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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jimmyboy on January 4, 2006, at 23:21:40
I just started this combo (selegiline 5 mg D-phenylalanine 500mg) last week and I immediately ( within 2 days) started feeling a lot better.
I mean better than I have in many many years. ( but not manic/ hypomanic .. i still can focus,not grandiose, etc.)
I have tried so many meds out there and either couldn't tolerate the side effects or they didn't work. But this is feels different.. alert, happy, more social, etc..
Q: Does anyone have any long term experience with this combo? Did it quit working for you?
Also - I don't know the technical " diagnosis" but 10 yrs ago I had a manic episode ( triggered by Zoloft) ... should I be concerned that this combo could trigger mania also? That is the last thing I need ...
Thanks for the info
JIm
Posted by linkadge on January 4, 2006, at 23:21:40
In reply to Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by Jimmyboy on January 4, 2006, at 15:20:58
I suppose a manic reaction is always possable, but some people only have manic reactions to serotonergic medications, so it is not necessarily a sure thing.
Linkadge
Posted by Jimmyboy on January 4, 2006, at 23:21:40
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by linkadge on January 4, 2006, at 16:38:14
Linkadge ( or anyone) , do you know if it is more common to have manic reactions to seratonin effecting drugs, than say... what I am taking?
Posted by linkadge on January 4, 2006, at 23:21:40
In reply to Re: mania caused by serotonin drugs » linkadge, posted by Jimmyboy on January 4, 2006, at 18:13:32
I don't know if the rates of mania vary between classes of drugs. But it has been recognized that some people have had manic reactions to one class of drugs but not another.
Deprenly is a MAO-B inhibitor. MAO-B metabolizes a trace amine called phenylethylamine (PEA). By taking deprenly plus a PEA precursor, you will mainly be boosting PEA neurotransmission.
See
Linkadge
Posted by willyee on January 4, 2006, at 23:21:41
In reply to Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by Jimmyboy on January 4, 2006, at 15:20:58
Your combo is pretty well tried,deprenyl with either l-phen or dlpa is talked a lot about over in smart drugs probuably because there was a whole chapter on it in a old book you might have read SMART DRUGS AND NUTRIENTS.
If its working for you thats great,even more great is you probuably would have already noticed agigtation and anxiety if this wasnt a GOOD combo for you.
Not saying it wont eventualy happen but i think your in a good spot,many people cant tolerate deprenyl alone nevertheless in addition to such a stimulating amino acid.
I personaly noticed klonopin works extremly well at surpressing excess stimulation from deprenyl.
In the book its recomended if this happens to use a serotion substance,but again i found klonopin to totaly qwell a deprenyl overload.
Perhaps its because if im not mistaken klonopin aside from gaba does have some affect on serotion as well.
Too make a long story short,id embrace the postive,and keep klonopin on hand,if you see mania comming in first try to cut back on the l-phen and lower the deprenyl,if that doesent work i wouldent hesitate to use klonopin,all in all the amount of klonopin needed will be a minor inconvienace if ur getting a robust response from this combination........it is said to be a great combo for a healthy brain
Posted by Jimmyboy on January 4, 2006, at 23:21:41
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by willyee on January 4, 2006, at 20:52:13
Thanks for the comments guys...
After trying so many different medicines and combinations, I think I may have finally found "the one" for me. Only took 12 years! Better late than never : ) I would have never even heard of that if it wasn't for this board. Thanks again,
Jim
Posted by gibber on January 5, 2006, at 0:08:14
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by Jimmyboy on January 4, 2006, at 21:34:59
Jimmyboy,
I noticed you took many other meds. Did you ever take Nardil. If so what was your response? I'm at 60mg of nardil after 5 weeks and have noticed only a partial response. I'll be sticking it out for a while on nardil, but I;ve always been curious about selegiline, especially for mental sluggishness. Thanks for your input.
Posted by willyee on January 5, 2006, at 9:42:34
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by gibber on January 5, 2006, at 0:08:14
Im hanging on for emsam as well,im on parnate and augmented it to hell,im ready to get off!!!
Posted by Jimmyboy on January 6, 2006, at 9:26:00
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by gibber on January 5, 2006, at 0:08:14
No gibber, I have never taken Nardil, I did consider trying to get on it at one point , but never did.
As for the selegiline for mental sluggishness.. I don't know how it would act alone but combined with the Phenylalanine, it definitely boosts alertness for me, I can tell when it kicks in about 20 minutes after i take it in the morning.
Another nice side effect of the selegiline, at least for me, at the low dose I'm on ( and I have seen this alot on the board) is that it definitely boosts your libido... alot. Can't say that for many Ad's out there. That alone makes me happier : ) Good luck.
Jim
Posted by Declan on January 6, 2006, at 18:24:54
In reply to Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by Jimmyboy on January 4, 2006, at 15:20:58
Hi Jimmy
My only problem with it was sleep maintenance. I am very sensitive when on deprenyl/selegeline to any phenylalanine, tyrosine etc. Even on 1mg/d.
On 5mg/d selegeline I got the falling in love delicious feeling, PEA I guess.
Declan
Posted by gibber on January 6, 2006, at 23:49:19
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by Declan on January 6, 2006, at 18:24:54
What's PEA Declan? Anybody who's tried selegiline been on nardil?
Posted by blueberry on January 7, 2006, at 6:39:34
In reply to Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by Jimmyboy on January 4, 2006, at 15:20:58
I only tried 500mg d-phenylalanine for one day and had mixed results, but it is still onhand for another sample test. Maybe I'll dump some out of the capsule and make it 250mg, or just mix some in with some protein powder or something.
The one day I tried it I noticed I had a very nice calm relaxed connected conversation with someone...very strange for me. I like it. Warm and somewhat motivated. But later in the day it turned into a sort of fear state, easy to startle, the phone ringing made me jump, and then I had intense insomnia similar to amphetamine, and I slept horrible. The next day though was a pretty darn good day.
There were things I didn't like...such as the "startleness" and the insomnia...but there were things I really like a lot. I did not get those good things from tyrosine, l-phenylalanine, or dl-phenylalanine...only from d-phenylalanine.
Posted by Declan on January 7, 2006, at 7:27:54
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me » Declan, posted by gibber on January 6, 2006, at 23:49:19
PEA = phenylethylamine, I think, and is a chemical we have in us that might be implicated in depression.
Posted by Jimmyboy on January 7, 2006, at 12:26:05
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by blueberry on January 7, 2006, at 6:39:34
I am taking the d variety of the phenylalanine and have been having good results, so I am not tempted to change.. but what was the difference in how the D and the L made you feel?
Jim
Posted by cache-monkey on January 7, 2006, at 14:15:33
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by Declan on January 6, 2006, at 18:24:54
Hi Declan,
I just started a thread on selegiline and sleepiness on the main board. (Although it might get redirected over here...) Your input (and others in this thread) would be greatly appreciated.
Link to thread:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20051231/msgs/596244.htmlBest,
cache-monkey
Posted by linkadge on January 7, 2006, at 17:52:15
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me » Declan, posted by cache-monkey on January 7, 2006, at 14:15:33
Too much PEA neurotransmission may make you nervous and even mildly paranoid.
PEA is called the endogenious amphetamine. Drugs tha enhance PEA activity in animals can somtimes induce steriotypic behavior associated with other stimulants.
High levels of PEA have been found in paranoid schitsophrenia, for instance.
While PEA levels may be low in certain depressions, it is usefull to be aware of some of the signs that the system may be overactive.
Linkadge
Posted by robot on January 7, 2006, at 18:53:01
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by linkadge on January 7, 2006, at 17:52:15
I just want to say Im very glad this works for some people. Just be careful. Selegiline is classed as a permanent MAO, which does not mean it is actually 'forever' but it does mean that once it is in your system, it attaches to those enzymes until those enzymes are replaced by new ones in a few weeks or so. My detail may be a little wrong, but thats pretty much how it works.
My story: I took 2 starting doses of this stuff and it made me universally *scared*. I was scared of the present, the future, the past, myself, everwhere. I was scared of drinking a glass of water! I am NOT joking. So as experiments go, this one is risky.
I would take super small dose and just wait a couple of days before doing anymore. And have some anxiety med like clonazepam on hand. (Maybe thats a good idea when youre trying anything.)
Posted by Declan on January 7, 2006, at 19:16:25
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by robot on January 7, 2006, at 18:53:01
Hi Robot
How much selegeline did you take? Something like two lots of 5mg?
I wouldn't like to be on much of it. The highest I ever went was 7.5mg/d and normally never above 2.5mg/d.
Since I've stopped it I sleep better. No problems stopping at all, even after the best part of 10 years.
Declan
Posted by linkadge on January 7, 2006, at 20:03:04
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by robot on January 7, 2006, at 18:53:01
"universally *scared*"
WOW, that is a great way to describe the way I felt too when I took parnate (a mixed MAO-A MAO-B inhibitor.
I was also eating chocolate and exercising too much (exercise increases PEA neurotransmission).
Basically, I felt like I had slipped into an altanate dimention. The whole world seemed so foregin. I felt like God was trying to tell me things (even more so than normal!).
It was very very scary. More depth to my emotion than I could handle. I was revealed to all my deception and all my lies at once, more guilt than I could handle, more guilt than I could find excuses for. It was intense! Usually I feel like my past lies are in the past.
But when I discontinued it, the opposite happened for a while. I felt euphoric. I felt absolved, forgiven.
Linkadge
Posted by robot on January 8, 2006, at 0:02:27
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by Declan on January 7, 2006, at 19:16:25
yeah, I just rummaged through and found the bottle: 5mg one day, then the same the next. But I think the first one would have done it by itself.
It seems like if it worked for you, you could just take it once a week or something. But I guess it doesnt work that way.> Hi Robot
>
> How much selegeline did you take? Something like two lots of 5mg?
>
> I wouldn't like to be on much of it. The highest I ever went was 7.5mg/d and normally never above 2.5mg/d.
>
> Since I've stopped it I sleep better. No problems stopping at all, even after the best part of 10 years.
>
> Declan
Posted by Declan on January 8, 2006, at 0:49:12
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by linkadge on January 7, 2006, at 20:03:04
Link, that sounds like a form of religious experience.
I read about a bloke with OCD who felt that if he did not make completely sure that his lawn was free of leaves, his (dead) parents would be demoted from heaven to hell. The drugs didn't work, neither did religion, and then he had a cingulotomy (I think) and that didn't work either.
Declan
Posted by linkadge on January 12, 2006, at 8:32:00
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me » linkadge, posted by Declan on January 8, 2006, at 0:49:12
The thing is that I havn't had such an experience before or since. It doesn't even make a lot of sence to me.
The parnate was contributing to some sleep deprivation as well, so I think it was a combination of things.
Linkadge
Posted by helpme on July 4, 2006, at 19:17:28
In reply to Re: Selegiline Phenylalanine combo works for me, posted by linkadge on January 12, 2006, at 8:32:00
What's the difference between the D and the L?If you google med-abstracts, there is a lot of research out there confirming phenylalanine significantly boosts effectiveness of selegeline! Wonder if same is true for EMSAM version? I'm feeling...it's not.
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