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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pseudoname on October 2, 2006, at 15:21:57
I'm on buprenorphine (Subutex), an opioid, for treatment-resistant depression of 22 years. Bupe's the only thing that has consistently, persistently helped. But it mostly just removes the depressive agony; it doesn't help me with energy, ambition, or bizarre paralyzing fears.
Acupuncture's been on my list to try. After reading "The Instinct to Heal", a book about evidence-supported alternative treatments for depression by David Servan-Schreiber (2004), I decided to give it a go. But almost no one around here practices it, except 2 guys listed in the Yellow Pages.
(1) A general practice M.D. from India. I saw him. He took *NO* history, did not feel my pulse (the tradition Chinese medicine diagnositic), or even go over my current meds! He just asked if it was depression with anxiety or without. (With.) He put 22 needles in, took them out 20 minutes later, and told me to come back in a week.
(2) A few days later I saw the other local guy, chiropractor. He had a long, chatty conversation with me, but still not what I would call a proper medical history. On his intake form, I had checked the box for “Psychiatric problems”. He said — and I quote — “Do you think your depression probably causes those psychiatric problems?” I said, depression IS the psychiatric problem. “Oh, I see.” He was also unfamiliar with the term ECT but advertises that he treats depression as a specialty.
He said it takes 27 years to learn to diagnose properly from the pulse, so he uses a voltimeter or something like that, which produced a computer graph of my meridians that are too active, inactive, or imbalanced. He did not want to use needles on me, insisting that a noninvasive current generating device was better. Well, all I know is that the Harvard study of acupuncture for depression in the "Instinct" book used needles, so I politely refused treatment. He got a little ticked off at me, but consented, with resentment in his face, to using needles. He put 10 needles in, and left them in until they easily pulled out, which was at various times. While we were waiting, he used the current generator at sites around my ears. Wow, that hurt! (Maybe to get back at me? No, I don't think so, LOL.) He wants me to come back 5 more times.
I really have my doubts about him and about the entire experience, but where else can I get any acupuncture at all to try? I can't do it to myself.
Anyway, I didn't and still don't feel one lick different. I may go back to the first guy, or even both guys; I suppose they could cancel each other out… I'll keep you posted.
Posted by Jlx on October 2, 2006, at 17:02:30
In reply to my acupuncture for depression, posted by pseudoname on October 2, 2006, at 15:21:57
> I'm on buprenorphine (Subutex), an opioid, for treatment-resistant depression of 22 years. Bupe's the only thing that has consistently, persistently helped. But it mostly just removes the depressive agony; it doesn't help me with energy, ambition, or bizarre paralyzing fears.
>
> Acupuncture's been on my list to try. After reading "The Instinct to Heal", a book about evidence-supported alternative treatments for depression by David Servan-Schreiber (2004), I decided to give it a go. But almost no one around here practices it, except 2 guys listed in the Yellow Pages.I liked that book too. I had never heard of "cardiac coherence" before and wish I could afford the equipment.
Perhaps there are practitioners in your area that just haven't advertised in the Yellow Pages. This site has a "Find an Alternative Mental Health Practitioner" search function: http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/directory/search.asp
You may also be interested in EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique). http://www.emofree.com/
"EFT is a new discovery that has provided thousands with relief from pain, diseases and emotional issues. Simply stated, it is a unique version of acupuncture except you don't use needles. Instead, you stimulate well established energy meridian points on your body by tapping on them with your fingertips. The process is easy to memorize and is portable so you can do it anywhere. It launches off the EFT Discovery Statement which says...
'The cause of all negative emotions is a disruption in the body's energy system.'
And because our physical pains and diseases are so obviously connected with our emotions the following statement has also proven to be true...
'Our unresolved negative emotions are major contributors to most physical pains and diseases.'"
You can find an EFT practitioner from that site or try doing it yourself, from the free manual. There are also many webpages there too including those specific to some issues such as phobias.
Part of the "full" EFT procedure is a section similar to EMDR, where you roll your eyes around and also alternate humming and counting, to access different hemispheres of the brain. Otherwise, the shortcut EFT is just tapping various parts of the body.
I have been experimenting with EFT now for a couple months and find it fascinating. I'm working on core issues, and not feeling done with those, but for some other things EFT has worked well. For instance, after a reasonable amount of time I couldn't seem to "get over" my 16-year-old dog dying last Christmas. When I tapped on the issue, I discovered some guilt that was stuck too that I wasn't even consciously aware of. A few rounds of tapping, a little crying and in a half hour, it was done. Then I could think about her without feeling too sad and come home from work to an empty house without feeling haunted. I've used it on other things as well, such as anxiety over talking to my boss when I knew it was impending and cravings for types of food that I've decided aren't healthy for me.
Dr. Joseph Mercola is a big promoter of EFT and has his own version and free online manual, complete with some pics to see where to tap: http://www.mercola.com/forms/eftcourse3.htm
JL
Posted by pseudoname on October 2, 2006, at 20:30:45
In reply to Re: my acupuncture for depression » pseudoname, posted by Jlx on October 2, 2006, at 17:02:30
Thanks, JL. Your links are pretty interesting. As is your story.
I tried the alternative list for my state; unfortunately, not enough people are listed. No acupuncturists. My cousin successfully saw an acup. for something; I should ask her who it was.
I was surprised how much I liked "Instinct to Heal". I bought it on a whim. He endorses EMDR-type tapping, too, and his theory about it & EMDR is pretty neat. He says it works best for problems based in memories, like the situation you reported, I think. Sorry about your dog, by the way. They're capable of such absolute love…
I wonder if for EMDR & tapping, at least in some cases, to the extent that it works (in some situations anyway) if it might be part meditative, part distraction, allowing thoughts & feelings that seem too scary by themselves to be experienced in a safer-feeling way. Like holding a child's hand when they see something too exciting for the first time. Then, when one gets through it one time, then the feeling's safely out, and it doesn't have to be avoided, and it flows more fully. I dunno. Just a thought.
Posted by robot on October 11, 2006, at 23:40:42
In reply to my acupuncture for depression, posted by pseudoname on October 2, 2006, at 15:21:57
I havent tried accupuncture, but you might look into anything qi-related. Accupressure points are just points on your channels that circulate your body's energy. Qigong or tai chi (both also developed by the Chinese), or yoga would all help you develop your energy circulation in a more long-term way and help you break through your blocks. And once you learn the practice you dont have to keep paying for classes unless you want to. (There are even churches and other programs around that offer free classes so you might look for those.)
http://www.tiantianqigong.com/
http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/chi_kung.htm
Ive had a decade-long depression that is beginning to reverse after doing tai chi/qigong for just over a year.
Have you tried simple progressive relaxation? I think thats really important, but I wasnt able to really work on it until I got my qi flowing and thats made all the difference.
If you are looking for a jumpstart along the way and you cant find a good accupuncturist, you might do as well with a good Reiki practioner. EFT that Jlx mentions looks great and Id like to try it myself.
i hope you find your way. good luck.
Posted by pseudoname on October 12, 2006, at 0:21:38
In reply to Re: my acupuncture for depression, posted by robot on October 11, 2006, at 23:40:42
Posted by pseudoname on October 19, 2006, at 12:21:34
In reply to my acupuncture for depression, posted by pseudoname on October 2, 2006, at 15:21:57
Well, I went to my last of six scheduled appointments for acupuncture for depression. I was taking a fair amount of other meds & fish oil at the same time, so it'd be hard to say that in isolation the acupuncture was responsible for any progress or failure, but I think it was a total waste.
In fairness to acupuncture, I couldn't find a truly traditional practitioner, so the points this guy used may not have been the right ones for me.
Also, he did not seem very sharp (so to speak!), and I was very put off by his smiley, "So-you-feeling-better-now?" attitude at the beginning of every session. (You often get that with pdocs, too, of course.) He also said that he sees a lot of people who do not WANT to get better even though they keep coming in for treatment. I considered that to be a warning: "Report improvement or I will label you a malcontent."
He said he could see improvement in my demeanor, etc, in the 3 weeks he'd known me. He also said that if I kept coming in, he'd get me so I was "smiling all the time." I considered that to be an irresponsible promise of efficacy in the face of negligible (if any) improvement so far. I think he had no experience with long-term, treatment-resistant depression and was clueless about what I am really up against.
I wasn't expecting any improvement, frankly. I was dubious of acupuncture to begin with, but I don't dismiss it. There are a few studies… Nevertheless, it didn't work for me. If I ever come across a more traditional practitioner with experience in depression, I might try it again.
Anyway, I can say I've done it.
This is the end of the thread.
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