![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by honeybee on May 5, 2006, at 12:35:06
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doc » linkadge, posted by jakeman on May 2, 2006, at 21:50:59
Jake,
How long have you been doing the SAMe and Celexa combo (and how did you get that approved by your pdoc???)? How's it work for you?
I've discontinued the fish oil for a bit, because I've felt like it was making me too anxious. But maybe some flax is in order. I should ask, though, was the rec that you take flax oil, then? Or are you going for a supplement of pure ALA?
hb
Posted by jakeman on May 5, 2006, at 21:44:21
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doc, posted by honeybee on May 5, 2006, at 12:35:06
Hi hb,
I've been doing the Celexa and SAMe combo for about 2 1/2 months. I've was presribed Celexa by a GP, some years ago. I took it for a while then stopped. But this time I ordered it from a Canadian pharmacy. The reason being that I called about 8 psychiatrists on my insurance list and none were accepting new patients.
I'm going for pure Alpha-Lipoic acid. That's what my sleep doctor/neurologist recommended. I told him about my taking Celexa and SAMe. He raised his eyebrows but said nothing. I think through our conversations that he's aware that I do a lot of research and that I am cautious about anything I take. I'm taking fish oil too.
warm regards, Jake
> Jake,
>
> How long have you been doing the SAMe and Celexa combo (and how did you get that approved by your pdoc???)? How's it work for you?
>
> I've discontinued the fish oil for a bit, because I've felt like it was making me too anxious. But maybe some flax is in order. I should ask, though, was the rec that you take flax oil, then? Or are you going for a supplement of pure ALA?
>
> hb
Posted by jakeman on May 5, 2006, at 22:00:26
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doc, posted by honeybee on May 5, 2006, at 12:35:06
I forgot, you asked how's it works for me. Well it works fairly well. Some people on this board have recommended taking SAM-e in pulses, that taking it everyday can cause some tension. So that's what I'm experimenting with. Plus I've added in Lyrica (sleep doctor recommendation) and that's helped some with sleep and anxiety. I'm staying on ALC because it's overall a good supplement for a variety of reasons. If it helps my mental health, so much the better.
I have no clear answers. I may try Ensam if I can find a p-doc. What are you taking?
> Jake,
>
> How long have you been doing the SAMe and Celexa combo (and how did you get that approved by your pdoc???)? How's it work for you?
>
> I've discontinued the fish oil for a bit, because I've felt like it was making me too anxious. But maybe some flax is in order. I should ask, though, was the rec that you take flax oil, then? Or are you going for a supplement of pure ALA?
>
> hb
Posted by Declan on May 6, 2006, at 19:10:03
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doc » honeybee, posted by jakeman on May 5, 2006, at 22:00:26
Acetyl L Carnitine? You take that Jake?
Posted by jakeman on May 7, 2006, at 14:02:47
In reply to ALC?? » jakeman, posted by Declan on May 6, 2006, at 19:10:03
> Acetyl L Carnitine? You take that Jake?
Actually I meant to say ALA, Alpha Lipoic Acid.
~Jake
Posted by honeybee on May 10, 2006, at 15:38:09
In reply to Re: ALC?? » Declan, posted by jakeman on May 7, 2006, at 14:02:47
Hi, Jake,
I was away this weekend and from the computer until today. Thanks for writing what your experience has been.
For the last four months, I had been taking SAM-e (starting at one level, then dropping down after I realized that I was feeling anxious). The combination of that and fish oil was putting me into panic mode. So I stopped, and went to the pdoc last week, got a prescription for Lexapro, proceeded to take it, with a huge amount of trepidation (I have a wee bit of paranoia about how healthy I am and whether or not my liver can take such strong drugs; and tend not to trust doctors much anymore). And it sort of blew me over with fatigue.
Funny thing about SAM-e is that I had a significant, exhausted withdrawal. It didn't help that I went onto lexapro, which made me exquisitely, monumentally tired. Now, I'm trying to re-assess whether or not to go back on the SAM-e, which didn't make me feel so lousy as the lexapro did, and where to go from here.
Thanks, again, Jake.
Beth
Posted by jakeman on May 10, 2006, at 20:48:23
In reply to Re: ALC??, posted by honeybee on May 10, 2006, at 15:38:09
Hi Beth. Thanks for the update. I'm interested in your reports about Lexapro since I've considered it as well. SAM-e is definately activating for me. Sometimes too much so. I'm still experimenting with the dosage.
warm regards, Jake
> Hi, Jake,
>
> I was away this weekend and from the computer until today. Thanks for writing what your experience has been.
>
> For the last four months, I had been taking SAM-e (starting at one level, then dropping down after I realized that I was feeling anxious). The combination of that and fish oil was putting me into panic mode. So I stopped, and went to the pdoc last week, got a prescription for Lexapro, proceeded to take it, with a huge amount of trepidation (I have a wee bit of paranoia about how healthy I am and whether or not my liver can take such strong drugs; and tend not to trust doctors much anymore). And it sort of blew me over with fatigue.
>
> Funny thing about SAM-e is that I had a significant, exhausted withdrawal. It didn't help that I went onto lexapro, which made me exquisitely, monumentally tired. Now, I'm trying to re-assess whether or not to go back on the SAM-e, which didn't make me feel so lousy as the lexapro did, and where to go from here.
>
> Thanks, again, Jake.
>
> Beth
>
>
Posted by honeybee on May 12, 2006, at 10:29:55
In reply to Re: ALC?? » honeybee, posted by jakeman on May 10, 2006, at 20:48:23
Jake,
Will do! I'm off to see the pdoc in a half hour to discuss the lex. and discuss the SAM-e. You probably saw my post (below) about Parkinsons, too. If he gives me any (useful) information about any of it, I'll pass it on. For the record, my gp suggested that I need to have a pediatric dose rather than a big person's dose, because I'm responding to meds more strongly now. Big fun!
b
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2006, at 12:34:23
In reply to First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doctor, posted by jakeman on May 1, 2006, at 20:46:18
> My neurologist/sleep doctor advised taking alpha-lipoic acid, 200 mg, three times a day. He said it helps balance the sympathetic/parasympatheic nervous system. Any thoughts? Lar are you still out there?
>
> warm regards, JakeSo sorry for the tardiness.
Alphalipopic acid is an antioxidant, spanning both the lipophilic and hydrophilic domains. It is an essential component in mitochondrial membranes, helping to trap escaping pro-oxidants. It works synergistically with vitamins E and C.
It's good for you. I can assure you of that. I've never heard that reason for taking it before this. I don't care much why you take it, just do so.
Lar
Posted by Jakeman on May 25, 2006, at 21:15:23
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doctor » jakeman, posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2006, at 12:34:23
Lar, thanks for the response. Do you have any opinion on the best form of alpha-lipoic to take? Such as flax oil or alpha-lipoic capsules. Ray Sahelian says there is a big differences between the R and L versions. My current supplement does not say if it is R or L.
warm regards, Jake
>>
> Alphalipopic acid is an antioxidant, spanning both the lipophilic and hydrophilic domains. It is an essential component in mitochondrial membranes, helping to trap escaping pro-oxidants. It works synergistically with vitamins E and C.
>
> It's good for you. I can assure you of that. I've never heard that reason for taking it before this. I don't care much why you take it, just do so.
>
> Lar
>
>
Posted by cardinaldirection on May 28, 2006, at 2:19:19
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doctor » Larry Hoover, posted by Jakeman on May 25, 2006, at 21:15:23
read recently that alpha lipoic acid (among a few other things, perhaps in combination) acts as an attracting force for free radicals in the body, helping dispose of them through the processing and subsequent excretion of the ala. free radicals being the 'toxins' that speed up the degeneration of our bodies, this would lead to a longer lifespan, possibly quite longer... hypothetically speaking, given that this information is too new to tell yet. this is how i learned about ala... am very curious to hear other perspectives on its uses in the treatment of various neurotransmitter 'deficiancies'.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 30, 2006, at 12:13:17
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doctor » Larry Hoover, posted by Jakeman on May 25, 2006, at 21:15:23
> Lar, thanks for the response. Do you have any opinion on the best form of alpha-lipoic to take? Such as flax oil or alpha-lipoic capsules. Ray Sahelian says there is a big differences between the R and L versions. My current supplement does not say if it is R or L.
>
> warm regards, JakeThe pairwise labels are R-/S- and d-/l-. You've got the pairs mixed up, Jake. The first one uses a functional group priority around chiral carbons, whereas the latter has to do with optical rotation. There is no strict way to translate the two phenomena. I.e. R- is not always d-. It is, though, in this case.
I suppose I should sort this out, but I haven't yet. If a supplement doesn't say which version it is, I would assume it is the racemate, i.e. the product of human synthesis, rather than extraction from a natural source. I think they would trumpet the news if it was enantiomerically selected. R- is supposed to be the better one, right?
There is no inherent reason why taking S-alphalipoic acid is adverse, is there? It may not do anything, but it doesn't necessarily do any harm.
Okay, off I go. <search mode on>
There is contradictory or ambivalent evidence that the S-enantiomer produces adverse effects. It depends on what you call the effects themselves.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7669066I learned something very important that I didn't know. The adverse effect threshold is about 1 mg/kg, in sensitive individuals. Unfortunately, I can only find this detail as a secondary reference. I do not know the primary source for that. So, some caution is required here. No downing half a bottle of this stuff. The LD50 is quite large, but the in-between level is uncertain.
R-alpha-lipoic acid is the natural form. It is probably the most active form. I am not convinced that S-alpha-lipoic acid, arising from non-stereospecific synthesis (in a vat at a factory) is actually an adverse contaminant. That said, pure R-lipoic acid is definitely the "real deal". R-lipoic acid can prevent vitamin C and E deficiency, by recycling "spent" vitamins. It works alongside CoQ10 (a.k.a. ubiquinone), which is very expensive. So, you can save on CoQ10 by keeping up with alphalipoic acid. I am going to go take some, right now. And, I'm going to investigate sources of R-lipoic acid, to see if the cost differential is not a big deal. I can't help it. I have a Scot's blood in me.
I love questions.
I love being reminded of all the things of which I am absent-mindedly absent-minding.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 30, 2006, at 12:47:11
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doc, posted by cardinaldirection on May 28, 2006, at 2:19:19
> read recently that alpha lipoic acid (among a few other things, perhaps in combination) acts as an attracting force for free radicals in the body, helping dispose of them through the processing and subsequent excretion of the ala. free radicals being the 'toxins' that speed up the degeneration of our bodies, this would lead to a longer lifespan, possibly quite longer... hypothetically speaking, given that this information is too new to tell yet. this is how i learned about ala... am very curious to hear other perspectives on its uses in the treatment of various neurotransmitter 'deficiancies'.
Hmmm, it's clear you're not a chemist. Free radicals are not toxins. They are the product of our bodies' sometimes exceedingly dangerous harnessing of the reactivity of molecular oxygen.
A free radical is any atom or molecule with a lone electron somewhere in its outer shell. We usually apply the concept to molecules. Atomic free radicals are so unstable they'll react with virtually anything at all. Molecules have a more extended existence.
Molecular oxygen is about the most corrosive substance known. It can turn pure iron to dust. It can cause uncontrollable chain reactions (fire). If the atmospheric concentration was greater than about 22%, water would not be able to consume enough heat to extinguish an oxygen fire. Luckily, our atmosphere is at about 17% oxygen.
In its atmospheric state, it exists as an oscillating di-radical. It has two radical electrons, then none. Then two. Then none again. If it is adjacent to something that can have an electron stolen from it when it goes to a radical state, you have a chemical reaction. Heat is released. And, whatever was oxidized is changed by it. A radical can create another radical (the "missing electron" is moved to another molecule). Or, two free radicals can combine, and they quench each other. Two radicals added together makes no radical at all. They each contribute one electron, everything pairs up, and all is happy.
Vitamin E, alpha-tocopherol, is a free radical. So, if it bumps into a free radical, it will quench it. Alphalipoic acid can put the radical back into vitamin E.
Oxygen-based metabolism produces free radicals all over the place. Peroxides, superoxide, nitric oxide, hydroxyl radical..... Antioxidants are nothing but sacraficial lambs. They "die", so that radicals don't get a chance to get at e.g. our DNA, RNA, proteins, cell membranes, etc.
Sulphur-bearing molecules, as sulfhydryls in particular, are especially good antioxidants. Glutathione and alpha-lipoic acid are prime examples. The -SH group is more reactive than the alcohol -OH group that is on a lot of important molecules in our bodies. Sacrificing sulphur protects the other molecules.
Cysteine and methionine are sulphur-bearing amino acids. They are very vulnerable to oxidants, if your antioxidant stores are low. No methionine means no SAMe (S-adenosyl methionine), for example. No cysteine means no taurine.
You'd be dead, if you didn't have free radicals being formed in your body. Even after you're dead, free radicals are being formed by the microbes that consume the pile of nutrients you left behind. It is controlling or limiting the scope of effect of the free radicals that is behind this realm of supplementation. Stress uses up your antioxidants. Food processing strips them out of foods, while simultaneously increasing the demand for them.
Lar
Posted by cardinaldirection on May 30, 2006, at 17:36:22
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doc » cardinaldirection, posted by Larry Hoover on May 30, 2006, at 12:47:11
nope, not a chemist... just recently started researching my own neurochemistry, and some pharmacology.
this isnt the exact article i read, but it does talk a bit about what i was referring to...
"The body needs ALA to produce energy. It plays a crucial role in the mitochondria, the energy-producing structures in cells. The body actually makes enough ALA for these basic metabolic functions. This compound acts as an antioxidant, however, only when there is an excess of it and it is in the "free" state in the cells. But there is little free ALA circulating in your body, unless you consume supplements or get it injected. Foods contain only tiny amounts of it. What makes ALA special as an antioxidant is its versatility—it helps deactivate an unusually wide array of cell-damaging free radicals in many bodily systems.
In particular, ALA helps protect the mitochondria and the genetic material, DNA. As we age, mitochondrial function is impaired, and it’s theorized that this may be an important contributor to some of the adverse effects of aging. ALA also works closely with vitamin C and E and some other antioxidants, "recycling" them and thus making them much more effective."> Hmmm, it's clear you're not a chemist. Free radicals are not toxins. They are the product of our bodies' sometimes exceedingly dangerous harnessing of the reactivity of molecular oxygen.
>
> A free radical is any atom or molecule with a lone electron somewhere in its outer shell. We usually apply the concept to molecules. Atomic free radicals are so unstable they'll react with virtually anything at all. Molecules have a more extended existence.
>
> Molecular oxygen is about the most corrosive substance known. It can turn pure iron to dust. It can cause uncontrollable chain reactions (fire). If the atmospheric concentration was greater than about 22%, water would not be able to consume enough heat to extinguish an oxygen fire. Luckily, our atmosphere is at about 17% oxygen.
>
> In its atmospheric state, it exists as an oscillating di-radical. It has two radical electrons, then none. Then two. Then none again. If it is adjacent to something that can have an electron stolen from it when it goes to a radical state, you have a chemical reaction. Heat is released. And, whatever was oxidized is changed by it. A radical can create another radical (the "missing electron" is moved to another molecule). Or, two free radicals can combine, and they quench each other. Two radicals added together makes no radical at all. They each contribute one electron, everything pairs up, and all is happy.
>
> Vitamin E, alpha-tocopherol, is a free radical. So, if it bumps into a free radical, it will quench it. Alphalipoic acid can put the radical back into vitamin E.
>
> Oxygen-based metabolism produces free radicals all over the place. Peroxides, superoxide, nitric oxide, hydroxyl radical..... Antioxidants are nothing but sacraficial lambs. They "die", so that radicals don't get a chance to get at e.g. our DNA, RNA, proteins, cell membranes, etc.
>
> Sulphur-bearing molecules, as sulfhydryls in particular, are especially good antioxidants. Glutathione and alpha-lipoic acid are prime examples. The -SH group is more reactive than the alcohol -OH group that is on a lot of important molecules in our bodies. Sacrificing sulphur protects the other molecules.
>
> Cysteine and methionine are sulphur-bearing amino acids. They are very vulnerable to oxidants, if your antioxidant stores are low. No methionine means no SAMe (S-adenosyl methionine), for example. No cysteine means no taurine.
>
> You'd be dead, if you didn't have free radicals being formed in your body. Even after you're dead, free radicals are being formed by the microbes that consume the pile of nutrients you left behind. It is controlling or limiting the scope of effect of the free radicals that is behind this realm of supplementation. Stress uses up your antioxidants. Food processing strips them out of foods, while simultaneously increasing the demand for them.
>
> Lar
Posted by Jakeman on May 30, 2006, at 19:26:29
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doctor » Jakeman, posted by Larry Hoover on May 30, 2006, at 12:13:17
Lar, thanks for filling in the technical details which for which I don't have much knowledge. I'm Scottish too, for better or worse I tend to never give up. A few years ago I visited Hadrian's wall between England and Scotland. Seems the Roman conquest moved toward Scotland and they decided that they just could't deal with those independent, obstinate people :-).
I guess I'm still wondering, would it be better to just pour some flax oil on my oatmeal to get the ALA (maybe better absorption). If I continue with the capsules I guess I'll go for the R- form. And capsules have the convenience factor.
warm regards, Jake
> > Lar, thanks for the response. Do you have any opinion on the best form of alpha-lipoic to take? Such as flax oil or alpha-lipoic capsules. Ray Sahelian says there is a big differences between the R and L versions. My current supplement does not say if it is R or L.
> >
> > warm regards, Jake
>
> The pairwise labels are R-/S- and d-/l-. You've got the pairs mixed up, Jake. The first one uses a functional group priority around chiral carbons, whereas the latter has to do with optical rotation. There is no strict way to translate the two phenomena. I.e. R- is not always d-. It is, though, in this case.
>
> I suppose I should sort this out, but I haven't yet. If a supplement doesn't say which version it is, I would assume it is the racemate, i.e. the product of human synthesis, rather than extraction from a natural source. I think they would trumpet the news if it was enantiomerically selected. R- is supposed to be the better one, right?
>
> There is no inherent reason why taking S-alphalipoic acid is adverse, is there? It may not do anything, but it doesn't necessarily do any harm.
>
> Okay, off I go. <search mode on>
>
> There is contradictory or ambivalent evidence that the S-enantiomer produces adverse effects. It depends on what you call the effects themselves.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7669066
>
> I learned something very important that I didn't know. The adverse effect threshold is about 1 mg/kg, in sensitive individuals. Unfortunately, I can only find this detail as a secondary reference. I do not know the primary source for that. So, some caution is required here. No downing half a bottle of this stuff. The LD50 is quite large, but the in-between level is uncertain.
>
> R-alpha-lipoic acid is the natural form. It is probably the most active form. I am not convinced that S-alpha-lipoic acid, arising from non-stereospecific synthesis (in a vat at a factory) is actually an adverse contaminant. That said, pure R-lipoic acid is definitely the "real deal". R-lipoic acid can prevent vitamin C and E deficiency, by recycling "spent" vitamins. It works alongside CoQ10 (a.k.a. ubiquinone), which is very expensive. So, you can save on CoQ10 by keeping up with alphalipoic acid. I am going to go take some, right now. And, I'm going to investigate sources of R-lipoic acid, to see if the cost differential is not a big deal. I can't help it. I have a Scot's blood in me.
>
> I love questions.
>
> I love being reminded of all the things of which I am absent-mindedly absent-minding.
>
> Lar
Posted by Jakeman on May 30, 2006, at 19:28:43
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doc, posted by cardinaldirection on May 30, 2006, at 17:36:22
Excellent information Cardinal. Thanks for posting.
warm regards, Jake
> nope, not a chemist... just recently started researching my own neurochemistry, and some pharmacology.
> this isnt the exact article i read, but it does talk a bit about what i was referring to...
> "The body needs ALA to produce energy. It plays a crucial role in the mitochondria, the energy-producing structures in cells. The body actually makes enough ALA for these basic metabolic functions. This compound acts as an antioxidant, however, only when there is an excess of it and it is in the "free" state in the cells. But there is little free ALA circulating in your body, unless you consume supplements or get it injected. Foods contain only tiny amounts of it. What makes ALA special as an antioxidant is its versatility—it helps deactivate an unusually wide array of cell-damaging free radicals in many bodily systems.
> In particular, ALA helps protect the mitochondria and the genetic material, DNA. As we age, mitochondrial function is impaired, and it’s theorized that this may be an important contributor to some of the adverse effects of aging. ALA also works closely with vitamin C and E and some other antioxidants, "recycling" them and thus making them much more effective."
>
> > Hmmm, it's clear you're not a chemist. Free radicals are not toxins. They are the product of our bodies' sometimes exceedingly dangerous harnessing of the reactivity of molecular oxygen.
> >
> > A free radical is any atom or molecule with a lone electron somewhere in its outer shell. We usually apply the concept to molecules. Atomic free radicals are so unstable they'll react with virtually anything at all. Molecules have a more extended existence.
> >
> > Molecular oxygen is about the most corrosive substance known. It can turn pure iron to dust. It can cause uncontrollable chain reactions (fire). If the atmospheric concentration was greater than about 22%, water would not be able to consume enough heat to extinguish an oxygen fire. Luckily, our atmosphere is at about 17% oxygen.
> >
> > In its atmospheric state, it exists as an oscillating di-radical. It has two radical electrons, then none. Then two. Then none again. If it is adjacent to something that can have an electron stolen from it when it goes to a radical state, you have a chemical reaction. Heat is released. And, whatever was oxidized is changed by it. A radical can create another radical (the "missing electron" is moved to another molecule). Or, two free radicals can combine, and they quench each other. Two radicals added together makes no radical at all. They each contribute one electron, everything pairs up, and all is happy.
> >
> > Vitamin E, alpha-tocopherol, is a free radical. So, if it bumps into a free radical, it will quench it. Alphalipoic acid can put the radical back into vitamin E.
> >
> > Oxygen-based metabolism produces free radicals all over the place. Peroxides, superoxide, nitric oxide, hydroxyl radical..... Antioxidants are nothing but sacraficial lambs. They "die", so that radicals don't get a chance to get at e.g. our DNA, RNA, proteins, cell membranes, etc.
> >
> > Sulphur-bearing molecules, as sulfhydryls in particular, are especially good antioxidants. Glutathione and alpha-lipoic acid are prime examples. The -SH group is more reactive than the alcohol -OH group that is on a lot of important molecules in our bodies. Sacrificing sulphur protects the other molecules.
> >
> > Cysteine and methionine are sulphur-bearing amino acids. They are very vulnerable to oxidants, if your antioxidant stores are low. No methionine means no SAMe (S-adenosyl methionine), for example. No cysteine means no taurine.
> >
> > You'd be dead, if you didn't have free radicals being formed in your body. Even after you're dead, free radicals are being formed by the microbes that consume the pile of nutrients you left behind. It is controlling or limiting the scope of effect of the free radicals that is behind this realm of supplementation. Stress uses up your antioxidants. Food processing strips them out of foods, while simultaneously increasing the demand for them.
> >
> > Lar
>
>
Posted by cardinaldirection on May 30, 2006, at 21:21:37
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doctor » Larry Hoover, posted by Jakeman on May 30, 2006, at 19:26:29
im taking roughly a tbsp of flax oil every other morning, mainly for its addition of omega 3 linolenic acid... honestly wasnt even aware that it contained ala?
> Lar, thanks for filling in the technical details which for which I don't have much knowledge. I'm Scottish too, for better or worse I tend to never give up. A few years ago I visited Hadrian's wall between England and Scotland. Seems the Roman conquest moved toward Scotland and they decided that they just could't deal with those independent, obstinate people :-).
>
> I guess I'm still wondering, would it be better to just pour some flax oil on my oatmeal to get the ALA (maybe better absorption). If I continue with the capsules I guess I'll go for the R- form. And capsules have the convenience factor.
>
> warm regards, Jake
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 30, 2006, at 21:31:38
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doctor » Larry Hoover, posted by Jakeman on May 30, 2006, at 19:26:29
> Lar, thanks for filling in the technical details which for which I don't have much knowledge.
A pleasure, dude. If I missed anything....
> I'm Scottish too, for better or worse I tend to never give up. A few years ago I visited Hadrian's wall between England and Scotland. Seems the Roman conquest moved toward Scotland and they decided that they just could't deal with those independent, obstinate people :-).
And what's up with the men wearing the skirts up there, eh? My grandfather had the right to a tartan, so, as I understand it, I do too. Thing is, when I checked out the cost......12 yards of hand-woven wool (all those pleats).....about a grand! And no sporan, for that!
> I guess I'm still wondering, would it be better to just pour some flax oil on my oatmeal to get the ALA (maybe better absorption).
Just to be sure, with all these sound-alike contractions, ALA = alpha-linolenic acid, aka ALNA? If yes, then boil the flax seeds right into the porridge. They'll burst. Or get some Red River cereal (a Canadian staple). Flax and cracked whole wheat, I think, is all it is.
> If I continue with the capsules I guess I'll go for the R- form. And capsules have the convenience factor.
>
> warm regards, JakeIf it is the alphalipoate in the flax you're after, then go with the oil (if it is fresh, and cold-pressed).
Lar
Posted by Jakeman on May 31, 2006, at 19:24:26
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doc » Jakeman, posted by cardinaldirection on May 30, 2006, at 21:21:37
> im taking roughly a tbsp of flax oil every other morning, mainly for its addition of omega 3 linolenic acid... honestly wasnt even aware that it contained ala?
>I was not aware of that either, until another poster mentioned it, I believe honeybee. This site has a chart that shows amounts that are available:
http://www.flaxcouncil.ca/english/index.php?p=g1&mp=nutrition
warm regards, Jake
Posted by Jakeman on May 31, 2006, at 19:34:12
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doctor » Jakeman, posted by Larry Hoover on May 30, 2006, at 21:31:38
Lar,
You probably know that in the early days the English outlawed the wearing of tartans. Don't think it worked though.
I'm going to look for some Red River cereal. Sounds like something I'd like. To fit in with local custom down here I might have to add in some tabasco sauce :-)
warm regards, Jake
> > Lar, thanks for filling in the technical details which for which I don't have much knowledge.
>
> A pleasure, dude. If I missed anything....
>
> > I'm Scottish too, for better or worse I tend to never give up. A few years ago I visited Hadrian's wall between England and Scotland. Seems the Roman conquest moved toward Scotland and they decided that they just could't deal with those independent, obstinate people :-).
>
> And what's up with the men wearing the skirts up there, eh? My grandfather had the right to a tartan, so, as I understand it, I do too. Thing is, when I checked out the cost......12 yards of hand-woven wool (all those pleats).....about a grand! And no sporan, for that!
>
> > I guess I'm still wondering, would it be better to just pour some flax oil on my oatmeal to get the ALA (maybe better absorption).
>
> Just to be sure, with all these sound-alike contractions, ALA = alpha-linolenic acid, aka ALNA? If yes, then boil the flax seeds right into the porridge. They'll burst. Or get some Red River cereal (a Canadian staple). Flax and cracked whole wheat, I think, is all it is.
>
> > If I continue with the capsules I guess I'll go for the R- form. And capsules have the convenience factor.
> >
> > warm regards, Jake
>
> If it is the alphalipoate in the flax you're after, then go with the oil (if it is fresh, and cold-pressed).
>
> Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 31, 2006, at 21:30:10
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doc » cardinaldirection, posted by Jakeman on May 31, 2006, at 19:24:26
> > im taking roughly a tbsp of flax oil every other morning, mainly for its addition of omega 3 linolenic acid... honestly wasnt even aware that it contained ala?
> >
>
> I was not aware of that either, until another poster mentioned it, I believe honeybee. This site has a chart that shows amounts that are available:
>
> http://www.flaxcouncil.ca/english/index.php?p=g1&mp=nutrition
>
> warm regards, JakeThat ALA being referred to there is not alpha-lipioic acid. It is alpha-linolenic acid, the omega-3 fatty acid that we are supposed to be able to form those lovely long-chain omega-3s from, but really can't. That's why I prefer ALNA as the contraction for this fatty acid. AlphaLinoleNic Acid. To distinguish it from linoleic acid. You hardly miss the n.
Alphalipoic acid is also known as 5-(1,2-dithiolan-3-yl)pentanoic acid.
Alpha-linolenic acid is also known as all-cis-9,12,15-octadecatrienoic acid.
Just because it was in another thread, gamma-linolenic acid is all-cis-6,9,12-octadecatrienoic acid.
And looking at those two, I realize I made a mistake with something else I said, earlier, in that other thread. I'm too tired to sort it out, but I have some fixing to do.
(Note to self: Verify, verify, verify. That is twice this week.....)
Chemists prefer the names with all those numbers in them because they simply cannot be confused. Except if you aren't a chemist, because they are inately confusing.
Lar
Posted by Jakeman on May 31, 2006, at 21:43:08
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doc » Jakeman, posted by Larry Hoover on May 31, 2006, at 21:30:10
Lar, ok good, that's an important distinction that I glossed over. I think I get it now. Thanks for the clarification. ALNA.
warm regards, Jake
>
> That ALA being referred to there is not alpha-lipioic acid. It is alpha-linolenic acid, the omega-3 fatty acid that we are supposed to be able to form those lovely long-chain omega-3s from, but really can't. That's why I prefer ALNA as the contraction for this fatty acid. AlphaLinoleNic Acid. To distinguish it from linoleic acid. You hardly miss the n.
>
> Alphalipoic acid is also known as 5-(1,2-dithiolan-3-yl)pentanoic acid.
>
> Alpha-linolenic acid is also known as all-cis-9,12,15-octadecatrienoic acid.
>
> Just because it was in another thread, gamma-linolenic acid is all-cis-6,9,12-octadecatrienoic acid.
>
> And looking at those two, I realize I made a mistake with something else I said, earlier, in that other thread. I'm too tired to sort it out, but I have some fixing to do.
>
> (Note to self: Verify, verify, verify. That is twice this week.....)
>
> Chemists prefer the names with all those numbers in them because they simply cannot be confused. Except if you aren't a chemist, because they are inately confusing.
>
> Lar
Posted by cardinaldirection on June 1, 2006, at 6:39:08
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doc » Jakeman, posted by Larry Hoover on May 31, 2006, at 21:30:10
aaahah! thank you both for the clarification!
cd> > I was not aware of that either, until another poster mentioned it, I believe honeybee. This site has a chart that shows amounts that are available:
> >
> > http://www.flaxcouncil.ca/english/index.php?p=g1&mp=nutrition
> >
> > warm regards, Jake
>
> That ALA being referred to there is not alpha-lipioic acid. It is alpha-linolenic acid, the omega-3 fatty acid that we are supposed to be able to form those lovely long-chain omega-3s from, but really can't. That's why I prefer ALNA as the contraction for this fatty acid. AlphaLinoleNic Acid. To distinguish it from linoleic acid. You hardly miss the n.
>
> Alphalipoic acid is also known as 5-(1,2-dithiolan-3-yl)pentanoic acid.
>
> Alpha-linolenic acid is also known as all-cis-9,12,15-octadecatrienoic acid.
>
> Just because it was in another thread, gamma-linolenic acid is all-cis-6,9,12-octadecatrienoic acid.
>
> And looking at those two, I realize I made a mistake with something else I said, earlier, in that other thread. I'm too tired to sort it out, but I have some fixing to do.
>
> (Note to self: Verify, verify, verify. That is twice this week.....)
>
> Chemists prefer the names with all those numbers in them because they simply cannot be confused. Except if you aren't a chemist, because they are inately confusing.
>
> Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 13, 2006, at 7:36:16
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doc » Larry Hoover, posted by Jakeman on May 31, 2006, at 21:43:08
> Lar, ok good, that's an important distinction that I glossed over. I think I get it now. Thanks for the clarification. ALNA.
>
> warm regards, JakeYes, it is an important distinction. It took me quite a while to shake off my own confusion. Damn common names. That's why chemists hate common names. That's why we invented IUPAC names.
Alpha-linolenic acid (ALNA) intake increases your requirement for alphalipoic acid (ALA).
The freaky fact is, I believe flax happens to be a source of both of them. If not, I'm still not completed purged of the confusion, myself.
Lar
Posted by cardinaldirection on June 13, 2006, at 11:25:22
In reply to Re: First time I was prescribed a vitamin by a doc » Jakeman, posted by Larry Hoover on June 13, 2006, at 7:36:16
dont think it contains alpha lipoic, but linolenic, linolec, and oleic... the three omegas. im not entirely positive though.
>
> Yes, it is an important distinction. It took me quite a while to shake off my own confusion. Damn common names. That's why chemists hate common names. That's why we invented IUPAC names.
>
> Alpha-linolenic acid (ALNA) intake increases your requirement for alphalipoic acid (ALA).
>
> The freaky fact is, I believe flax happens to be a source of both of them. If not, I'm still not completed purged of the confusion, myself.
>
> Lar
This is the end of the thread.
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