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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by john berk on April 28, 2006, at 0:11:57
In reply to Re: DLPA » john berk, posted by curtm on April 27, 2006, at 14:46:03
that's great information, thank you curtm, i have only used 1000 mgs.[in 500 mg. doses] tops, i would love to find an alternative to my present meds, this gives me something excellent to think about, thanks again...john
Posted by curtm on April 28, 2006, at 0:11:57
In reply to Re: DLPA » curtm, posted by john berk on April 27, 2006, at 15:44:26
Excuse me. One more question John. You are taking DLPA (has both d and L), not d-phenylalanine or L-phenylalanine, right? because I only found DLPA in 400mg and the other two in 500mg.
Posted by john berk on April 28, 2006, at 0:11:57
In reply to Re: DLPA, posted by curtm on April 27, 2006, at 15:52:50
oops, i thought there was a difference, i am taking just the l-phenylalanine, but my health food store carries the DLPA, i should have picked up on that, i will try the DLPA, thanks,i very much appreciate it...john
Posted by curtm on April 28, 2006, at 0:11:57
In reply to Re: DLPA » curtm, posted by john berk on April 27, 2006, at 16:01:37
Posted by Crazy Horse on April 28, 2006, at 0:11:57
In reply to Re: DLPA » curtm, posted by john berk on April 27, 2006, at 14:13:23
>
> Hi, I actually just took 1 capsule 15 minutes ago, 3 p.m. EST. I have used it off and on for quite awhile, i used to love to take it before i jogged, it gave me a slightly added boost, and i seemed to feel more of an urge to keep going, more endurance!!
> i think it is a really good supplement, but i would try not to take it too late in the evening, it could cause insomnia, or trouble falling off to sleep anyway...john
Hi John,How are you? Hope you're doing well...i'll send you an email tomorrow. DLPA sounds good to me..I wonder is it safe to take with an MAOI? I would definitely try it if it is maoi compatable.
Take care bud. :)Monte
Posted by john berk on April 28, 2006, at 0:11:57
In reply to Re: DLPA/ More info » john berk, posted by curtm on April 27, 2006, at 16:12:24
Thanks for the link curt, very informative, i thought there was something in DLPA for chronic pain, i am sure my mom could use that for her arthritis of the knee, i'm going to get some for her and i tomorrow...john
Posted by john berk on April 28, 2006, at 0:11:58
In reply to Re: DLPA/ More info, posted by willyee on April 27, 2006, at 16:31:50
Hi Willyee,
thanks for all the great info. i have used arginine for bodybuiding, have you ever tryed the NO release, expensive stuff, but it is supposed to be very effective!!can i ask you a question Will? When you take taurine, do you just take the caps from the healthfood store? is it able to cross the blood brain barrier? The reason i ask is they know have campral out for getting GABA and Tuarine better in the system, but it is so expensive, i would much rather just take the capsules.
do you get yours at GNC? thanks so much for all the info....john
Posted by john berk on April 28, 2006, at 0:11:58
In reply to Re: DLPA » john berk, posted by Crazy Horse on April 27, 2006, at 16:57:23
Hi Monte, willyee or curt would probably know a great deal about the mixture of parnate with DLPA, i sure hope you can use it, it would probably give you a good extra boost.
take care, talk to you soon....john
Posted by blueberry on April 28, 2006, at 0:11:58
In reply to DLPA, posted by curtm on April 27, 2006, at 10:44:48
I tried DLPA a couple times. The first time I felt absolutely perfect, as normal as could be in I don't know how many years, after a few hours. Later in the day I got kind of depressed. Had terrible insomnia. The next morning I was quite depressed. I also felt kind of crazy in a way.
The second time, same thing.
Though it was absolutely helpful on the first day, it felt like it threw something else way out of balance.
Posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2006, at 0:11:58
In reply to Re: DLPA, posted by blueberry on April 27, 2006, at 18:35:43
So you wouldn't recommend it for depression predominately anxiety? Love Phillipa
Posted by blueberry on April 28, 2006, at 0:11:58
In reply to DLPA, posted by curtm on April 27, 2006, at 10:44:48
The thing about DLPA or tyrosine that scares me is that there is no longterm proof of effectiveness that I am aware of. Way back in the 1980's there was a clinical study where they used I think only 150mg and the response rate was phenomenal after a month. But what about after 3 months? A year? Ya know?
There was another study where they used DLPA for ADD. It worked great. But after 3 months every single one of the patients had relapsed.
I worry that with DLPA or tyrosine there is a tolerance buildup. I would love to hear stories that doesn't happen though. That would definitely be encouraging.
Posted by willyee on April 28, 2006, at 0:11:58
In reply to Re: DLPA/ More info » willyee, posted by john berk on April 27, 2006, at 18:00:41
> Hi Willyee,
> thanks for all the great info. i have used arginine for bodybuiding, have you ever tryed the NO release, expensive stuff, but it is supposed to be very effective!!
>
> can i ask you a question Will? When you take taurine, do you just take the caps from the healthfood store? is it able to cross the blood brain barrier? The reason i ask is they know have campral out for getting GABA and Tuarine better in the system, but it is so expensive, i would much rather just take the capsules.
> do you get yours at GNC? thanks so much for all the info....john
Although there are tons of info about taurine on the net,here is a snip of a good article that gets right into the meaning fast."WHAT IS TAURINE?
Taurine is an amino acid which plays a major role in the brain as an "inhibitory" neurotransmitter & neuromodulator. It is similiar in structure to the amino acids GABA & L-Glycine, which are also neuroinhibitory. This means it helps to calm or stabilize an excited brain.
Taurine stabilizes nerve cell membranes thus depressing the firing of brain cells & dampening the nerve cell action of the excitatory amino acids, glutamate, aspartate, & quinolinate.
Taurine acts by regulating the sodium & potassium concentration in the cells & the magnesium level between the cells. This has everything to do with the electrical activity of the cells & subsequent communication between cells.
By this mechanism, it has anti-anxiety & anti-convulsant activity. It has also been found useful in some cases of migraine, insomnia, agitation, restlessness, irritability, alcoholism, obsessions, depression, hypomania/mania.
Dosage is from 500 mg twice daily to a total of 5000 mg daily in 3-4 divided doses, though I rarely recommend that high a dose. The total ideal body pool of taurine for adults is 12,000- 18,000 mg.
Since taurine also affects the hypothalamus to help regulate body temperature, a higher dose can decrease your temperature & give chilliness, so be aware of that.
Taurine also plays a role in memory & increases the level of a memory neurotransmitter, acetylcholine, in the brain (in animal studies).
"As far as personaly,there is a brand called COUNTRY LIFE,besides perosnaly feeling this brand is top quality from other supplements ive used in the past example KAVA KAVA WHERE I know i felt the difference,by general COUNTRY LIFE is a known quality brand,they are i believe PHARMCUTICAL grade over the counter supplements,and they make a TAB of taurine 500 mg a tab,includes a small amount of B6 that any good brand of a single amino will have,b6 aids in the absorbation.
Country lide brands of taurine should be found at most local health shops and at any general heatlh website,out of all the brands of taurine its the only one i use,country life and solgar are incredable brands,normaly when getting otc supplements somtimes its worth to spend the extra buck or two when its a company whos proven there reputability over time like country life,solgar,solaray opposaed to a low end product like NOW foods or a bran i really DISLIKE twin lab.
Posted by gibber on April 28, 2006, at 0:11:58
In reply to Re: DLPA/ More info, posted by willyee on April 27, 2006, at 21:10:37
Ok i'll relay my DLPA/MAOI story: At one point I was at 2000mg/day DLPA with 15mg of selegiline. A few studies show success/remission with this combination. However I did not get a real antidepressant response from this. I think it may have helped with the depression induced hypersomnia though. I have take DLPA as late as 9pm and not had a problem with sleep. Currently I'm taking 1000mg of dlpa and 35mg of selegiline and I'm a little better. Like in the post below about functionality, I think I'm a bit more functional on this regeme but I don't really feel much better. My doctor said it was OK to take phenyalalanine with Nardil or selegiline, even though in the literature this is not advised. MAO-B inhibition prevents the breakdown of Phenylethylamine which is a product of d-phenylalanine breakdown. To get phenylethylamine you need to take DLPA, because d-phenyalanine is not available by itself. I believe the build up of phenylethylamine is theoretically the key antidepressant in all of this. I have not experienced a strong response however. I have been getting my DLPA from the Vitamin Shoppe. Good Luck.
Posted by willyee on April 28, 2006, at 0:14:37
In reply to Re: DLPA/ More info » john berk, posted by curtm on April 27, 2006, at 16:12:24
Amino acid threrapy is pretty common,you have
l-arginine
lglutamineWhich body builders use for debatable GH release.
You have l-carntinine which again is debatable for fat loss.
I personaly like l-taurine which a lot of people use for mood stablization and anxiety.
However,and the body builders talk about this a lot,just because its natural doesent exculde it from being cautious,when u present the brain/body with an over-abundance of a amino acid,then its no longer NATURAL,the body makes these on its own naturaly,or supplementing them in specific amounts is natural,however what they call MEGADOSING them to achieve a therputic effect is along the same lines of medication,Yess u dont have the toxcity of the fillers and binders of drugs,however u can can quickly cause an imbalance in amino ratios......excitaory-inhibatory or just a general imbalance by overloading a single one.
This is why most who do so CYCLE the supplementation,giving the body a change to re adjust.
That aside there are a lot of articles on studies where deprenyl was included with dlpa,which ehanced its effect,i recomend doing a google on l-deprenyl,dlpa,depression.Also supplementing aminos,best thing is to take with a carb juice drink to drive the amino,and to be sure no protein is taken an hour before or after,or the amino will bind to the protein and will no longer be entering as a single amino and providing the effect u want.
L-trypothan before its ban was suppsedly used A LOT for sleep,conspirsats believe it was knocked out of the market as not to provide a viable serotion option to the then newly comming ssris.L-dopa is also another amino made drug used for parkinsons,good luck,there are tons and tons of amino acid information out there in regards to them being used in a medicinal type of fashion.
Posted by curtm on April 28, 2006, at 8:57:32
In reply to Re: DLPA/ More info » willyee, posted by john berk on April 27, 2006, at 18:00:41
I have tried pure NO release arginine in powder form (dissolving capsules) to improve assimilation of other supplements. It is also very good for blood vessel health and structure. At first it made my vessels dialate and you could see them bulging. When my arms were down, I could feel the pressure pushing into my wrists and hands. It was uncomfortable and felt a little crampy. When I lifted everyday items, I could feel the pressure increase. I wondered what would happen if I did work out on the stuff if a would get a hematoma or something. I still continued taking it moderately. Thankfully the sensation subsided after a few days. I would consult a pharmacist (seems like doctors always say they would't recommend supplements and herbal emedies.
Posted by curtm on April 28, 2006, at 9:31:15
In reply to Re: DLPA, posted by blueberry on April 27, 2006, at 20:25:14
As I think might have been mentioned above, DLPA should only be taken for about 3 months, then a refractory period of an equal amount of time should be taken, as it is a natural amino produced by the body. This keeps the body's chemical production regular. Over the course of 3 months, it will feel like you are feeling less and less effect from it. See, at first the natural production of DLPA is combined with the supplement. then the body slows it's own production of it.
It's sort of like when steroids are taken to boost testosterone, the body will eventually think it doesnt need to produce it anymore. That's why men and women can develop complications with hormone levels after discontinuing it.
DLPA assimilates in the body rapidly, that is why the effect seems to take effect rapidly and wear off rapidly. What I did was start with a low dose 400mg once a day, then twice, then three times. Then I started taking 800mg 1,2,3 times a day. Max. recommended dose should not exceed 3600 (per pharmacist recommendation) which at that point I felt no increased effect, prbably because I had hit the 3 month time frame about the same time.
As far as the feeling lethargic sensation in the afternoon, the multiple doses throughout the day should eliminate that. Of course, as with any med or supplement added to your body, you need to be aware of the changes you feel. If you feel extremely uncomfortable, then discontinue. If it is only minor, then perhaps give it a few more days.
Posted by Jimmyboy on April 28, 2006, at 11:01:13
In reply to Re: DLPA » blueberry, posted by curtm on April 28, 2006, at 9:31:15
Curtm,
Found your post interesting because I started taking 5 mg of selegiline and 500 mg of DLPA back in early January and got a great response with it, it has been far and away the best thing I have ever taken for depression. But in the last few weeks I have noticed that it seems to be working less and less , so I am thinking your theory is correct..
I had the same thing happen last summer with Sam-e , it worked great for 3 months and then quit working . Do you think alternating between the DLPA and Sam-e would be a feasible option ?
I have had no luck with prescription AD's so I don't want to try that route again. Any advice from anyone would be much appreciated . Thanks,
Jim
> As I think might have been mentioned above, DLPA should only be taken for about 3 months, then a refractory period of an equal amount of time should be taken, as it is a natural amino produced by the body. This keeps the body's chemical production regular. Over the course of 3 months, it will feel like you are feeling less and less effect from it. See, at first the natural production of DLPA is combined with the supplement. then the body slows it's own production of it.
>
> It's sort of like when steroids are taken to boost testosterone, the body will eventually think it doesnt need to produce it anymore. That's why men and women can develop complications with hormone levels after discontinuing it.
>
> DLPA assimilates in the body rapidly, that is why the effect seems to take effect rapidly and wear off rapidly. What I did was start with a low dose 400mg once a day, then twice, then three times. Then I started taking 800mg 1,2,3 times a day. Max. recommended dose should not exceed 3600 (per pharmacist recommendation) which at that point I felt no increased effect, prbably because I had hit the 3 month time frame about the same time.
>
> As far as the feeling lethargic sensation in the afternoon, the multiple doses throughout the day should eliminate that. Of course, as with any med or supplement added to your body, you need to be aware of the changes you feel. If you feel extremely uncomfortable, then discontinue. If it is only minor, then perhaps give it a few more days.
Posted by curtm on April 28, 2006, at 11:33:13
In reply to Re: DLPA » curtm, posted by Jimmyboy on April 28, 2006, at 11:01:13
> I had the same thing happen last summer with Sam-e , it worked great for 3 months and then quit working . Do you think alternating between the DLPA and Sam-e would be a feasible option ?
I can't think of any reason that wouldn't be feasable. You could even shorten the duration that you take each one to keep your chemicals from undergoing greater changes...
As posted above, there are more aminos you could add to your revolving cycle for best results perhaps.
Maybe your body over time will be accustomed to slightly higher levels of each and increase its own production...but that is purely speculation. They do work better when your natural levels are lower than they need to be to begin with.
Posted by Jimmyboy on April 28, 2006, at 15:01:28
In reply to Re: DLPA » Jimmyboy, posted by curtm on April 28, 2006, at 11:33:13
Curtm,
In your last message you mentioned trying some of the other supplements mentioned in the above posts. Do you ( or anyone else out there..) know of any amino acids or supplements that will boost your supply of dopamine like the Phenylalanine /selegiline combo I have been taking?
I know I mentioned taking Sam-e as a possible replacement to cycle with, but after taking it today , I remember why I don;t really like it, it makes me anxious and irritable to the point of discomfort.. so I am hoping there is an another alternative. Anyone know of any??
Thanks,
Jim
Posted by willyee on April 29, 2006, at 18:16:01
In reply to Re: DLPA » curtm, posted by Jimmyboy on April 28, 2006, at 15:01:28
Not that it helps,but the amino acid l-dopa of course,but this is unfortunatly a actual prescription drug now for parkinson,besides i have heard from personal stories of people who got a hold of it and the response was not as one would think,again i dont think this depression thing is as simple as boositng any of the main nueros,i think low levels of them when tested are just a END RESULT to a bigger problem which is why when we raise them with drugs/nutrients we get partial response then we SAY it poops out but maybe were just providing the brain with too much of a chemical,and its not what the problem ailes for,just my theory.
Posted by linkadge on April 29, 2006, at 22:08:20
In reply to Re: DLPA, posted by willyee on April 29, 2006, at 18:16:01
Depressive symptoms could range from a whole host of different underlying structural and biochemical problems.
The likelyhood of nailing the entire problem with one and only one amino acid might be rare, but it could be a start.
Sleep and anxiety are big things. When they're out of whack it can cause a lot of other bad downstream problems. So if supplements can help improve sleep and reduce daytime anxiety, you're probably going to move to a more healing state.
Of course I don't know, but I think that things like vitamins, exercise etc, could work to reduce some of the biochemical changes that happen in depression.
For instance, high doses of vitamin C, can reduce the amount of circulating cortisol during stressfull events. This might spare the hippocampus from the dammaging effects of high cortisol.
Some people's depression might respond to single amino acids. Parkinsons disease for instance, responds to single amino acids.
Just rambling here really.
Linkadge
Posted by curtm on May 1, 2006, at 8:57:40
In reply to Re: DLPA » curtm, posted by Jimmyboy on April 28, 2006, at 15:01:28
>> Do you ( or anyone else out there..) know of any amino acids or supplements that will boost your supply of dopamine like the Phenylalanine /selegiline combo I have been taking?
Some were mentioned above, but follow this link. They are in there too. There are a lot of 'em.
http://www.thenaturalshopper.com/beeproductinfo/amino-acids.htm
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2006, at 10:59:05
In reply to Re: DLPA » Jimmyboy, posted by curtm on May 1, 2006, at 8:57:40
> >> Do you ( or anyone else out there..) know of any amino acids or supplements that will boost your supply of dopamine like the Phenylalanine /selegiline combo I have been taking?
>
> Some were mentioned above, but follow this link. They are in there too. There are a lot of 'em.
>
> http://www.thenaturalshopper.com/beeproductinfo/amino-acids.htmCurt, you were doing fine (mid thread on), until you got to this. Bee products are food. There is little that is special about their amino content. Most people who use aminos use boluses of pure aminos.....large doses of pure aminos, all by themselves, on an empty stomach. That's how you create an abnormal blood concentration ratio of that one amino. It's only a manipulation of that ratio, though, if you use lone pure aminos. One at a time. Maybe two.
Lar
Posted by dejablu503 on June 3, 2006, at 22:28:19
In reply to Re: DLPA, posted by blueberry on April 27, 2006, at 20:25:14
I have been using DLPA for treatment of agoraphobia since 1986...I have had no recurrance of panic, no mobility or social limitations, and no reduction in how it helps me control the anxiety.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2006, at 6:37:25
In reply to Re: DLPA » blueberry, posted by dejablu503 on June 3, 2006, at 22:28:19
> I have been using DLPA for treatment of agoraphobia since 1986...I have had no recurrance of panic, no mobility or social limitations, and no reduction in how it helps me control the anxiety.
Excellent! Excellent feedback.
Lar
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