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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by RWF on August 1, 2005, at 8:08:27
Has anyone used this? Can you share your experiences?
I am med sensitive and fear this supplement for some reason.
Please help.
Posted by LOOPS on August 1, 2005, at 10:32:59
In reply to Does St. John's Wort work?, posted by RWF on August 1, 2005, at 8:08:27
Yes -
it can work - it did for me for awhile anyway. Different brands vary A LOT though. My favourite brand is Enzymatic Therapy which is both hypericin and hyperforin standardized - but it did make me feel a little woozy (but a nice woozy relaxed feeling). Other brands like GNC which are hypericin only used to make me wired. This is good if your depression is lethargic, but not if you are very anxious.
Just remember you can always stop if you don't like the effects, and don't start with a high dose if you're worried about it. Some people do well on a lower dose anyway.
I used to mix it with lithium orotate which really balanced me out. HOwever I found after about 6 months I had no motivation so ditched it in favour of fish oil. These days ANYTHING I take with the fish oil has a huge effect on me - like the fish oil amplifies my response to just about anything. Which is good.
Loops
Posted by linkadge on August 1, 2005, at 18:02:48
In reply to Re: Does St. John's Wort work?, posted by LOOPS on August 1, 2005, at 10:32:59
Fish oil is amazing isn't it. Dispite all the psyciatric drugs I've taken, fish oil has been a mainstay througought it all, over 5 years!
Linkadge
Posted by nolvas on August 1, 2005, at 18:29:34
In reply to Re: Does St. John's Wort work?, posted by linkadge on August 1, 2005, at 18:02:48
I notice fish oil mentioned a lot. I'm a vegetarian and therefore won't consume it. I do however take liquid Omega 3,6 and 9 oils made from flax, hemp, sesame, pumpkin and evening primose oil. So I'm wondering if it has to be fish oil to get desired effects or whether the vegetarian option is as effective.
I have tried St John's Wort a long time ago to see if it helped with my anxiety, it made me more irritable. I am med phobic as well and I'd rather try naturals alternatives instead. So I do understand, it took me a long while to try benzos and I was suprised when they worked and I felt better.
I think it's best to do some research on the supplement you want to try, there will always be people who say it made them feel ill, but you will find plenty who say a particular thing works. I find usually that the supplement generally has no effect rather than making me feel worse.
The only bad time I've had is when trying Phenibut. I took a large dose on top of a dose that I thought wasn't doing anything, then it hit me like a sledgehammer.
So my recommendation is do some research and take the lowest dose indicated for your condition and work from there.
Posted by linkadge on August 1, 2005, at 19:51:22
In reply to Re: Does St. John's Wort work?, posted by nolvas on August 1, 2005, at 18:29:34
Omega 3 comes in two forms. Omega 3 in fish oil containes long chain EPA and DHA, whereas a vegetarian form will probably contain flax seed oil. Your body can turn flax seed oil into EPA and DHA, but for some people this process works inefficiantly, that is why a source of EPA and DHA is preferred as it can cross the blood brain barrier and directly influence brain.
I personally would recomend fish oil over flax, as most studies done in psychiatric disorders have found that EPA/DHA have effect whereas flax does not.
Drug companies may be coming out with synthetic EPA and DHA, but untill then they can only be obtained from a marine source.
Linkadge
Posted by nolvas on August 2, 2005, at 16:53:42
In reply to Re: Does St. John's Wort work?, posted by linkadge on August 1, 2005, at 19:51:22
Thanks for that info. I'll have to wait until a vegetarian alternative appears on the market or maybe take something that helps the conversion to DHA and EPA.
I suffer from anxiety and haven't had a serious depressive episode since 1993. Obviously having anxiety with panic attacks since 1992 doesn't help the psyche. I know what a deep depression is like and I don't have that. I generally feel bad for maybe a few hours or a day when the anxiety gets me down, but it's more anxious thoughts thinking I won't ever get better and it's a waste of my life so stuff it I wish I wasn't here line of thinking. It doesn't persist though as with severe depression. I believe Fish Oil/Omega Oils have been tested in anxiety disorders as well as depression.
Posted by tecknohed on August 2, 2005, at 23:01:40
In reply to Re: Does St. John's Wort work?, posted by nolvas on August 1, 2005, at 18:29:34
Hi nolvas.
Thought you'd like to know there does now seem to be a vegetarian/vegan Omega 3 fish-oil- alternative containing DHA. It's called O-Mega-Zen-3 and is extracted from golden marine algae.Regards Kev.
Posted by blueberry on August 3, 2005, at 5:25:24
In reply to Does St. John's Wort work?, posted by RWF on August 1, 2005, at 8:08:27
I've tried sjw multiple times, in combination with my low dose prozac and zyprexa, and each time was great...except that it poops out or I develop tolerance. At first it does create some uneasiness or anxiety, but that goes away on its own in about a week. The good effects I feel from it can be described as a warm energized motivated feeling combined with a relaxed comfortable in a crowd kind of feeling. It's awesome. I just can't figure out the poop out thing.
I used the Kira brand, because it is the LI160 formula used in most of the scientific studies and is standardized for both hyperforin and hypericin. I've tried doses up to 1200mg a days, but actually just 300mg a day was the same. If I try it again I will cut a pill in half and do just 150mg a day.
It is notorious for interfering with the metabolism of other meds. Just based on what I feel, I think it increases zyprexa levels and decreases prozac levels.
If not for the poop out thing, or the tolerance thing, I would say it's the best AD on the planet. I don't know if it poops out on everyone or if it's just me. For me it begins working usually by day 2, but then is pooping out by week 2. And if I continue past that point, it actually makes me depressed. Not sure if that is a sjw thing or a med metabolism thing.
Posted by nolvas on August 3, 2005, at 9:16:05
In reply to vegetarian Omega 3 available » nolvas, posted by tecknohed on August 2, 2005, at 23:01:40
Thanks for that information, I will look in to it :)
Posted by nolvas on August 3, 2005, at 9:27:54
In reply to Re: Does St. John's Wort work?, posted by blueberry on August 3, 2005, at 5:25:24
There a lot of information here about SJW. You may already know the site, it has some good discussion forums.
The poop out thing you mention is your body's tolerance to SJW it seems. Body builders have long known about tolerance to different substances like Creatine for instance, so what they do is cycle the dosage, so they start with a large dosage then carry on for a few weeks on a maintenance dosage then they stop for a couple weeks. However this obviously isn't much help when using SJW.
What I suggest is to find out if tolerance to SJW is well known and then find out if it's possible to cycle it and for the time you don't take it find a substitute like L-Trytophan or SAM-E. I'm not recommending to start doing this until you can find some information about it. It's just an idea.
Another example is tolerance to Benzo's , some physicians recommend to taper off slowly and cross taper with another GABA enhancing drug like Gabapentin.
The problem with tolerance, cycling and tapering off is that there's not enough studies. So it's best to try and get some information I think the specific SJW site may be of some help. See how you go and good luck.
Posted by Declan on August 4, 2005, at 0:30:28
In reply to Does St. John's Wort work?, posted by RWF on August 1, 2005, at 8:08:27
It wasn't much use to me. I got the sun sensitivity thing, and it didn't take much sun at all and here the sun can be hard to avoid. Perhaps I found it a bit numbing, say compared to SAMe.
It would be good to get hyperforin without hypericin. Linkadge may have mentioned something about that.Declan
Posted by linkadge on August 13, 2005, at 21:21:55
In reply to Re: Does St. John's Wort work?, posted by blueberry on August 3, 2005, at 5:25:24
I agree with you. SJW was the most effective AD I had ever taken. When it worked it was better than anything else (even parnate)
Linkadge
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