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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by psychobot5000 on October 17, 2006, at 13:57:20
Hi,
My fish oil experience has been rather strange and interesting, I would say.
I've only been on it about two weeks or so, this time around, but so far I have experienced:
1: Increased feelings of desire and reward in my life. Everything has more consequence and meaning. It's very much a good thing--in my uneducated way, I speculate that it means increased dopamine (or something) in the nucleus accumbens.
2: No mood elevation. In fact, when I briefly switched to taking Jarrow's 'Max DHA,' which allegedly contains 250mg DHA and 36mg EPA per capsule, my mood definitely became worse. The experience was brief, because I couldn't take it for more than 2 days, but I should mention that my sleep was better those nights.
3: Insomnia, partially controlled with many helpful remedies you fine people have suggested. I suspect that the EPA is responsible for this effect.
4: Fuzzy cognition/difficulty concentrating. Possibly the most annoying and difficult side effect was this--despite better feelings of reward and meaning, I have been less able to manage my thoughts or think clearly. I have read some material on the various modulations fish oil makes in the brain, and I can only suspect that it's due to some lowering of dopamine in the prefrontal cortex, even though the (to me) somewhat confusing evidence seems to suggest the opposite is more likely to be true.
This issue is helped somewhat by methylphenidate, but seems, along with sleep (which I perhaps-justly, perhaps unjustly blamed for difficulties concentrating), to be the main problem. It is certainly rather strange and frustrating to me, as I relish whatever aid the fish oil seems to give to my desire/reward system. I have some modest hope that some 'pure EPA' capsules might give me a better experience, but it seems unlikely.
Anyway, that's my experience. It really seems to bad, since EPA is supposed to be good for concentration, but this is the way it is for me. Anyone else have a similar experience, particularly regarding concentration? Also, thanks to those of you who chimed in with insomnia remedies. Any other ideas for making things better are, of course, much appreciated.
Psychbot
Posted by qqqsimmons on October 19, 2006, at 11:42:02
In reply to Fish oil experience so far, posted by psychobot5000 on October 17, 2006, at 13:57:20
yeah, my initial weeks of fish oil were similar. it really changed my perspective.
two years later i'm still on a low dose (one enzymatic therapy eskimo omega-3 pill per day, 85 mg EPA, 55 mg DHA). one bottle lasts three months.
i read yesterday a study that said fish oil acts an MAO inhibitor (see journal link below) and so increases dopamine...especially, i believe, in the frontal cortex. i think this can lead to the hypomania and scattered thoughts you mention, and i've also experienced.
i'm a little nervous about all this excessive dopamine, and am thinking about trying an ssri again so i can experience increased serotonin without all that dopamine...
link: "Dietary Fish Oil Affects Monoaminergic Neurotransmission and Behavior in Rats"
> Hi,
>
> My fish oil experience has been rather strange and interesting, I would say.
>
> I've only been on it about two weeks or so, this time around, but so far I have experienced:
>
> 1: Increased feelings of desire and reward in my life. Everything has more consequence and meaning. It's very much a good thing--in my uneducated way, I speculate that it means increased dopamine (or something) in the nucleus accumbens.
>
> 2: No mood elevation. In fact, when I briefly switched to taking Jarrow's 'Max DHA,' which allegedly contains 250mg DHA and 36mg EPA per capsule, my mood definitely became worse. The experience was brief, because I couldn't take it for more than 2 days, but I should mention that my sleep was better those nights.
>
> 3: Insomnia, partially controlled with many helpful remedies you fine people have suggested. I suspect that the EPA is responsible for this effect.
>
> 4: Fuzzy cognition/difficulty concentrating. Possibly the most annoying and difficult side effect was this--despite better feelings of reward and meaning, I have been less able to manage my thoughts or think clearly. I have read some material on the various modulations fish oil makes in the brain, and I can only suspect that it's due to some lowering of dopamine in the prefrontal cortex, even though the (to me) somewhat confusing evidence seems to suggest the opposite is more likely to be true.
>
> This issue is helped somewhat by methylphenidate, but seems, along with sleep (which I perhaps-justly, perhaps unjustly blamed for difficulties concentrating), to be the main problem. It is certainly rather strange and frustrating to me, as I relish whatever aid the fish oil seems to give to my desire/reward system. I have some modest hope that some 'pure EPA' capsules might give me a better experience, but it seems unlikely.
>
> Anyway, that's my experience. It really seems to bad, since EPA is supposed to be good for concentration, but this is the way it is for me. Anyone else have a similar experience, particularly regarding concentration? Also, thanks to those of you who chimed in with insomnia remedies. Any other ideas for making things better are, of course, much appreciated.
>
> Psychbot
Posted by pseudoname on October 19, 2006, at 11:54:38
In reply to Fish oil experience so far, posted by psychobot5000 on October 17, 2006, at 13:57:20
Posted by psychobot5000 on October 19, 2006, at 11:59:09
In reply to How much EPA are you taking now? (nm) » psychobot5000, posted by pseudoname on October 19, 2006, at 11:54:38
Posted by psychobot5000 on October 19, 2006, at 12:25:16
In reply to Re: Fish oil experience so far, posted by qqqsimmons on October 19, 2006, at 11:42:02
Regarding excessive dopamine, I'm not sure a 40% increase in one area is that much to worry about--I believe SSRIs generally increase serotonin by more than that.
>
> i read yesterday a study that said fish oil acts an MAO inhibitor (see journal link below) and so increases dopamine...especially, i believe, in the frontal cortex. i think this can lead to the hypomania and scattered thoughts you mention, and i've also experienced.
>
That's a very dense study. I wonder, though, if the part about causing a decrease in dopamine in the striatum. I wonder if that decrease could lead to cognitive difficulties, and if so, wether there's a way to counteract that decrease...Thanks for posting--More studies like that one should be done (and available) --they seem very useful.
Posted by linkadge on October 19, 2006, at 15:56:22
In reply to Re: Fish oil--striatal dopamine, posted by psychobot5000 on October 19, 2006, at 12:25:16
Dopamine in the frontal cortex may also *help* distractability and attention. This is a presumed mechanism of stimulants.
Linkadge
Posted by qqqsimmons on October 22, 2006, at 19:05:07
In reply to Re: Fish oil--striatal dopamine, posted by linkadge on October 19, 2006, at 15:56:22
> Dopamine in the frontal cortex may also *help* distractability and attention. This is a presumed mechanism of stimulants.
>
> Linkadgeyeah, that's my experience. i'm much sharper on fish oil.
any ideas what reduced dopamine in the striatum would do?
Posted by qqqsimmons on October 22, 2006, at 19:37:40
In reply to Re: Fish oil--striatal dopamine, posted by psychobot5000 on October 19, 2006, at 12:25:16
hmm, reduced striatal dopamine receptor binding is associated with social phobia...
[Low dopamine D2 receptor binding potential in social phobia. Am J Psychiatry 2000;157:457]
so my initial guess is that fish oil shouldn't really help with social phobia, where some ssri's may be able to help? found some ssri/striatal dopamine studies out there, but haven't figured them out yet.
where's the professional who can explain this crap?
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