious1 on October 7, 2008, at 14:49:14
Hi Curious,
I personally take 1-2 caps of NOW brand Borage oil (1050 mgs). I usually take this in the morning or early afternoon. I also take other suupplements that are supposed to help convert the GLA to the benefifcial prostaglandin E-1. These are Vitamin C , Vit B6, Magnesium and zinc. I take moderate doses of these , usually whenever its convenient. But I try to remember to take these every day.
Like I said, for *me* this has helped a whole lot
And yes : ) this is "anecdotal evidence" - ( isn't eveything in this board anecdotal??) - I hope you can pass on the same positive anecdotal evidence to someone else in the future !
Good luck to you!
This is the end of the thread.
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