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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 4, 2007, at 6:06:26
Okay, whilst we're here...
Do you think its better to eat lots of fruit and veg even if they're non-organic, hoping that the benefits of eating such food (anti cancer, nutrients etc etc) outweight any risks associated with pesticides?
Or would you think that the risk of pesticides etc too great and that you'd only eat organic stuff even if it meant you had to eat it less frequently?
Of course, in an ideal world I'd only eat organic, but (I don't mind paying the extra for it) here (in the wilds of Fenno-Scandinavia) there isn't much going in the way of organic fruit and veg. Should just live life on the edge and give in?
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 4, 2007, at 8:49:45
In reply to Organic VS non-organic fruit + veg, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 4, 2007, at 6:06:26
> Okay, whilst we're here...
>
> Do you think its better to eat lots of fruit and veg even if they're non-organic, hoping that the benefits of eating such food (anti cancer, nutrients etc etc) outweight any risks associated with pesticides?The benefits outweigh the risks. By a large margin. You should consider prep methods, however, that minimize any potential exposures. Any toxic residue does tend to lodge on the surfaces, so washing and peeling can be quite effective. You have to take each on a case by case basis, though. There's no point in washing or peeling potatoes, for example, as we don't eat the above ground portion, the foliage, which is often heavily sprayed.
> Or would you think that the risk of pesticides etc too great and that you'd only eat organic stuff even if it meant you had to eat it less frequently?
That's an excessive reaction. No carrots is worse than commercial carrots, for example. Each case that you can consider leads to a similar conclusion.
> Of course, in an ideal world I'd only eat organic, but (I don't mind paying the extra for it) here (in the wilds of Fenno-Scandinavia) there isn't much going in the way of organic fruit and veg. Should just live life on the edge and give in?
>
> Kind regards
>
> MeriEat what you can obtain. Unless it is marked "Product of Chernobyl", of course.
Lar
Posted by Declan on March 4, 2007, at 12:24:31
In reply to Re: Organic VS non-organic fruit + veg » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Larry Hoover on March 4, 2007, at 8:49:45
Freshness is important too.
There was a report that some fruit and veg here was (I'm taking a wild guess) around a year old by the time we got to eat it, and then it's gas ripened and all that stuff.
Can you buy directly off the actual farmers?
Do you have farmers in Finland?
Where are the fruit and vegies grown?
Greenhouses?
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 4, 2007, at 12:31:43
In reply to Re: Organic VS non-organic fruit + veg » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Larry Hoover on March 4, 2007, at 8:49:45
Well thats good to know and puts my mind at rest. Hmmm. Well. I'll get buying then! Thanks, Lar.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 4, 2007, at 12:39:31
In reply to Re: Organic VS non-organic fruit + veg, posted by Declan on March 4, 2007, at 12:24:31
Yeah I heard this too, and frozen veg and fruit is actually more 'fresh' and therefore has more nutrients than even the supposedly 'fresh' stuff. Yeah I mean most of the fruit nowadays is flown around the world by the time we get to eat it....
> Can you buy directly off the actual farmers?
I used to (well that was in Britland), there was this lovely farmers market in Bath I used to go to and there was this one particulary nice lady who simply owned an organic farm nearby and sold her produce - her salad bags were lush, they were full of things like fresh garlic leaves and random (edible) foliage that just grew naturally on her farm....
> Do you have farmers in Finland?
Yes, although I'm not sure what they grow:
Snow? Ice? There's nothing even remotely green out there at the moment. I think traditionally they're supposed to grow oats and potatoes. I'm not sure, Finland isn't really famed for its farmed produce. There's lots of wild berries through in the summer.> Where are the fruit and vegies grown?
> Greenhouses?Dunno, probably. Most stuff (well particulary now ie non growing season) is shipped/flown. Although Finns are proud consumers of Finnish cucumbers and tomatoes I notice. Which clearly implies greenhouses!!!
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Declan on March 4, 2007, at 13:37:09
In reply to Re: Organic VS non-organic fruit + veg » Declan, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 4, 2007, at 12:39:31
In summer you can live on freshly picked berries.
We are lucky and have a blueberry farm just down the road where we can buy them in kilo bags.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 4, 2007, at 14:14:29
In reply to Re: Organic VS non-organic fruit + veg » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Declan on March 4, 2007, at 13:37:09
> In summer you can live on freshly picked berries.
Yeah I suppose I can. My mother picks a freezer full of wild bilberries and wild raspberries and that lasts her the whole year. I'm too lazy.
Posted by Declan on March 4, 2007, at 16:20:15
In reply to Re: Organic VS non-organic fruit + veg, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 4, 2007, at 14:14:29
I'm lazy too, but could be persuaded to pick a freezer full of wild bilberries and rasperries.
They sell here as a special High Antioxidant Berry Mix.
Posted by Declan on March 4, 2007, at 16:21:39
In reply to Re: Organic VS non-organic fruit + veg, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 4, 2007, at 14:14:29
It might be important that berries and fruit ripen on the tree or vine.
The bananas here are something else. You can taste the gas, I think.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 5, 2007, at 8:36:34
In reply to Re: Organic VS non-organic fruit + veg, posted by Declan on March 4, 2007, at 16:20:15
> I'm lazy too, but could be persuaded to pick a freezer full of wild bilberries and rasperries.
Its not the most unpleasant of tasks I do have to say. Although I tend to eat more than I pick :o)
Have a look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:The_fruits_of_our_labour.JPG
I took this pic a couple of summers ago. I kinda scare myself through, when picking berries. There's another certain type of creature that lives in the forest here who is also rather fond of berries!!
Billberries, interestingly, are different from blueberries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billberry
Posted by tealady on March 6, 2007, at 3:41:34
In reply to Re: Organic VS non-organic fruit + veg, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 5, 2007, at 8:36:34
Thanks for the pic.. that's bilberries.. look like blueberries to me. Ah well.
I'd enjoy picking my own berries too, unfortunately Oz govt seems to me 'controlled' by property developers so all fertile land near cities gets rezoned.. another story.
It is good to see that Europe and japan are different and actually keep some agricultural land zones around towns and cities.
Pick some mulberries occasionally..
used to be able to get blackberries but they are under houses now..
Dec there's this organic farm trail north of Sydney I saw on TV.. is that what you do sometimes?
I reckon fresh and unsprayed with pesticides (or minimal if absolutely necessary) has a LOT going for it.. organic even more.
Same with chickens, eggs, milk.. that's one reason I am against that mary river dam. It will flood most of the organic rich farmland nth of BN.. the farmers really have nowhere to go instead...
probably there goes my milk(which I have tried twice).. cleopatra's bath milk (to get past the law on being raw).
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 6, 2007, at 13:15:14
In reply to Re: Organic VS non-organic fruit + veg, posted by tealady on March 6, 2007, at 3:41:34
Well. I can proudly proclaim that Finland has one of the most relaxed rules about land access - its called everyman's (or woman's!) right of way -- you are allowed to hike, camp, pick berries, mushrooms and generally wander about everywhere, as long as there is no damage done and you don't wander about on people's lawns. So even if the whole forest is owned by some er, landowner, they can't stop anyone from wandering over it. Consequently, there aren't many fences around.
I mean, okay, this is Finland, there isn't much out there, except forest, forest and forest, and perhaps a couple of fields and its not exactly crowded here in Finland and when its -20C outside, there aren't too many people wandering about anyway.
But it means you can collect berries/mushrooms from wherever you want (thats part of the law).
have a look:
The age-old concept of everyman’s right gives everyone the basic right to roam freely in the countryside, without needing to obtain permission, no matter who owns or occupies the land. In the sparsely populated Nordic countries everyman’s right has evolved over the centuries from a largely unwritten code of practice to become a fundamental legal right. Everyman’s right does not, however, cover activities which damage the environment or disturb others.
Posted by Bryn on March 9, 2007, at 22:03:37
In reply to 'Everyman's right of way', posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 6, 2007, at 13:15:14
> Well. I can proudly proclaim that Finland has one of the most relaxed rules about land access - its called everyman's (or woman's!) right of way -- you are allowed to hike, camp, pick berries, mushrooms and generally wander about everywhere, as long as there is no damage done and you don't wander about on people's lawns. So even if the whole forest is owned by some er, landowner, they can't stop anyone from wandering over it. Consequently, there aren't many fences around.
You should be proud! That is the way it ought to be. :) It is difficult to live in the U.S., Land of Commodification of Everything.
On that note, as a resident of the U.S., I am very hesitant to eat produce that is not organically grown. Here, one of the only ways one can be sure that a food isn't genetically modified is if it is certified as organic. I do eat nonorganic food, but not on a regular basis. I also know there is very little oversight over non-organic agriculture in the U.S. so that is yet another reason I avoid it.
But I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you didn't already know.
>
> I mean, okay, this is Finland, there isn't much out there, except forest, forest and forest, and perhaps a couple of fields and its not exactly crowded here in Finland and when its -20C outside, there aren't too many people wandering about anyway.
>Congratulations on your beautiful forests. I encourage everyone to be vigilant about forest protection laws and oversight as timber companies are always prowling the globe, looking for new forests to raze. Far too many have been destroyed in my region.
Peace,
Bryn
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