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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by MM on September 6, 2005, at 7:35:53
I've read that exercise lowers cortisol, but I've also read that it increases it, at least while exercising (which probably explains why I get panic attacks/irritabilit/rage after exercising sometimes) so I'm wondering how good exercising is for stress? I think cortisol/stress is probably the most influential factor in my "mood disorder." Does exercise help enough over the long run that the temporary increase in cortisol isn't a big deal? Will it stop increasing cortisol after doing it regularly for a certain amount of time? Would the anxiety etc. (that comes right after exercising) go away after a while? I always do it regularly for a few weeks (like 3) and then get off of it for a few weeks (2-3) so I'm not sure if it's effective for my mood so far, although I do notice a better mood for at least a day after to an extent. Pardon the babbling...I've been up all night (bad, bad, I know). Any answers/replies would be great. Thanks.
Meg
Posted by willyee on September 7, 2005, at 6:03:12
In reply to Exercise to lower cortisol?, posted by MM on September 6, 2005, at 7:35:53
I too excersise very hard,and i do not find it helpful for my anxiety or depression.
Im at a high stress level as im doing it and after,in fact i always make sure i take me med after,so as not to take the med only to have it ruined by one of my workouts.
I know they say excersise is the best thing,but honestly i hate it,it makes me very high strung,and before during and after i am the furthest from RELAXED and CALM as one could be.
I also dont see the big deal about the release in endorphins either,having a nice icecream raises my pleasure level ten fold compared to a jog lol.
I work out hard since 16,i often wonder if that plays a role in my current mental condtiion,lol there ya go a ear full right back at ya.
Posted by linkadge on September 12, 2005, at 11:53:41
In reply to Re: Exercise to lower cortisol?, posted by willyee on September 7, 2005, at 6:03:12
Exercise regulates the same genes that control the HPA axis as drugs like imipramine.
Chronic exercise will also increase 5-ht1a receptor which will help controll anxiety.
Sometimes exercise doesn't mix with meds too well ( I know that sounds crazy )
Linkadge
Posted by JLx on September 14, 2005, at 20:23:50
In reply to Exercise to lower cortisol?, posted by MM on September 6, 2005, at 7:35:53
Perhaps you've already read these articles about cortisol and DHEA: http://www.drdebe.com/fitness.htm and http://www.drdebe.com/DHEA.htm
"It is critically important to understand that mental-emotional strain is only one of many different things the body perceives as stress. Two of cortisol's main functions are to raise blood sugar levels and to reduce inflammation. Thus, cortisol levels increase in response to drops in blood sugar and the presence of inflammation. Other types of stress include: chronic pain, chronic illness, chronic/severe allergies, trauma/injury, temperature extremes, surgery, toxic exposure, chronic or severe infections, late hours/insufficient sleep, light cycle disruption (as in working night shifts), and excessive exercise. That's right. Excessive exercise results in elevated cortisol to DHEA ratios. Over enthusiasm about exercise can easily produce cortisol-DHEA imbalance. In addition to overtraining, the three most common stressors to be concerned about are mental-emotional stress, dysglycemia (blood sugar fluctuation), and inflammation."
If I could afford it, I would defintely have these two things tested. Since I can't, I do take DHEA and have for several years. Unless over 40 that's probably not recommended. It was interesting though that he says that DHEA is NOT necessarily related to age, that even people in their 20's might be low and someone in 80's might be ok.
He mentions blood sugar fluctuations, which is something I hadn't realized or perhaps forgot! I did read "The Cortisol Connection" a couple years back and thought it was pretty good, but somewhat deficient in the female hormonal perspective. Talbott is a sports medicine guy primarily. Here's an article by him: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0675/is_6_21/ai_113852511
"Aside from avoiding stimulants, such as caffeine, ephedra and synephrine (which can increase cortisol levels when used for more than a few weeks), a variety of dietary supplements can help keep cortisol levels within normal ranges, even when a person is stressed. The first step is to take a daily multivitamin/mineral containing, at a minimum, calcium, magnesium, vitamin C and B-complex vitamins to help modulate the general stress response. For specific cortisol control, the most effective supplements include a variety of plant extracts, such as magnolia bark, epimedium, theanine, beta-sitosterol and phosphatidylserine. Many of these natural products provide a convenient approach for many people subjected to daily emotional and physical stressors."
In general, what I glean from these is that overexercising and/or high stress otherwise that has elevated cortisol in general, results in a longer lag time following exercise to go back to even that formerly highish level, resulting in exercise not feeling good or helpful. The answer seems to be to reduce/regulate cortisol that's always circulating in the body from stress by such as eating more often, lower glycemic index foods especially, and possibly decreasing exercise until more balanced.
Another thing that Talbott mentioned in his book was getting to sleep before 10 p.m. He explained the normal biological cortisol rise and fall throughout our natural day/night cycle and how we screw that up by overstimulating ourselves in the evening, in well lighted rooms especially. He said that sleeping between 10 p.m. and midnight was extremely important. I've read that elsewhere too. I started trying to do that after I read the book and it's true that it's something I can really feel the benefit of, but it's so hard for this natural night owl. ;)
I'm going to try phosphatidylserine for memory, and now also to reduce cortisol. I ordered some bulk powder from Beyond a Century today as it was a lot cheaper that way.
JL
Posted by linkadge on September 17, 2005, at 14:55:36
In reply to Re: Exercise to lower cortisol? » MM, posted by JLx on September 14, 2005, at 20:23:50
I have found that excessive exercise is the only thing that keeps my depression in check.
PEA keeps increasing even after about 2 hours. And BDNF (at least in mice) only becomes maximally elevated after what appears to be excessive exercise.
I need at least an 1.5 hours to maintain reduced suicidiality.
Linkadge
Posted by Sarah T. on September 17, 2005, at 16:18:17
In reply to define excessive exercise, posted by linkadge on September 17, 2005, at 14:55:36
> > PEA keeps increasing even after about 2 hours. And BDNF (at least in mice) only becomes maximally elevated after what appears to be excessive exercise.> > I need at least an 1.5 hours to maintain reduced suicidiality.>>> Linkadge>>>
Hi there, Linkadge,
Do you mean that PEA keeps increasing only if you've exercised for more than two hours, or that PEA continues to increase for more than two hours after exercising?I've read that, in some people, vigorous (whatever the heck that means) exercise suppresses melatonin for about 12-13 hours, so that exercising too late in the day can delay sleep onset. I've found that applies to me, but I know a lot of people who exercise after work, yet they have no trouble falling asleep a few hours later.
I exercise (usually vigorous swimming) for about 40-45 minutes every day. A few times a week, I'm able to do only 30-35 minutes. The mood-lifting effects last until the following morning when I wake up. Then I feel like s**t again, and have to start all over. As I've said before, just call me Sisyphus.
Posted by JLx on September 17, 2005, at 19:42:12
In reply to define excessive exercise, posted by linkadge on September 17, 2005, at 14:55:36
> I have found that excessive exercise is the only thing that keeps my depression in check.
I don't know what that doctor meant by it, but I'd say if it helps like that, then it's not excessive.
If it's the opposite, making a person feel strung out and stressed, then it may be excessive.
JL
Posted by JLx on September 20, 2005, at 8:14:39
In reply to Exercise to lower cortisol?, posted by MM on September 6, 2005, at 7:35:53
I was looking something else up and ran across this comment from Larry http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030402/msgs/216187.html
Thought you might find it interesting:
"With respect to cortisol release and exercise. All exercise increases cortisol release. Exercise is used as an experimentally-controlled variable to induce cortisol release, both in man, and laboratory animals. This is an acute response. Stress reduction from exercise is more likely mediated by other hormones released during exertion. These other hormones help to balance out the body's response to cortisol. IMHO, it's the lack of balancing hormones which makes for the cortisol/stress correlation."
JL
Posted by tealady on October 7, 2005, at 18:23:46
In reply to Re: define excessive exercise » linkadge, posted by JLx on September 17, 2005, at 19:42:12
Excessice exercise is when your body starts coming down with lot infections, viruses etc. Your immune system is weakened by excessive exercise.
..usually experienced by those who overtrain as in marathon runners who compete in too many events etc.I've even read that may this can cause cancer in later life. Probably not PROVED..Mercola had something on this http://www.mercola.com/blog/2005/jun/21/you_can_exercise_too_much
Basically if it hurts to much for too long its your body saying this level is not good for you..hence the pain:) ..IMHO only
I think some people get such a kick from the highs they get addicted, but if you start coming down too easily with everything its time to back off a little.
A simplified link with cortisol, I suspect, would be, that exercise presumably increases adrenaline/noradrelaline?
I think cortisol is consumed in bringing these back to normal levels. (if needed more up to a point your body will release more free cortisol from that bound with Cortisol Binding Globulin..but only up to the point it HAS it in bound form)
Too much exercise consumes too much cortisol.. hence your immune system (which cortisol HELPS) weakens.
Stress is similar toe exercise in the way it consumes cortisol by raising the norarenaline /adrenaline ..and the way that this can caused increased cortisol at the start or lowere levels, but concume all the cortisol and lead to the body getting sick at higher levels over longer periods of time.
OK if I got this wrong please correct me..constructive critism of ideas most welcome as always.
Jan
PS 2 more weeks of uni, ten exams over here ..phew
Posted by tealady on October 7, 2005, at 18:47:27
In reply to Re: define excessive exercise » linkadge, posted by JLx on September 17, 2005, at 19:42:12
Excessive exercise is when your body starts coming down with lot infections, viruses etc. Your immune system is weakened by excessive exercise.
..usually experienced by those who overtrain as in marathon runners who compete in too many events etc.I've even read that may this can cause cancer in later life. Probably not PROVED..Mercola had something on this http://www.mercola.com/blog/2005/jun/21/you_can_exercise_too_much
Basically if it hurts to much for too long its your body saying this level is not good for you..hence the pain:) The pain is your body hinting it may be time to back off:)
I think some people get such a kick from the highs they get addicted, but if you picking up things too easily and frequently, its time to back off a little.
A simplified link with cortisol, I suspect, would be, that exercise presumably increases adrenaline/noradrenaline?
I think cortisol is consumed in bringing these back to normal levels.
Your body will release more free cortisol from that bound with Cortisol Binding Globulin..but only up to the point it HAS it in bound form), so it can only release more cortisolExcessive exercise is when your body starts coming down with lot infections, viruses etc. Your immune system is weakened by excessive exercise.
..usually experienced by those who overtrain as in marathon runners who compete in too many events etc.I've even read that may this can cause cancer in later life. Probably not PROVED..Mercola had something on this http://www.mercola.com/blog/2005/jun/21/you_can_exercise_too_much
Basically if it hurts to much for too long its your body saying this level is not good for you..hence the pain:) ..IMHO only
I think some people get such a kick from the highs they get addicted, but if you start coming down too easily with everything its time to back off a little.
(My logic only this para)..
A simplified link with cortisol, I suspect, would be, that exercise presumably increases adrenaline/noradrenaline?
Cortisol is consumed in bringing these back to normal levels. Your body will release more free cortisol from that bound with Cortisol Binding Globulin(CBG) on demand from the rise in adrenaline(noradrenaline) ..but only up to the point it HAS it in bound form.
So there is a limit to how much free cortisol your body can release on exercise to counteract the adrenaline surge.Also CBG is lowered if body is in poor condition..eg. diet poor, enviromental stress, emotional stress etc.TOO MUCH exercise consumes too much cortisol.. hence your immune system (which cortisol HELPS and is NEEDED for to reuce inflammation and help the immune system) weakens.
Stress is similar to exercise in the way it consumes cortisol by raising the noradrenaline /adrenaline, and also in the way that thsis release of cortisol can cause increased cortisol at the start or lower levels, but consume all the cortisol and lead to the body getting sick at higher levels over longer, more sustained, periods of time. Stress probably also reduced CBG, hence the store is not there and every little thing (I'm sure a lot here understand what I'm talking about) floor you!
OK if I got this wrong please correct me..constructive criticism of ideas most welcome as always.
Jan
PS 2 more weeks of uni, then exams over here ..phew
Posted by MM on October 19, 2005, at 6:42:12
In reply to Other hormones? » MM, posted by JLx on September 20, 2005, at 8:14:39
Thanks JL. I didn't even see this. So I guess regular exercise would probably be a good hormone balancer (over the long run)? That would be another motivation for me to do it regularly.
Posted by FireBreather on October 22, 2005, at 0:34:38
In reply to Re: Other hormones? » JLx, posted by MM on October 19, 2005, at 6:42:12
> Thanks JL. I didn't even see this. So I guess regular exercise would probably be a good hormone balancer (over the long run)? That would be another motivation for me to do it regularly.
You can get twice the runners high that intense exercise can give by eating extremely HOT foods, namely Habanero peppers or Pure Capsaicin extracts. Ive been doing this three times a week for 4 weeks now and have discovered some valuable and unanticipated results. Read my post below titled "Finally discovered how to augment adderall" Take Care
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