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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by joebob on April 4, 2005, at 22:46:36
i am posting this for the benefit of other babblers........
any comments are appreciated........
for further info on protocols go to:Epinephrine is high. Norepinephrine is normal. Dopamine is normal. Serotonin is low. GABA is high. PEA is elevated.
Histamine is high
.Phase 1: Weeks 1 & 2
Serene Plus (1-2 capsules) twice a day (30 minutes prior to morning meal and evening meals)
EndoPlus (2 sprays) 3-5 times per day
Phase 2: Week 3 and on
GabaMax (2-3 capsules) 30 minutes prior to morning meal
Serene Plus (1-2 capsules) in the evening
Posted by SLS on April 5, 2005, at 7:46:13
In reply to my neurotransmitter levels by urine test, comments, posted by joebob on April 4, 2005, at 22:46:36
Were the measurements of any of these actually a measure of metabolites? For example, was the measurement of NE activity determined by the concentration of MHPG?
Thanks.
- Scott> i am posting this for the benefit of other babblers........
> any comments are appreciated........
> for further info on protocols go to:
>
> http://www.neurorelief.com/
>
> Epinephrine is high. Norepinephrine is normal. Dopamine is normal. Serotonin is low. GABA is high. PEA is elevated.
> Histamine is high
> .Phase 1: Weeks 1 & 2
> Serene Plus (1-2 capsules) twice a day (30 minutes prior to morning meal and evening meals)
> EndoPlus (2 sprays) 3-5 times per day
> Phase 2: Week 3 and on
> GabaMax (2-3 capsules) 30 minutes prior to morning meal
> Serene Plus (1-2 capsules) in the evening
>
>
>
Posted by joebob on April 5, 2005, at 12:03:25
In reply to Re: my neurotransmitter levels by urine test, comments, posted by SLS on April 5, 2005, at 7:46:13
out how they do the testing....it is becoming more popular with docs i know,but i would like to know if i can rely on the results and the supplments they reccomend......
my stress levels are way to high at the moment, and i need some releif, and need to functionone of the people who is using this system and referring others to use it finds that he need 2 to 4 grams of theanine to overcome his stress......that's a lot!!!! but if it works it would be worth it.....in the long run it would be better than valium
Posted by SLS on April 6, 2005, at 6:50:12
In reply to i don't know, maybe you could call them and find » SLS, posted by joebob on April 5, 2005, at 12:03:25
Thanks for replying.
> out how they do the testing....it is becoming more popular with docs i know,but i would like to know if i can rely on the results and the supplments they reccomend......
The idea is intriguing.
> my stress levels are way to high at the moment, and i need some releif, and need to function
I hope the theonine does the trick for you. Are you taking B vitamins? Maybe you can find something to reduce the impact that the stress has on the cortisol system. I would like to know that for myself, as my cortisol levels are too high and my adrenal glands aren't regulated properly (they don't shut off when dexamethasone is introduced).
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2005, at 10:12:15
In reply to my neurotransmitter levels by urine test, comments, posted by joebob on April 4, 2005, at 22:46:36
> i am posting this for the benefit of other babblers........
> any comments are appreciated........
> for further info on protocols go to:
>
> http://www.neurorelief.com/
>
> Epinephrine is high. Norepinephrine is normal. Dopamine is normal. Serotonin is low. GABA is high. PEA is elevated.
> Histamine is highIt really really matters where these urinary metabolites came from. For example, 90% or more of the serotonin in your body is not in your brain. It's in your blood cells, some artery cells, but mostly in your gut. It regulates peristalsis, the rhythmic movement of food from stomach to anus. The metabolites are not tagged to say "brain serotonin metabolite" or "gut serotonin metabolite". They are net systemic excretions.
Histamine is high.....it's pollen season. And so on.
It's not possible to learn much from urine. Mainline doctors don't do urinalysis for these metabolites because it is not specific enough. They're right, this time, IMHO.
Lar
Posted by joebob on April 10, 2005, at 11:36:12
In reply to Re: my neurotransmitter levels by urine test, comments » joebob, posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2005, at 10:12:15
test result w/ supp suggestions..
i thought on an earlier post, i think about neuroreleif, you were of the opinion that the science looked good to you..?
i do have a psychologist/naturopath who is using this system with very good results, and another friend who swears by it and is reffering others.....both have spoken at length with dr.kellerman and taken his seminar and find him sincere, knowledgeable, and credable..your opinion is valuable to me, as i don't want to waste peoples' time, money, or good will on something that is bogus....
i will be trying the system myself, as will the person whose results follow, and will keep you posted....in my own case i can say that i have the symptoms of high histamine as given by pfeiffer and others, as does my son.....it does not appear to be seasonal, and there is no history of 'allergies'
another set of results:
Epinephrine-Urine (µg/gCr) 1.5-21 8-12 8-13 3.2 ( 9:25 AM)
Norepinephrine-Urine
(µg/gCr)
15.5-106 30-55 35-70 25.6 ( 9:25 AM)
Norepi/Epi (Ratio) 3.0-6.0 N/A 8.1 ( 9:25 AM)
Dopamine-Urine (µg/gCr) 57-427 125-175 200-500 151.6 ( 9:25 AM)
Serotonin-Urine (µg/gCr) 41-275 175-225 250-1200 55.9 ( 9:25 AM)
GABA-Urine (umol/gCr) 1.5-35 2.0-4.0 10-15 11.5 ( 9:25 AM)
Glycine - Urine (umol/gCr) 200-6500 896.0 ( 9:25 AM)
Taurine - Urine (umol/gCr) 78-2000 289.8 ( 9:25 AM)
Laboratory test was performed by Pharmasan Labs, CLIA # 52D0914898; NY Lab PFI # 7426; EIN 39-1841640; Medicare Provider # 89065.Glutamate - Urine
(umol/gCr)
5.0-65 10-25 N/A 34.3 ( 9:25 AM)
PEA-Urine (nmol/gCr) 110-650 175-350 N/A 285.4 ( 9:25 AM)
Glutamine - Urine
(umol/gCr)
130-650 150-400 720.0 ( 9:25 AM)
Histamine-Urine (ug/gCr) 5 - 20 10-22 21.2 ( 9:25 AM)
Creatinine-Urine (mg/dL) N/A N/A N/A 115.4 ( 9:25 AM)
Laboratory test was performed by Pharmasan Labs, CLIA # 52D0914898; NY Lab PFI # 7426; EIN 39-1841640; Medicare Provider # 89065.Comments
Test results and recommendations made by NeuroScience for treatment are only guidelines and the final treatment
protocol and diagnosis should be interpreted by the healthcare provider. This information is intended for health care
providers only. For more information, please visit our website at www.neuroscienceinc.com.Epinephrine is low. Norepinephrine is suboptimal. Dopamine is normal. Serotonin is very low. GABA is high. PEA is normal. Histamine is normal
.Phase 1: Weeks 1&2 (or more if needed)
TravaCor (2 capsules) twice a day (30 minutes prior to morning and evening meals)
EndoPlus (2 sprays) 3-5 times daily
Phase 2: Week 3 and on
ExcitaCor (1 capsule) once a day (30 minutes prior to morning meal)
TravaCor (2 capsules) twice a day (30 minutes prior to morning and evening meals)
Phase 3:
ExcitaCor (1 capsule) once a day (30 minutes prior to morning meal)
TravaCor (1 capsule) twice a day (30 minutes prior to morning and evening meals)
Retest in 4-6 weeks after beginning therapy or sooner if needed
Phase 2 generally continues until neurotransmitter levels have been optimized and symptom resolution is achieved, and usually takes a minimum of 3 months. This is followed by a transition into phase 3 of treatment.
Phase 3 is important for maintaining adequate neurotransmitter levels. Without continued supplemental support,
transmitter levels will revert to baseline values. As a result, clinical symptoms may reappear.
All supplements recommended at mealtimes should be taken 1/2 hour prior to eating.
TravaCor is a combination of ingredients designed to raise serotonin and support GABA. It also contains theanine to reduce neurotransmitter excretion.
ExcitaCor contains Mucuna for catecholamine support, as well as histidine, a precursor to histamine. Histamine
affects enzymes that influence neurotransmission. Also included is Rhodiola, a nervous system stimulator.
EndoPlus (theanine & 5-HTP) is a liposomal formula that reduces excitatory neurotransmitter activity and supports serotonin. Theanine is used symptomatically as an anti-anxiety and anti-hyperactivity amino acid.Note: These comments are not intended to diagnose, treat, or cure a disease. Final therapeutic decisions are the responsibility of the clinician.
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2005, at 11:52:50
In reply to tnks, glad ur back..for comparison here is another, posted by joebob on April 10, 2005, at 11:36:12
> test result w/ supp suggestions..
> i thought on an earlier post, i think about neuroreleif, you were of the opinion that the science looked good to you..?I just googled on it, and the only post I could find gave an identical opinion to this one, re: urinalysis.
> i do have a psychologist/naturopath who is using this system with very good results, and another friend who swears by it and is reffering others.....both have spoken at length with dr.kellerman and taken his seminar and find him sincere, knowledgeable, and credable..
That may be absolutely true. He is selling you both a rationale, and supplements. Whether the supplements work or not, though, has not a whit to do with the rationale.
> your opinion is valuable to me, as i don't want to waste peoples' time, money, or good will on something that is bogus....
I am negative about the test method, not the supplements.
Lar
Posted by joebob on April 10, 2005, at 12:01:41
In reply to Re: tnks, glad ur back..for comparison here is another » joebob, posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2005, at 11:52:50
they were just over my head and i did notice that the rationale for urine testing was not very well documented
of course, i know he is selling supps, and that i can probably re-create the formulas myself at a big savings...one of the folks i mentioned is doing exactly that, but with the adddition of 1gm 4:1 epa, and 1500mg alpha lipoic acid, which is the dose he finds he needs to alleviate his symptoms, which are very long standing
glad to see you up and posting.....and fast, too
thanks bunches
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2005, at 13:52:37
In reply to got it..i browsed the lollowing references but » Larry Hoover, posted by joebob on April 10, 2005, at 12:01:41
> they were just over my head and i did notice that the rationale for urine testing was not very well documented
Rationale is just what scientist call "hand-waving", when we're chatting in the back rooms. You know, a kid in the class, hand proudly in the air, saying "I know! I know!". Well, really we don't know.
> of course, i know he is selling supps, and that i can probably re-create the formulas myself at a big savings...
There you go. That's exactly what I mean. Even if his rationale is right (and who knows if it is or not), it's the supps that do the work.
> one of the folks i mentioned is doing exactly that, but with the adddition of 1gm 4:1 epa, and 1500mg alpha lipoic acid, which is the dose he finds he needs to alleviate his symptoms, which are very long standing
Another reason not to expect some other person's guess at how to mix up the potion.....everybody's "recipe for health" is bound to be different.
> glad to see you up and posting.....and fast, too
You gotta catch me while I'm up to it, and around to it.
> thanks bunchesWelcome.
Lar
Posted by joebob on April 11, 2005, at 12:02:17
In reply to Re: got it..i browsed the lollowing references but » joebob, posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2005, at 13:52:37
had previously determined after much research..
whether the urine testis accurate or not, i am sure that it's a problemthis is the stuff i want to try to lower it and gains some weight
CYPROHEPTADINE HYDROCHLORIDE TABLETS, USP
Cyproheptadine HCl, is an antihistaminic and antiserotonergic agent.
Cyproheptadine hydrochloride is a white to slightly yellowish crystalline
solid, with a molecular weight of 350.89, which is soluble in water, freely
soluble in methanol, sparingly soluble in ethanol, soluble in chloroform,
and practically insoluble in ether. It is the sesquihydrate of 4-(5 H-dibenzo
[a,d]cyclohepten-5-ylidene)- 1 -methylpiperidine hydrochloride. The
molecular formula of the anhydrous salt is C21H21N•HCl and its molecular
weight is 350.89.
Cyproheptadine hydrochloride is available for oral administration in 4 mg
tablets.
Inactive ingredients include: lactose monohydrate, magnesium
stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, and sodium starch glycolate.
any other qucik and powerful approaches would be appreciated
thanks mucho
joebob
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 11, 2005, at 16:05:01
In reply to how to lower the high histamine, which as i said i » Larry Hoover, posted by joebob on April 11, 2005, at 12:02:17
> had previously determined after much research..
> whether the urine testis accurate or not, i am sure that it's a problem
>
> this is the stuff i want to try to lower it and gains some weight
>
> CYPROHEPTADINE HYDROCHLORIDE TABLETS, USP
> Cyproheptadine HCl, is an antihistaminic and antiserotonergic agent.
> Cyproheptadine hydrochloride is a white to slightly yellowish crystalline
> solid, with a molecular weight of 350.89, which is soluble in water, freely
> soluble in methanol, sparingly soluble in ethanol, soluble in chloroform,
> and practically insoluble in ether. It is the sesquihydrate of 4-(5 H-dibenzo
> [a,d]cyclohepten-5-ylidene)- 1 -methylpiperidine hydrochloride. The
> molecular formula of the anhydrous salt is C21H21N•HCl and its molecular
> weight is 350.89.
> Cyproheptadine hydrochloride is available for oral administration in 4 mg
> tablets.
> Inactive ingredients include: lactose monohydrate, magnesium
> stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, and sodium starch glycolate.
>
>
> any other qucik and powerful approaches would be appreciated
>
>
> thanks mucho
> joebobYou know who is the cypro expert? Racer. See if you can find Racer. Just put that in a babblemail, and see if she's got it turned on.
Lar
Posted by rfied on May 3, 2005, at 11:42:26
In reply to Re: tnks, glad ur back..for comparison here is another » joebob, posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2005, at 11:52:50
> > test result w/ supp suggestions..
> > i thought on an earlier post, i think about neuroreleif, you were of the opinion that the science looked good to you..?
>
> I just googled on it, and the only post I could find gave an identical opinion to this one, re: urinalysis.
>
> > i do have a psychologist/naturopath who is using this system with very good results, and another friend who swears by it and is reffering others.....both have spoken at length with dr.kellerman and taken his seminar and find him sincere, knowledgeable, and credable..
>
> That may be absolutely true. He is selling you both a rationale, and supplements. Whether the supplements work or not, though, has not a whit to do with the rationale.
>
> > your opinion is valuable to me, as i don't want to waste peoples' time, money, or good will on something that is bogus....
>
> I am negative about the test method, not the supplements.
>
> Lar
Larry, are u familiar with dr Eric bravermans book "The Edge effect" and his BEAM electric brain imaging to show neurotrans deficiencies??
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 5, 2005, at 18:13:40
In reply to Re: Larry: back..for comparison here is another » Larry Hoover, posted by rfied on May 3, 2005, at 11:42:26
> are u familiar with dr Eric bravermans book "The Edge effect" and his BEAM electric brain imaging to show neurotrans deficiencies??
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book, movie, or music without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 12:36:16
In reply to Re: Larry: back..for comparison here is another » Larry Hoover, posted by rfied on May 3, 2005, at 11:42:26
> Larry, are u familiar with dr Eric bravermans book "The Edge effect" and his BEAM electric brain imaging to show neurotrans deficiencies??
I haven't studied his work in any depth. I've briefly looked it over. He seems to be fairly reserved about the claims he makes for his capacity to assess and treat patients who use his BEAM protocols. That's reassuring, but he has never published in the medical journals. I have not seen any detailed descriptions of his work.
I'm reserving judgment, for the time being.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on May 21, 2005, at 17:12:12
In reply to Re: Larry: back..for comparison here is another » Larry Hoover, posted by rfied on May 3, 2005, at 11:42:26
> > > test result w/ supp suggestions..
> > > i thought on an earlier post, i think about neuroreleif, you were of the opinion that the science looked good to you..?
> >
> > I just googled on it, and the only post I could find gave an identical opinion to this one, re: urinalysis.
> >
> > > i do have a psychologist/naturopath who is using this system with very good results, and another friend who swears by it and is reffering others.....both have spoken at length with dr.kellerman and taken his seminar and find him sincere, knowledgeable, and credable..
> >
> > That may be absolutely true. He is selling you both a rationale, and supplements. Whether the supplements work or not, though, has not a whit to do with the rationale.
> >
> > > your opinion is valuable to me, as i don't want to waste peoples' time, money, or good will on something that is bogus....
> >
> > I am negative about the test method, not the supplements.
> >
> > Lar
>
>
> Larry, are u familiar with dr Eric bravermans book "The Edge effect" and his BEAM electric brain imaging to show neurotrans deficiencies??
>
"franco neuro" is a poster who has been seeing Dr. Braverman. He hasn't been terribly impressed thus far. Braverman seems to be much more interested in making money and becoming famous. "franco" had spent lots of money so far and had very little time with Dr. B. If you do a search on "franco" + "Braverman" you ought to get some good information (pros and cons).In terms of the BEAM imaging, there is a more advanced use of brain scans currently in use. It's called rEEG and there has been some good information on that in earlier posts on the main board as well. At one point one of the Drs. who uses rEEG saw the thread and posted some answers for us. You might also want to do a search on rEEG as well.
K
This is the end of the thread.
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