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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by clint878 on September 21, 2006, at 21:51:43
Hi,
I made a few posts earlier here about Sam-E. If you've taken Sam-E, could you spend a few minutes of your time answering a question?
In most studies, people who took Sam-E for depression did so without taking any additional supplements. Across the Internet, however, there are some people who say that Sam-E should only be taken with a B-12 and folic acid supplement to prevent a theoretical increase in homocystiene, though the opposite has actually been found (homocystiene was lowered in studies).
If you've ever taken Sam-E, did you take a B-12 supplement with it? If so, how large was the dosage of Sam-E and B-12?
I don't want to influence the responses, so I will witheld the reason for my query until a few people have replied.
Thanks,
-Brant
Posted by willyee on September 21, 2006, at 21:51:43
In reply to Sam-E and B-12, posted by clint878 on September 17, 2006, at 17:26:19
> Hi,
>
> I made a few posts earlier here about Sam-E. If you've taken Sam-E, could you spend a few minutes of your time answering a question?
>
> In most studies, people who took Sam-E for depression did so without taking any additional supplements. Across the Internet, however, there are some people who say that Sam-E should only be taken with a B-12 and folic acid supplement to prevent a theoretical increase in homocystiene, though the opposite has actually been found (homocystiene was lowered in studies).
>
> If you've ever taken Sam-E, did you take a B-12 supplement with it? If so, how large was the dosage of Sam-E and B-12?
>
> I don't want to influence the responses, so I will witheld the reason for my query until a few people have replied.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Brant
Im sure youll get a LOT of responses,samE is presented as a HUGE alternative nutrient for depression,right beside st johns wort,only with samE being a nutrient over a herb.
Personaly i found samE to be one of the hardest hitting alternatives on the WALLET,aside from that,and aside from the successes which im sure exsist im just not aware of them,i know samE is notorious for creating some maniac phases that start out seemingly as a mood lift.
Posted by Phillipa on September 21, 2006, at 21:51:43
In reply to Re: Sam-E and B-12, posted by willyee on September 17, 2006, at 17:52:41
Will I didn't know it caused manic responses. Thought it was for mild depression? Love Phillipa
Posted by Declan on September 21, 2006, at 21:52:23
In reply to Sam-E and B-12, posted by clint878 on September 17, 2006, at 17:26:19
SAMe 400-800mg
B12 600mcg
Posted by willyee on September 21, 2006, at 21:52:23
In reply to Re: Sam-E and B-12 » clint878, posted by Declan on September 19, 2006, at 17:11:50
> SAMe 400-800mg
> B12 600mcgHey i dont visit the other parts of this site,are you trying mostly alternative now,if so hows it comming along if ya dont mind me asking?
Posted by clint878 on September 21, 2006, at 21:52:23
In reply to Re: Sam-E and B-12, posted by willyee on September 19, 2006, at 21:06:47
While I realize that you weren't referring to me in your post, I thought I should say that the reason I asked here was because I was, apparently, B12-deficient before I started taking the Sam-E. That's why I was depressed in the first place. Apparently, the Sam-E exacerbated the deficiency, throwing me into a confused and disoriented state.
Even though I continued the multivitamin that had 50mcg of B-12 in it, I have an absorbtion problem that didn't let me get enough B-12 from the multivitamin in the first place, let alone with the Sam-E.
I've never heard of anyone before having a reaction like this, which is why I asked. Perhaps taking huge doses of B-12 prior to the Sam-E would have prevented this catastrophe. Though I started supplementation when a doctor finally realized the problem five weeks later, it was too late. As it is, unfortunately, my usefulness is probably over; it's unlikely I'll ever regain my intelligence, nor the feeling in my arms and legs.
Even if I can't think clearly enough to do anything of much value at work, I can at least write letters to the FDA and spread this story across the Internet to warn people against taking Sam-E.
-Brant
Posted by willyee on September 21, 2006, at 21:52:24
In reply to Re: Sam-E and B-12, posted by clint878 on September 19, 2006, at 21:16:48
> While I realize that you weren't referring to me in your post, I thought I should say that the reason I asked here was because I was, apparently, B12-deficient before I started taking the Sam-E. That's why I was depressed in the first place. Apparently, the Sam-E exacerbated the deficiency, throwing me into a confused and disoriented state.
>
> Even though I continued the multivitamin that had 50mcg of B-12 in it, I have an absorbtion problem that didn't let me get enough B-12 from the multivitamin in the first place, let alone with the Sam-E.
>
> I've never heard of anyone before having a reaction like this, which is why I asked. Perhaps taking huge doses of B-12 prior to the Sam-E would have prevented this catastrophe. Though I started supplementation when a doctor finally realized the problem five weeks later, it was too late. As it is, unfortunately, my usefulness is probably over; it's unlikely I'll ever regain my intelligence, nor the feeling in my arms and legs.
>
> Even if I can't think clearly enough to do anything of much value at work, I can at least write letters to the FDA and spread this story across the Internet to warn people against taking Sam-E.
>
> -BrantWow sorry to hear that,personaly i never liked it one bit,but would never have thought it capable of doing such damage.
Not knowing ur situation i still say people think too often that natural means safe,amino loading for example,not safe,you need to know ur stuff before u go chomping down aminos,i learned most this the hard way and treat almost anything that crosses into the brain with serious regard.
Posted by clint878 on September 21, 2006, at 21:52:24
In reply to Re: Sam-E and B-12, posted by willyee on September 20, 2006, at 10:08:58
You say that you found out the "hard way." What is the "hard way," if you don't mind me asking? Did you hsve a similar reaction to a different substance?
As to me, perhaps I spoke too soon. There was dramatic improvement overnight and I can think more clearly now and my memory has improved. I can even start to feel the keys I'm using to type. Maybe there's hope yet; but even if I completely recover, I'm still going to spread the word about Sam-E.
> > While I realize that you weren't referring to me in your post, I thought I should say that the reason I asked here was because I was, apparently, B12-deficient before I started taking the Sam-E. That's why I was depressed in the first place. Apparently, the Sam-E exacerbated the deficiency, throwing me into a confused and disoriented state.
> >
> > Even though I continued the multivitamin that had 50mcg of B-12 in it, I have an absorbtion problem that didn't let me get enough B-12 from the multivitamin in the first place, let alone with the Sam-E.
> >
> > I've never heard of anyone before having a reaction like this, which is why I asked. Perhaps taking huge doses of B-12 prior to the Sam-E would have prevented this catastrophe. Though I started supplementation when a doctor finally realized the problem five weeks later, it was too late. As it is, unfortunately, my usefulness is probably over; it's unlikely I'll ever regain my intelligence, nor the feeling in my arms and legs.
> >
> > Even if I can't think clearly enough to do anything of much value at work, I can at least write letters to the FDA and spread this story across the Internet to warn people against taking Sam-E.
> >
> > -Brant
>
> Wow sorry to hear that,personaly i never liked it one bit,but would never have thought it capable of doing such damage.
>
> Not knowing ur situation i still say people think too often that natural means safe,amino loading for example,not safe,you need to know ur stuff before u go chomping down aminos,i learned most this the hard way and treat almost anything that crosses into the brain with serious regard.
Posted by Phillipa on September 21, 2006, at 21:52:24
In reply to Sam-E and B-12, posted by clint878 on September 17, 2006, at 17:26:19
So Saam-E really works? Love phillipa
Posted by willyee on September 21, 2006, at 21:52:24
In reply to Re: Sam-E and B-12, posted by clint878 on September 20, 2006, at 18:24:54
> You say that you found out the "hard way." What is the "hard way," if you don't mind me asking? Did you hsve a similar reaction to a different substance?
>
> As to me, perhaps I spoke too soon. There was dramatic improvement overnight and I can think more clearly now and my memory has improved. I can even start to feel the keys I'm using to type. Maybe there's hope yet; but even if I completely recover, I'm still going to spread the word about Sam-E.
>
> > > While I realize that you weren't referring to me in your post, I thought I should say that the reason I asked here was because I was, apparently, B12-deficient before I started taking the Sam-E. That's why I was depressed in the first place. Apparently, the Sam-E exacerbated the deficiency, throwing me into a confused and disoriented state.
> > >
> > > Even though I continued the multivitamin that had 50mcg of B-12 in it, I have an absorbtion problem that didn't let me get enough B-12 from the multivitamin in the first place, let alone with the Sam-E.
> > >
> > > I've never heard of anyone before having a reaction like this, which is why I asked. Perhaps taking huge doses of B-12 prior to the Sam-E would have prevented this catastrophe. Though I started supplementation when a doctor finally realized the problem five weeks later, it was too late. As it is, unfortunately, my usefulness is probably over; it's unlikely I'll ever regain my intelligence, nor the feeling in my arms and legs.
> > >
> > > Even if I can't think clearly enough to do anything of much value at work, I can at least write letters to the FDA and spread this story across the Internet to warn people against taking Sam-E.
> > >
> > > -Brant
> >
> > Wow sorry to hear that,personaly i never liked it one bit,but would never have thought it capable of doing such damage.
> >
> > Not knowing ur situation i still say people think too often that natural means safe,amino loading for example,not safe,you need to know ur stuff before u go chomping down aminos,i learned most this the hard way and treat almost anything that crosses into the brain with serious regard.
>
>No of course not,anything i type is out there to inquire.I spent a little of a year off script drugs,and got deep into nutrients and herbs.
I read a few books,as well as particpated in sme groups.
I took a stab at most stuff recomended on this route such as aminos,excuse my spelling ....l-phenyalainine,l-tyrosine, and the like.
As well as various herbs,kava kava,gotu kola,etc.
Inositol,l trypothan,i just touched on a lot.samE being one,and well there are precations to take with thse as well,when you raise specfic aminos in AMINO LOADING you imbalance other aminos and nutrients,so cycling is required.As well as the fact that mega dosing thse nutrients isnt NATURAL either.
I simply learned that unless you know what you are doing,stockpiling your brain with over the counter nutrients and herbs can make you feel just as crumpy as prescription drugs.With regards to samE specific,i learned that simply taking it as i wanted because it was a nutrient and natural led to me being in a super maniac phase,extreme anxiety and depression.
After a year or so i found i had moved further back on natural alternatives than on presription drugs,and also i was quite broke.
At least now i have insurance.
Posted by Jlx on September 23, 2006, at 12:20:47
In reply to Re: Sam-E and B-12, posted by clint878 on September 19, 2006, at 21:16:48
> While I realize that you weren't referring to me in your post, I thought I should say that the reason I asked here was because I was, apparently, B12-deficient before I started taking the Sam-E. That's why I was depressed in the first place. Apparently, the Sam-E exacerbated the deficiency, throwing me into a confused and disoriented state.
>
> Even though I continued the multivitamin that had 50mcg of B-12 in it, I have an absorbtion problem that didn't let me get enough B-12 from the multivitamin in the first place, let alone with the Sam-E.
>
> I've never heard of anyone before having a reaction like this, which is why I asked. Perhaps taking huge doses of B-12 prior to the Sam-E would have prevented this catastrophe. Though I started supplementation when a doctor finally realized the problem five weeks later, it was too late. As it is, unfortunately, my usefulness is probably over; it's unlikely I'll ever regain my intelligence, nor the feeling in my arms and legs.
>
> Even if I can't think clearly enough to do anything of much value at work, I can at least write letters to the FDA and spread this story across the Internet to warn people against taking Sam-E.
>
> -BrantI've taken SAM-e, 1600 mg, and it worked well, but only for a couple months. I don't remember if I was taking B12 specifically, but I probably was taking a B complex as I usually do.
I'm curious about what exactly you are attributing to SAM-e as opposed to the B12 deficiency.
It sounds like your example illustrates a pet peeve of mine -- that physicians don't look for causes of depression, and even when there ARE tests for nutritional deficiencies, they don't test for them.
It's certainly true that nutritional supplements are not always safe especially in the doses that people experiement with, particularly if they've not made the effort to inform themselves beforehand. I'm dismayed at the number of people who come here apparently looking for a magic bullet to replace their previous drug, assuming there is some equivalency. Nutritional supplements, like problems in the body itself, should be viewed holistically, not in isolation, in my opinion.
JL
This is the end of the thread.
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