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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Quintal on November 17, 2006, at 21:12:49
I'm planning to participate in an Ayahuasca healing ceremony in Peru after trying nearly all Rx med treatments for my social anxiety and mood disorder. My pdoc has now abandoned me and the GP has no interest in helping me beyond emergency treatment. If anyone else has experience with the vine or Iboga etc I would appreciate some advice?
Q
Posted by Declan on November 18, 2006, at 2:30:14
In reply to Ayahuasca, posted by Quintal on November 17, 2006, at 21:12:49
Many years ago I took both harmine and ibogaine. Harmine was a straight psychedelic, but nice.
Ibogaine was a bit witchy or something (things flying about in peripheral vision).
I have heard remarkable reports of recovery from addiction with iboga which I find difficult to credit but do not disbelieve either.
Going to Peru sounds like an excellent idea.
Posted by nolvas on November 18, 2006, at 2:39:19
In reply to Re: Ayahuasca, posted by Declan on November 18, 2006, at 2:30:14
BBC TV in the UK did a documentary in June 2004 about a heroin addict who took Ibogaine to relieve his addiction. He took it once and apparently was cured. I can't imagine these substances being helpful for anxiety though, as he suffered quite intense anxiety as the drug took effect, it lasted a long time as well.
Posted by Declan on November 18, 2006, at 4:54:06
In reply to Re: Ayahuasca, posted by nolvas on November 18, 2006, at 2:39:19
I've heard of someone who went from 60mg/d methadone to nothing in something like a few weeks with it, which is astonishing.
These claims are not made about the other hallucinogens (not with opiate addiction) so I suppose it is peculiar to ibogaine?
Posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 11:24:29
In reply to Re: Ayahuasca, posted by Declan on November 18, 2006, at 2:30:14
> Many years ago I took both harmine and ibogaine. Harmine was a straight psychedelic, but nice.
> Ibogaine was a bit witchy or something (things flying about in peripheral vision).
> I have heard remarkable reports of recovery from addiction with iboga which I find difficult to credit but do not disbelieve either.
> Going to Peru sounds like an excellent idea.I think Ibogaine needs to be taken in an environment geared towards helping opiate withdrawal to reap the full benefits. I worked with a guy who claimed to have taken Ibogaine in the early nineties and described the effects as being 'like speed'..... I've heard some reports of people using Ayahuasca recreationally for kicks and they just enjoy the psychedelic fireworks and seem to take no insight away from the experience.
It seems to me that you get out what you put with these drugs. They're like mirrors that you can use to see your mind and all your neuroses clearly and accurately if you wish so, and know how to use them properly for this purpose (hence the experinced shaman). That's partly what I'm hoping to do here by researching experiences of people with psychiatric problems who have used them and getting an idea in my mind of what can be expected from the ceremony, and also what I need to do to get what I would like to gain from it.
Did you have a special ritual for your Ibogaine trip Declan? How much harmine did you use and what was the source plant?
Q
Posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 11:41:34
In reply to Re: Ayahuasca, posted by nolvas on November 18, 2006, at 2:39:19
> BBC TV in the UK did a documentary in June 2004 about a heroin addict who took Ibogaine to relieve his addiction. He took it once and apparently was cured. I can't imagine these substances being helpful for anxiety though, as he suffered quite intense anxiety as the drug took effect, it lasted a long time as well.
Thanks for that nolvas.
From what I have read about hallucinogens I fully expect my experience to be terrifying. I don't see how I could work through what I believe are the original sources of my anxiety without feelings of fear, so that doesn't deter me, but I see what you mean. It seems that Ayahuasca or Ibogaine are effective tools for insight, but they are not always cures as such since there is still hard work to be done when return to your ordinary life. The outcome still depends on each person's commitment. I believe the effects of Ibogaine can last for several days when taken in the traditional ritual :-O
Q
Posted by nolvas on November 18, 2006, at 17:34:00
In reply to Re: Ayahuasca, posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 11:41:34
hmm yeah that's the problem, you already expect the experience to be terrifying, a self fulfilling prophecy no doubt. Just convince yourself it will be exhilirating, will open your mind and be educational to a degree you've never imagined :)
Have either of you heard of DMT? That sounds like the craziest hallicinogen known to man. Just look up self transforming machine elves.
Actually here's a link,
It's the most interesting and incredible description of a drug I've ever read. Obviously embellished in language and romanticism but never the less it sounds amazing.
Posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 20:19:45
In reply to Re: Ayahuasca, posted by nolvas on November 18, 2006, at 17:34:00
DMT is one the main active ingredients in Ayahuasca. It is the MAOI alakloids that allow the DMT in Psychotria Viridis leaves to be active orally by preventing breakdown in the gut. You can get pure DMT and smoke it in a crack pipe though, but it is hard to find and illegal.
I first found out about these drugs when I read Daniel Pinchbeck's book 'Breaking Open the Head' www.breakingopenthehead.com which is an eye-opening read if you find these things interesting.
Talking of little people, has anyone else ever met the Zolpidem elves? I may start a thread on this as I'm sure I'm not the only person who has hallucinated on Ambien.
Q
Posted by Declan on November 21, 2006, at 15:29:12
In reply to Ayahuasca DMT » nolvas, posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 20:19:45
The Lord of the Rings elves were OK, but when (perhaps it was?) Terence McKenna started talking about hallucinogens and elves it irritated me.
I never saw any elves.
Posted by Quintal on November 21, 2006, at 16:12:14
In reply to Mixed feelings about elves » Quintal, posted by Declan on November 21, 2006, at 15:29:12
Let's call them little people. I first saw them when I took zolpidem (Stilnoct here in the UK, Ambien in the US). They were erecting a maypole on my quilt cover. It was really beautiful, made of what looked like ribbons of pastel coloured silk. I could hear them cheering and generally having a good time, but I was completely aware that I was hallucinating throughout. My psychiatric nurse said it was a hypnogogic hallucination. This has happened to other people: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20041211/msgs/428114.html
>Terence McKenna started talking about hallucinogens and elves it irritated me.
I never saw any elves.Why? Is this just hallucinogenic jealousy? ;-)
I found Terrance's 'Archaic Revival' very dense and hard to penetrate but I have just ordered 'The Invisible Landscape' which I hope is easier to get in to. Which one did you read?
Posted by Quintal on November 21, 2006, at 16:27:57
In reply to Mixed feelings about elves » Quintal, posted by Declan on November 21, 2006, at 15:29:12
It seems zolidem may act in a similar way to one of the active chemicals in Fly Agaric magic mushrooms, muscimol?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscimol, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolpidem
Q
Posted by Quintal on November 21, 2006, at 16:34:59
In reply to Re: Ayahuasca, posted by nolvas on November 18, 2006, at 17:34:00
Thanks for the link nolvas. It didn't work the first time I tried it. There's a good model of Dr. Timothy Leary's 8 Circuit model of the human brain that I'd been looking for in there.
Q
Posted by daorlando on November 23, 2006, at 11:49:37
In reply to Ayahuasca, posted by Quintal on November 17, 2006, at 21:12:49
You might want to give holotropic breathwork a try first. Works like psychedelics but you're more in control. Also see books like LSD psychotherapy from Stanislav Grof might be useful.
Ayahusca.com also has a good forum and a lot of experienced crowd of people who might advise you better.
Posted by Quintal on November 27, 2006, at 20:10:25
In reply to Re: Ayahuasca, posted by daorlando on November 23, 2006, at 11:49:37
Thank you very much. The holotropic breathwork sounds interesting, but seems very controversial - I like that ;-)
Q
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