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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on November 8, 2004, at 16:06:33
Linkadge
Posted by jujube on November 8, 2004, at 17:36:19
In reply to pantothenic acid - does it help anxiety ??, posted by linkadge on November 8, 2004, at 16:06:33
> Linkadge
I am relatively new to the natural alternatives, but I would say that pantothenic acid would help anxiety. I have read that panthothenic acid is used in nerve transmissions and in the production of hormones that control our reactions to emotional and physical stress and the flight or flight response, which is why this vitamin has been considered an anti-stress vitamin.
In a vitamin/mineral book I have which recommends Optimum Daily Intake for supplements, the suggested dosage is 100 - 500 mg for anxiety, depression (which the author indicates is based on a thorough scientific review of pa and on her own clincal experience). There is, apparently, no known toxicity.
It is my understanding that all of the B vitamins will have a positive effect on anxiety and mild depression.
Tamara
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 9, 2004, at 15:49:18
In reply to pantothenic acid - does it help anxiety ??, posted by linkadge on November 8, 2004, at 16:06:33
not directly....probably stimulating, if you're at all deficient.
Posted by LOOPS on November 12, 2004, at 14:17:18
In reply to Re: pantothenic acid - does it help anxiety ?? » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on November 9, 2004, at 15:49:18
I find pantothenic acid helpful in conjunction with liquid lecithin - but only a small dose (of the B5 that is). The B5 helps the lecithin get into the brain (I heard). Anything more than ~200mg and I feel overstimulated/wired and start feeling crap with insomnia. I prefer to take it as part of a B complex - then I don't have any problems.
I found this does not happen with all B vitamins. I can take 100mg B1 on its own very happily (excellent for anxiety/irritability), and also B6 in its co-enzyme form I have found fantastic for calming.
By the way, I found I couldn't handle B complex whilst taking St Johns Wort - it made me anxious. However now I am not taking sjw, I can happily take a whole B50 pill and it has a positive effect. I'm assuming this to be the effect on noradrenaline from the sjw, which is further enhanced by the B vitamins. And for me, too much noradrenaline is bad news. Which is a bummer as you usually have to go through noradrenaline to get to the dopamine thang, which I generally need more of (before I turn into an unmotivated, mute, socially reclusive lump).
Probably too much info there - sorry!
Loops
Posted by KaraS on November 12, 2004, at 15:14:30
In reply to Re: pantothenic acid - does it help anxiety ??, posted by LOOPS on November 12, 2004, at 14:17:18
> I find pantothenic acid helpful in conjunction with liquid lecithin - but only a small dose (of the B5 that is). The B5 helps the lecithin get into the brain (I heard). Anything more than ~200mg and I feel overstimulated/wired and start feeling crap with insomnia. I prefer to take it as part of a B complex - then I don't have any problems.
>
> I found this does not happen with all B vitamins. I can take 100mg B1 on its own very happily (excellent for anxiety/irritability), and also B6 in its co-enzyme form I have found fantastic for calming.
>
> By the way, I found I couldn't handle B complex whilst taking St Johns Wort - it made me anxious. However now I am not taking sjw, I can happily take a whole B50 pill and it has a positive effect. I'm assuming this to be the effect on noradrenaline from the sjw, which is further enhanced by the B vitamins. And for me, too much noradrenaline is bad news. Which is a bummer as you usually have to go through noradrenaline to get to the dopamine thang, which I generally need more of (before I turn into an unmotivated, mute, socially reclusive lump).
>
> Probably too much info there - sorry!
>
> Loops
I have the same problem. I desperately need NE for energy and motivation (I think it's good for that on it's own before metabolizing to dopamine) but I react so strongly to it. I get tachycardia from such little amounts. I wish there were same way around this issue - other than living on beta blockers.K
Posted by LOOPS on November 12, 2004, at 15:35:26
In reply to Re: pantothenic acid - does it help anxiety ?? » LOOPS, posted by KaraS on November 12, 2004, at 15:14:30
Hi -
supposedly fish oil can have some impact on dopamine function - I have found it useful. Also vinpocetine increases neurotransmitter turnover and can increase norep/dop/ser because of this (??). Other than that, some of the nootropics like piracetam and hydergine can up dopamine without going through norepinephrine (I think - in my experience this has been so). Also the positive experiences of supplementing 5htp with these nootropics of various people might indicate (??) that some balance is being restored once dopamine gets too high. However piracetam does seem to send some people to sleep (dose - too high?), so it might have other effects (apart from the obvious).
Ginkgo's 'speedy' reputation might mean it effects dopamine/norep - I definitely take it when I need more motivation - too much and I feel anxious though, but not in that tyrosine-type way - more a resltessness.
Vinpo sometimes makes me more talktative, sometimes makes me sleepy, but never made me anxious. One of the few helpful brain supplements that hasn't! Hydergine is the same - I don't get any anxiety with this, but then I only take a very small amount (0.5ml) at a time. Once I took 1.5ml the first time I actually tried it - motivated and creative but this was too strong and I kind of went a bit nuts for a few hours.
My guess is the fish oil just makes your brain work better and gets the blood flowing - I certainly have seen a big impact on my general mental well-being since starting this.
I am wondering about fish oil's impact on cortisol. Anyone know? Does it reduce it?
Loops
Posted by KaraS on November 12, 2004, at 16:56:38
In reply to dopamine, posted by LOOPS on November 12, 2004, at 15:35:26
> Hi -
>
> supposedly fish oil can have some impact on dopamine function - I have found it useful. Also vinpocetine increases neurotransmitter turnover and can increase norep/dop/ser because of this (??). Other than that, some of the nootropics like piracetam and hydergine can up dopamine without going through norepinephrine (I think - in my experience this has been so). Also the positive experiences of supplementing 5htp with these nootropics of various people might indicate (??) that some balance is being restored once dopamine gets too high. However piracetam does seem to send some people to sleep (dose - too high?), so it might have other effects (apart from the obvious).
>
> Ginkgo's 'speedy' reputation might mean it effects dopamine/norep - I definitely take it when I need more motivation - too much and I feel anxious though, but not in that tyrosine-type way - more a resltessness.
>
> Vinpo sometimes makes me more talktative, sometimes makes me sleepy, but never made me anxious. One of the few helpful brain supplements that hasn't! Hydergine is the same - I don't get any anxiety with this, but then I only take a very small amount (0.5ml) at a time. Once I took 1.5ml the first time I actually tried it - motivated and creative but this was too strong and I kind of went a bit nuts for a few hours.
>
> My guess is the fish oil just makes your brain work better and gets the blood flowing - I certainly have seen a big impact on my general mental well-being since starting this.
>
> I am wondering about fish oil's impact on cortisol. Anyone know? Does it reduce it?
>
> Loops
I intend to try all of those things one of these days. Most supplements have had very limited effects on me so far though, including fish oil. I still take it anyway. I might try increasing the dosage though. I don't know about it's effect on cortisol but I'm sure others here would know.
Posted by tealady on November 13, 2004, at 5:42:14
In reply to Re: pantothenic acid - does it help anxiety ?? » LOOPS, posted by KaraS on November 12, 2004, at 15:14:30
I get tachycardia from such little amounts. I wish there were same way around this issue - other than living on beta blockers.
I guess you do have good ferritin levels(50 to 100)?..that sometimes gets around this problem
I think
Posted by LOOPS on November 13, 2004, at 12:59:01
In reply to Re: dopamine » LOOPS, posted by KaraS on November 12, 2004, at 16:56:38
Hi -
I take 6 high dose caps a day, which gives me about 3.5g EPA and a bit less DHA. I also take EPO and Spirulina which also contains GLA.
I heard 3g EPA is a good starting dose. I also heard that too much/very high dose fish oil can do something funny to your immune system and glucose levels, or something like that.
Any less than 3g EPA and I don't notice enough of an effect (in lots of ways).
Loops
Posted by KaraS on November 13, 2004, at 15:50:23
In reply to fish oil, posted by LOOPS on November 13, 2004, at 12:59:01
> Hi -
>
> I take 6 high dose caps a day, which gives me about 3.5g EPA and a bit less DHA. I also take EPO and Spirulina which also contains GLA.
>
> I heard 3g EPA is a good starting dose. I also heard that too much/very high dose fish oil can do something funny to your immune system and glucose levels, or something like that.
>
> Any less than 3g EPA and I don't notice enough of an effect (in lots of ways).
>
> Loops
Thanks,
I'm going to try to increase my dosage. I will do it gradually because I've had horrible problems with cycstic acne in the past from fish oil and flax seed oil. (I don't normally have that problem.) I posted something about that here and got several responses from others who were experiencing that same odd response. This brand I'm taking now (RxOmega-3 Factors Pharmaceutical Grade EPA 400 mg/DHA 200 mg by Natural Factors) has not been causing that problem but I'm only taking 1 capsule a day.K
Posted by KaraS on November 13, 2004, at 15:59:28
In reply to Re: pantothenic acid - does it help anxiety ??, posted by tealady on November 13, 2004, at 5:42:14
> I get tachycardia from such little amounts. I wish there were same way around this issue - other than living on beta blockers.
>
>
> I guess you do have good ferritin levels(50 to 100)?..that sometimes gets around this problem
> I think
Hi,I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly. Are you saying that inadequate ferritin levels can be responsible for tachycardia from norepinephrine (and that if ferritin levels are raised one can handle increases in norepinephrine without the tachycardia response)?
Kara
Posted by tealady on November 13, 2004, at 16:11:57
In reply to Re: pantothenic acid - does it help anxiety ?? » tealady, posted by KaraS on November 13, 2004, at 15:59:28
possibly
many starting on thyroid hormones get similar symptoms which are sometimes(more often than not) relieved by getting their ferritin up above 50. As thyroid hormones also have effects on adrenals (noradrenaline etc)..its a longshot but just thought it might be worth mentioning.
Jan
Posted by sabre on November 13, 2004, at 16:13:53
In reply to Re: pantothenic acid - does it help anxiety ?? » tealady, posted by KaraS on November 13, 2004, at 15:59:28
Hi tealady
I am also curious about the norepinephrine -ferritin - tachycardia connection.Is it always norepinephrine that is responsible for these effects? Could this also be connected to the side effect of ectopic beats but normal heart rate? I found Moclobemide brought this on.
Yesterday I tried Tyrosine and DL phenylalanine and found I experienced a few short episodes of palpitations. Too much of a good thing?
sabre
Posted by KaraS on November 13, 2004, at 17:57:19
In reply to Re: pantothenic acid - does it help anxiety ?? » KaraS, posted by tealady on November 13, 2004, at 16:11:57
> possibly
>
> many starting on thyroid hormones get similar symptoms which are sometimes(more often than not) relieved by getting their ferritin up above 50. As thyroid hormones also have effects on adrenals (noradrenaline etc)..its a longshot but just thought it might be worth mentioning.
>
> Jan
Interesting....Wish I could get my ferritin levels tested but need to wait until I have health insurance. I will definitely put this on my list to test for!
Thanks so much, Jan
Kara
Posted by jujube on November 14, 2004, at 9:08:53
In reply to Re: dopamine » LOOPS, posted by KaraS on November 12, 2004, at 16:56:38
Kara,
I was doing some research on a supplement I am currently taking and came across a brief blurb about Acetyl L-Carnitine which said that L-Carnitine enhances the release of dopamine from dopaminergic neurons and improves the binding of dopamine to dopamine receptors. I haven't done any extensive research on it, but it may be worth exploring (if you haven't already done so).
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on November 14, 2004, at 13:38:39
In reply to Re: dopamine » KaraS, posted by jujube on November 14, 2004, at 9:08:53
> Kara,
>
> I was doing some research on a supplement I am currently taking and came across a brief blurb about Acetyl L-Carnitine which said that L-Carnitine enhances the release of dopamine from dopaminergic neurons and improves the binding of dopamine to dopamine receptors. I haven't done any extensive research on it, but it may be worth exploring (if you haven't already done so).
>
> Tamara
Thanks. I took ACL a while back but I didn't notice any positive effects from it. Perhaps I didn't take a high enough dosage though. Also, I read that it negatively impacts the thyroid or thyroxin (and I'm hypothyroid). But then I noticed that the site I read this on doesn't seem to have those articles anymore. So, maybe it doesn't have this negative effect after all. I'll definitely have to check this out further.
It would be wonderful if such an inexpensive, easy to obtain natural supplement without horrible side effects were able to help me.Thanks so much!
K
Posted by jujube on November 14, 2004, at 14:17:16
In reply to Re: dopamine » jujube, posted by KaraS on November 14, 2004, at 13:38:39
> > Kara,
> >
> > I was doing some research on a supplement I am currently taking and came across a brief blurb about Acetyl L-Carnitine which said that L-Carnitine enhances the release of dopamine from dopaminergic neurons and improves the binding of dopamine to dopamine receptors. I haven't done any extensive research on it, but it may be worth exploring (if you haven't already done so).
> >
> > Tamara
>
>
> Thanks. I took ACL a while back but I didn't notice any positive effects from it. Perhaps I didn't take a high enough dosage though. Also, I read that it negatively impacts the thyroid or thyroxin (and I'm hypothyroid). But then I noticed that the site I read this on doesn't seem to have those articles anymore. So, maybe it doesn't have this negative effect after all. I'll definitely have to check this out further.
> It would be wonderful if such an inexpensive, easy to obtain natural supplement without horrible side effects were able to help me.
>
> Thanks so much!
>
> K
Kara,That's a drag. I can't seem find the little piece I read again, but I think it said that it worked synergetically with Ginkgo, phosphatidylserine and B vitamins. Then again . . .
I am anxious to see the responses to your thread about DMAE.
Take care.
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on November 14, 2004, at 17:17:35
In reply to Re: dopamine » KaraS, posted by jujube on November 14, 2004, at 14:17:16
> > > Kara,
> > >
> > > I was doing some research on a supplement I am currently taking and came across a brief blurb about Acetyl L-Carnitine which said that L-Carnitine enhances the release of dopamine from dopaminergic neurons and improves the binding of dopamine to dopamine receptors. I haven't done any extensive research on it, but it may be worth exploring (if you haven't already done so).
> > >
> > > Tamara
> >
> >
> > Thanks. I took ACL a while back but I didn't notice any positive effects from it. Perhaps I didn't take a high enough dosage though. Also, I read that it negatively impacts the thyroid or thyroxin (and I'm hypothyroid). But then I noticed that the site I read this on doesn't seem to have those articles anymore. So, maybe it doesn't have this negative effect after all. I'll definitely have to check this out further.
> > It would be wonderful if such an inexpensive, easy to obtain natural supplement without horrible side effects were able to help me.
> >
> > Thanks so much!
> >
> > K
>
>
> Kara,
>
> That's a drag. I can't seem find the little piece I read again, but I think it said that it worked synergetically with Ginkgo, phosphatidylserine and B vitamins. Then again . . .
>
> I am anxious to see the responses to your thread about DMAE.
>
> Take care.
>
> TamaraThanks for trying to find the article anyway.
If I find anything like that about ALC I'll post the link here for you.I wonder if I'll get any responses to the DMAE question...
K
Posted by tealady on November 15, 2004, at 19:52:52
In reply to Re: pantothenic acid - does it help anxiety ?? » KaraS, posted by tealady on November 13, 2004, at 16:11:57
> possibly
>
> many starting on thyroid hormones get similar symptoms which are sometimes(more often than not) relieved by getting their ferritin up above 50. As thyroid hormones also have effects on adrenals (noradrenaline etc)..its a longshot but just thought it might be worth mentioning.
>
> Jan
here ya go ..found something..didn't think I would
This may be how the iron works...just knew it did(but only to bring ferritin over 50..around 70 is perhaps idea, personally I wouldn't want be to be much over 80.(mine was 15, got it up to 55 once with injections<g>)Iron, thermoregulation, and metabolic rate.
Rosenzweig PH, Volpe SL
University of Massachusetts, Department of Nutrition, Chenoweth Lab, Amherst 01003-1420, USA.Iron plays an important role, not only in oxygen delivery to the tissues, but also as a cofactor with several enzymes involved in energy metabolism and thermoregulation. As a result, much research has been dedicated to understanding the ramifications of iron depletion and iron deficiency anemia on the physiological functions of these enzymes. There is evidence to suggest that iron depletion and iron deficiency anemia cause physiological changes in the body not only during exercise, but also under resting conditions. Both rat and human studies have produced results revealing elevated levels of norepinephrine in the blood and urine of iron-deficient anemic subjects. These studies also provide evidence to suggest that elevation in metabolic rate may ultimately lead to slower growth rates and lower body weights in iron-deficient anemic animals and humans. The focus of this review is on the effects of iron deficiency on metabolic rate and thermoregulation. Prior to this discussion, a brief background on iron is presented.
PMID: 10198751, UI: 99214964
So maybe this is why when you take tyrosine or thyroid hormones or anything that may raise noradrenaline you may have to raise ferritin as well(but only if under 50)..
Posted by tealady on November 16, 2004, at 22:00:11
In reply to ferritin iron levels again » tealady, posted by tealady on November 15, 2004, at 19:52:52
Posted by KaraS on November 18, 2004, at 23:21:29
In reply to ferritin iron levels again » tealady, posted by tealady on November 15, 2004, at 19:52:52
Posted by KayeBaby on December 15, 2004, at 11:06:43
In reply to Re: dopamine » KaraS, posted by jujube on November 14, 2004, at 14:17:16
When I take ALC I experience a 'down' period for about 4 hours the a brightening reminescent of GHB but not as pleasant so it may effect dopamine release. The 'down' part is more draggy and the 'up' more irritable than GHB.
I tried this for energy and clarity so the flattening effect is not welcome.
I am intrigued by the pronounced effect of this supplement though.
kaye
Posted by zefdie on June 15, 2006, at 3:26:42
In reply to dopamine, posted by LOOPS on November 12, 2004, at 15:35:26
> Hi -
>
> supposedly fish oil can have some impact on dopamine function - I have found it useful. Also vinpocetine increases neurotransmitter turnover and can increase norep/dop/ser because of this (??). Other than that, some of the nootropics like piracetam and hydergine can up dopamine without going through norepinephrine (I think - in my experience this has been so). Also the positive experiences of supplementing 5htp with these nootropics of various people might indicate (??) that some balance is being restored once dopamine gets too high. However piracetam does seem to send some people to sleep (dose - too high?), so it might have other effects (apart from the obvious).
>
> Ginkgo's 'speedy' reputation might mean it effects dopamine/norep - I definitely take it when I need more motivation - too much and I feel anxious though, but not in that tyrosine-type way - more a resltessness.
>
> Vinpo sometimes makes me more talktative, sometimes makes me sleepy, but never made me anxious. One of the few helpful brain supplements that hasn't! Hydergine is the same - I don't get any anxiety with this, but then I only take a very small amount (0.5ml) at a time. Once I took 1.5ml the first time I actually tried it - motivated and creative but this was too strong and I kind of went a bit nuts for a few hours.
>
> My guess is the fish oil just makes your brain work better and gets the blood flowing - I certainly have seen a big impact on my general mental well-being since starting this.
>
> I am wondering about fish oil's impact on cortisol. Anyone know? Does it reduce it?
>
> Loops
Loops, do you have any information on the dopaminergic activity of hydergine? Links? Pubmed is giving me a headache and my doctor wants me to provide some information about the antidepressant effects of piracetam and hydergine.
Posted by LOOPS on June 15, 2006, at 12:29:06
In reply to Re: dopamine, posted by zefdie on June 15, 2006, at 3:26:42
Hi -
not offhand - but I think any of the smart drugs websites talk about it. However, I don't recall hydergine affecting my sleep - so it can't be that dopaminergenic (or however you call that!).I haven't touched the stuff in years now - maybe I would get some more composition done if I did!
Loops
Posted by kalloco on June 23, 2006, at 18:04:00
In reply to Re: dopamine, posted by zefdie on June 15, 2006, at 3:26:42
i read somewhere that dietary fats boost dopamine levels, perhaps quicker than most anything.
apparently those that prefer calorie dense foods containing fat and protein (salty as opposed to sweet) when under stress are seeking a dopamine reward ... as opposed to the serotonin comfort seekers who prefer sweet foods in such stressful times of needed comfortwho are you? dopamine seeker or sertonin seeker?
5-HTP ?Does anyone have any experience with macuna ... the herb (bean?) extract containing dopa?
I was wondering whether anyone knows of a combination of nutraceuticals that provide immediate bliss ... for at least a reasonable % of human subjects?
What would you combine with macuna to boost brain levels of dopamine? Would such be sufficient to provide a pleasant state of mind for the dopamine seeker types?
Apparently the blood A B O antigen type is another factor to consider. For instance, I've heard that O types sometimes do not respond well to St John's wort. I know a B type that simply loves the effect.
If anyone has any ideas, I invite you to post or write direct, if that is possible, I'm new to posting on this forum.
thank you
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