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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Gadman on June 1, 2008, at 6:58:08
Hello All,
I was wondering if anyone had any firm information regarding the liver toxicity issues claimed to be against the use of Kava Kava.
I have found myself using Kava Kava on a daily basis as it does appear to be helping with my GAD quite a bit. I have been having one drink nightly that I make out of Kava Root Powder that I buy on-line. The potency of my drink is probably considering moderate to strong. I find this particular regime extremely beneficial to help curb my Anxiety woes for that evening.
My question is: Can anyone give me some scientific studies that have been done to prove that this would be harmful to my liver (or vice versa)? Doing a google on this topic produces mixed results.
Thanks all... I really enjoy my nightly Kava drink but do not want to continue if I am at any risk of shortening my lifespan by any length of tie.
Posted by nolvas on June 1, 2008, at 7:52:12
In reply to Kava Kava health concerns truth, posted by Gadman on June 1, 2008, at 6:58:08
I take Kava Kava regularly. Here's my opinion and I think a reasonable opinion regarding Kava safety.
Fifty people had liver complications and/or fatalities using Kava Kava according to Wikipedia. Most if not all of these people were also consuming other drugs and alcohol.
Now the hypocrisy, valium and especially paracetamol (acetaminophen) kill far far more people and there's no evidence that Kava has caused fatalities. Have benzodiazepines and pain killers been banned? No! There's plenty of other very toxic drugs out there that are prescribed which in my opinion are far more deadly than Kava. Drug companies are the most powerful companies in the world more so than even oil companies, if they want Kava to have a bad press they will get what they want. Kava is obviously taken by a much smaller population than pain killers, so that has to be taken in to account. However my point is that there are countless other legal drugs which are responsible for many fatalities per year and by the same reasoning they should be banned if Kava is.
My advice is if you feel that Kava helps you and you use Kava in the tradition sense and also don't go to excess then you shouldn't experience any problems. I'm not saying Kava is 100% safe and that you should take it, I'm saying that I personally believe Kava is safe as far as I can deduce and the reason it has a bad reputation is to do with commercial politics. We live in a corrupt world it's how we deal with it that matters.
Posted by bleauberry on June 1, 2008, at 20:16:16
In reply to Re: Kava Kava health concerns truth, posted by nolvas on June 1, 2008, at 7:52:12
I studied up on this topic about a year ago. I do not have at my fingertips everything I gathered. But generally the outcome was something like this:
Kava kava could not be directly blamed for liver toxicity in most of the cases. There were other confounding factors in most all of them.
The number of people who had problems compared to the number who use Kava regularly is a tiny fraction. Far higher percentages of people experience liver probs with common things like Cymbalta, Depakote, etc etc.
Native islanders who use kava regularly have a near zero history of any complications, other than the leopard skin thing with high dose chronic longterm use.
The very same beaurocrats that turn a blind eye to the complications of many FDA drugs are the same ones that go ballistic over just a hint of risk in some natural product.
With all the above in mind, I have no doubt that at least a handful of people in the entire world may indeed have gotten some liver thing from kava. Or aspirin. Or an antibiotic. Or st johns wort. Or oregano. Orjust about anything. You know, you can dramatically change the way the liver operates by drinking too much grapefruit juice. The numbers with FDA meds are probably multitudes higher. IMO.
Posted by Gadman on June 2, 2008, at 9:26:45
In reply to Re: Kava Kava health concerns truth, posted by bleauberry on June 1, 2008, at 20:16:16
Thanks... This is good information. I truly believe Kava has had some positive effects on me since I started the usage approximately 1 month ago. I have tried the capsule form years ago with no results, but making a beverage out of the root has made all of the difference in the world.
> I studied up on this topic about a year ago. I do not have at my fingertips everything I gathered. But generally the outcome was something like this:
>
> Kava kava could not be directly blamed for liver toxicity in most of the cases. There were other confounding factors in most all of them.
>
> The number of people who had problems compared to the number who use Kava regularly is a tiny fraction. Far higher percentages of people experience liver probs with common things like Cymbalta, Depakote, etc etc.
>
> Native islanders who use kava regularly have a near zero history of any complications, other than the leopard skin thing with high dose chronic longterm use.
>
> The very same beaurocrats that turn a blind eye to the complications of many FDA drugs are the same ones that go ballistic over just a hint of risk in some natural product.
>
> With all the above in mind, I have no doubt that at least a handful of people in the entire world may indeed have gotten some liver thing from kava. Or aspirin. Or an antibiotic. Or st johns wort. Or oregano. Orjust about anything. You know, you can dramatically change the way the liver operates by drinking too much grapefruit juice. The numbers with FDA meds are probably multitudes higher. IMO.
Posted by Lao Tzu on June 2, 2008, at 14:11:16
In reply to Kava Kava health concerns truth, posted by Gadman on June 1, 2008, at 6:58:08
Here is a website you may be interested in: www.annieappleseedproject.org/kavaisitsafe.html
There have been about 30 reported cases of hepatotoxicity due to kava kava. However, that's such a small percentage. And what they don't tell you is the dosages of kava these people were taking. They probably abused it. It may be a risk to take kava for a very long time, but there are other factors like other prescription or OTC drugs you are taking, whether you drink alcohol a lot is a big factor. There aren't a lot of excellent substances for GAD, and kava is one of the best natural remedies for this condition. The only suggestions I would have is to watch your daily dosage, find out if you are taking any other substances that pose the risk of liver damage, watch out for signs of hepatotoxicity like dark urine and yellowing of the eyes, and get routine blood tests from your doctor to check your liver enzymes.
Posted by WickedGirl on June 18, 2008, at 12:33:02
In reply to Re: Kava Kava health concerns truth, posted by Lao Tzu on June 2, 2008, at 14:11:16
I agree with all of the above posters and would like to add some words. In researching this topic for several years, the number of reported cases that I came across was actually something like 12. A ridiculously low number. I got this number from the actual FDA site, but this was some years back.
The thing to watch out for when taking ANY herb, supplement or medication is do you have any liver problems at all? If you do not, is there a history of this type of problem anywhere in your family? You may want to have liver enzyme/functioning tests of some type done to check the state of your liver in general before embarking on any type of daily med/supp regimen and then once again later to monitor at some point. That being said, I have taken supps and herbs for over twenty years, including Kava, and I have never had one single problem. I believe this is because I always purchase from reputable companies (not just the cheapest), I do not exceed safe dosages ever (based on my own years of research), and I never mix any herb with Ibuprofen or Tylenol products (or alcohol for that matter). Mixing herbs with a known hepato-toxin such as Tylenol is just asking for trouble.
I love Kava. It is extremely effective and seems to have no side effects at all for me (which is more than I can say for prescription medication that I have ever tried).
Posted by linkadge on June 23, 2008, at 20:48:02
In reply to Re: Kava Kava health concerns truth, posted by WickedGirl on June 18, 2008, at 12:33:02
Kava was a good herb. I like conspiracy theories. Perhaps regulatory officials believed too many people were getting effective prescription free anxiety relief.
Kava worked better for me than a benzo. It killed the anxiety in a positive way not in a way that I would regret ingesting the substance.
I wouldn't dream of taking a benzo before a difficult exam for fear of cognative impairment, but I found a little bit of kava took the edge off and usually improved performance.
Good supplements like that come around once in a lifetime. Too bad.
Linkadge
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