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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by jujube on October 27, 2004, at 16:00:44
I was wondering if either or both of you can help me. I have been doing some research on Chinese Licorice Root, and am thinking of adding it to my supplement regime, particularly to strengthen my adrenals and help with my borderline low blood pressure. Is this a safe and effective supplement? Can it be taken safely with an AD? Anything you can tell me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.
Tamara
Posted by tealady on October 27, 2004, at 22:45:44
In reply to ? for Tealady and Raybakes - Licorice Root, posted by jujube on October 27, 2004, at 16:00:44
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040928/msgs/397493.html
unless you know what you are doing I would only try it short term..like a month or so at the most.
Posted by jujube on October 28, 2004, at 8:16:17
In reply to Re: ? for Tealady and Raybakes - Licorice Root » jujube, posted by tealady on October 27, 2004, at 22:45:44
Thanks. Very interesting. I think I will hold off on adding the licorice root (the product I have on hand contains 350 mg of glycyrrhiza glabra). I do use a green food supplement which contains licorice root (125 mg). I was taking the greens once a day, and recently upped it to twice a day (which results in 250 mg of licorice root). Maybe the increase in the green food supplement is causing problems for me. Anyways, I appreciate your taking the time to response.
Tamara
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040928/msgs/397493.html
>
> unless you know what you are doing I would only try it short term..like a month or so at the most.
Posted by tealady on October 28, 2004, at 20:39:04
In reply to Re: ? for Tealady and Raybakes - Licorice Root » tealady, posted by jujube on October 28, 2004, at 8:16:17
One thing I guess is to watch your potassium intake..you may need to increase it...bananas are good..and switch to Lite salt maybe.
Going to not be around here for the next couple of weeks
Posted by jujube on October 28, 2004, at 20:49:12
In reply to Re: ? for Tealady and Raybakes - Licorice Root » jujube, posted by tealady on October 28, 2004, at 20:39:04
Thanks for the advice. I love bananas, and try to eat at least one a day. Take care.
Tamara
> One thing I guess is to watch your potassium intake..you may need to increase it...bananas are good..and switch to Lite salt maybe.
> Going to not be around here for the next couple of weeks
Posted by raybakes on October 29, 2004, at 4:32:32
In reply to ? for Tealady and Raybakes - Licorice Root, posted by jujube on October 27, 2004, at 16:00:44
> I was wondering if either or both of you can help me. I have been doing some research on Chinese Licorice Root, and am thinking of adding it to my supplement regime, particularly to strengthen my adrenals and help with my borderline low blood pressure. Is this a safe and effective supplement? Can it be taken safely with an AD? Anything you can tell me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.
>
> TamaraHi Tamara, i can tolerate small amounts if licorice, but know several people that can't go near it! The DGL form of it might be OK if you have difficulty with normal licorice. I used a licorice tincture, and only needed a cuple of drops a day. Not sure about it's interactions with ADs.
"Licorice root has an effect on the organism similar to that of a steroid. It slows the conversion of cortisol to cortisone, which increases and prolongs the action of this steroid hormone produced by the adrenal glands. This physiological activity can explain many of its undesirable effects as well as its medicinal benefits."
"The consequences of high doses or long-term use of licorice are severe. This herb can cause high blood pressure, low levels of potassium, fluid retention and swelling of the face and limbs, hormonal imbalance, and muscle destruction leading to pain and weakness."
sounds dangerous stuff!!
http://www.healthcentral.com/PeoplesPharmacy/PharmFullText.cfm?ID=20657&storytype=HerbalMon
Posted by tealady on October 29, 2004, at 5:02:16
In reply to Re: ? for Tealady and Raybakes - Licorice Root » jujube, posted by raybakes on October 29, 2004, at 4:32:32
Just gotta add..all that dangerous stuff (other than the big danger of low potassium itself) is from having too high levels of cortisol for too long..
and I think licorice also raises oestrogen as well as cortisol..good for most females, but usually doesn't go down that well in males <grin>
Jan cya
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 29, 2004, at 8:58:58
In reply to Re: ? for Tealady and Raybakes - Licorice Root » raybakes, posted by tealady on October 29, 2004, at 5:02:16
> Just gotta add..all that dangerous stuff (other than the big danger of low potassium itself) is from having too high levels of cortisol for too long..
> and I think licorice also raises oestrogen as well as cortisol..good for most females, but usually doesn't go down that well in males <grin>
> Jan cyaI'll just slip into this discussion here....
Licorice contains at least two active principles, glycyrrhizin and glycyrrhetinic acid. As mentioned by others, one direct effect is to slow the conversion of cortisol to cortisone. This has the effect of tricking the hypothalamus into thinking the output of the adrenal glands is greater than it actually is. The adrenal stimulation signal is reduced, and provides the adrenals with a "rest period". That is useful if prolonged stress has led to adrenal fatigue, for example.
Those same two active principles also bind to steroid uptake modulators, sometimes called peripheral benzodiazepine receptors, shutting them down. Cholesterol uptake is reduced, and testosterone synthesis decreases, in both men and women. This leads to a change in the masculinizing/feminizing hormone ratios. The feedback from this suppression of normal hormone balance can induce increases in stimulatory signals for e.g. testosterone synthesis. So, brief periods of testosterone suppression can actually lead to testosterone increase, if the suppression is time-limited.
Licorice root is for short-term use. I would never exceed one month of intake. Beyond that, the likelihood of inducing a major hormone disturbance syndrome known as pseudoaldosteronism is just too great.
There is a deglycyrrhizinated form, called DGL. It is used to soothe stomach disturbances, such as with a peptic ulcer, for example. I believe the risk of pseudoaldosteronism is eliminated, with this product.
Lar
Posted by jujube on October 29, 2004, at 9:14:01
In reply to Re: ? for Tealady and Raybakes - Licorice Root » jujube, posted by raybakes on October 29, 2004, at 4:32:32
Thanks for the information. I think I am going forego the licorice root for now. I do, however, get a certain amount of licorice root in the green food powder supplement I take every day. So far I have not experienced any adverse effects. I don't really want to give it up because I am not the best eater around, and the greens apparently provide the equivalent of 5 servings of organic vegetables a day. Who know, though, that could just be hype. You know, I am beginning to think that finding the right combo of vitamins, minerals, etc. for your body type is as much trial and error as trying to find the right medication. Nevertheless, I continue to research alternatives and try to find what will work best for me. I recently added 400 mg of chromium daily. It seems to be helping. I am not waking up in the morning feeling shaky and like I hand't eaten in two days now (at least it's not as a bad as it was). So, maybe the chromium is helping to balance my blood sugar.
Thanks again, and take care.
Tamara
> > I was wondering if either or both of you can help me. I have been doing some research on Chinese Licorice Root, and am thinking of adding it to my supplement regime, particularly to strengthen my adrenals and help with my borderline low blood pressure. Is this a safe and effective supplement? Can it be taken safely with an AD? Anything you can tell me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.
> >
> > Tamara
>
> Hi Tamara, i can tolerate small amounts if licorice, but know several people that can't go near it! The DGL form of it might be OK if you have difficulty with normal licorice. I used a licorice tincture, and only needed a cuple of drops a day. Not sure about it's interactions with ADs.
>
> "Licorice root has an effect on the organism similar to that of a steroid. It slows the conversion of cortisol to cortisone, which increases and prolongs the action of this steroid hormone produced by the adrenal glands. This physiological activity can explain many of its undesirable effects as well as its medicinal benefits."
>
> "The consequences of high doses or long-term use of licorice are severe. This herb can cause high blood pressure, low levels of potassium, fluid retention and swelling of the face and limbs, hormonal imbalance, and muscle destruction leading to pain and weakness."
>
> sounds dangerous stuff!!
>
>
> http://www.healthcentral.com/PeoplesPharmacy/PharmFullText.cfm?ID=20657&storytype=HerbalMon
>
>
>
>
Posted by jujube on October 29, 2004, at 9:22:01
In reply to Re: ? for Tealady and Raybakes - Licorice Root, posted by Larry Hoover on October 29, 2004, at 8:58:58
Larry,
The green food supplement, Nu Greens powder form, I take contains 125 mg of licorice root (4:1 extract, 15% glyycyrrhizin). I take it every day, and have for a number of months. Can this be potentially dangerous? Would it be advisable to take a break of a few days to a week and then start up again? Anything you can tell me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Tamara
> > Just gotta add..all that dangerous stuff (other than the big danger of low potassium itself) is from having too high levels of cortisol for too long..
> > and I think licorice also raises oestrogen as well as cortisol..good for most females, but usually doesn't go down that well in males <grin>
> > Jan cya
>
> I'll just slip into this discussion here....
>
> Licorice contains at least two active principles, glycyrrhizin and glycyrrhetinic acid. As mentioned by others, one direct effect is to slow the conversion of cortisol to cortisone. This has the effect of tricking the hypothalamus into thinking the output of the adrenal glands is greater than it actually is. The adrenal stimulation signal is reduced, and provides the adrenals with a "rest period". That is useful if prolonged stress has led to adrenal fatigue, for example.
>
> Those same two active principles also bind to steroid uptake modulators, sometimes called peripheral benzodiazepine receptors, shutting them down. Cholesterol uptake is reduced, and testosterone synthesis decreases, in both men and women. This leads to a change in the masculinizing/feminizing hormone ratios. The feedback from this suppression of normal hormone balance can induce increases in stimulatory signals for e.g. testosterone synthesis. So, brief periods of testosterone suppression can actually lead to testosterone increase, if the suppression is time-limited.
>
> Licorice root is for short-term use. I would never exceed one month of intake. Beyond that, the likelihood of inducing a major hormone disturbance syndrome known as pseudoaldosteronism is just too great.
>
> There is a deglycyrrhizinated form, called DGL. It is used to soothe stomach disturbances, such as with a peptic ulcer, for example. I believe the risk of pseudoaldosteronism is eliminated, with this product.
>
> Lar
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 29, 2004, at 11:11:54
In reply to Re: ? for Tealady and Raybakes - Licorice Root » Larry Hoover, posted by jujube on October 29, 2004, at 9:22:01
> Larry,
>
> The green food supplement, Nu Greens powder form, I take contains 125 mg of licorice root (4:1 extract, 15% glyycyrrhizin). I take it every day, and have for a number of months. Can this be potentially dangerous? Would it be advisable to take a break of a few days to a week and then start up again? Anything you can tell me would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> TamaraYes, prolonged inhibition of the enzymes and receptors in question could have substantial adverse effects. Whether it will adversely affect the unique person Tamara, and at that dose, is a matter of conjecture.
I am somewhat of a cynic, perhaps, but I suspect that some companies include some of the more powerful herbs in their blended products for the sole purpose of producing effects. You may conclude that the product is efficacious, simply because there is a stimulant (e.g. ephedra) or suppressive (e.g. licorice) herb in the blend.
I just looked at the label of the greens concentrate product that I own, and this brand does not have licorice in it (Canadian product, by Webber). I strongly urge you to put aside your product for the time being, and find something similar without licorice in it, to take its place. I would give your body a minimum of 6 weeks away from this licorice source, but better, 12 weeks, before I would use it again. Nothing wrong with using it episodically. The problems arise from daily use.
Lar
Posted by jujube on October 29, 2004, at 12:33:32
In reply to Re: Licorice Root and greens powder supps » jujube, posted by Larry Hoover on October 29, 2004, at 11:11:54
Thanks Larry, I appreciate your taking the time to respond. I will try to find a product without licorice root in it. I'm Canadian, so hoepfully I can find the Webber product in a health food store in my city. The only ones I've come across so far have been Nu-Greens, Greens Plus and the drugstore no-name ones. I'll have to take a closer look, or perhaps order something on-line.
Thanks again, and take care.
Tamara
> > Larry,
> >
> > The green food supplement, Nu Greens powder form, I take contains 125 mg of licorice root (4:1 extract, 15% glyycyrrhizin). I take it every day, and have for a number of months. Can this be potentially dangerous? Would it be advisable to take a break of a few days to a week and then start up again? Anything you can tell me would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Tamara
>
> Yes, prolonged inhibition of the enzymes and receptors in question could have substantial adverse effects. Whether it will adversely affect the unique person Tamara, and at that dose, is a matter of conjecture.
>
> I am somewhat of a cynic, perhaps, but I suspect that some companies include some of the more powerful herbs in their blended products for the sole purpose of producing effects. You may conclude that the product is efficacious, simply because there is a stimulant (e.g. ephedra) or suppressive (e.g. licorice) herb in the blend.
>
> I just looked at the label of the greens concentrate product that I own, and this brand does not have licorice in it (Canadian product, by Webber). I strongly urge you to put aside your product for the time being, and find something similar without licorice in it, to take its place. I would give your body a minimum of 6 weeks away from this licorice source, but better, 12 weeks, before I would use it again. Nothing wrong with using it episodically. The problems arise from daily use.
>
> Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 29, 2004, at 12:39:25
In reply to Re: Licorice Root and greens powder supps » Larry Hoover, posted by jujube on October 29, 2004, at 12:33:32
> Thanks Larry, I appreciate your taking the time to respond. I will try to find a product without licorice root in it. I'm Canadian, so hoepfully I can find the Webber product in a health food store in my city. The only ones I've come across so far have been Nu-Greens, Greens Plus and the drugstore no-name ones. I'll have to take a closer look, or perhaps order something on-line.
You're welcome. I just figured you were American....an odds thing.
The stuff I have is called AllGreens. I've seen it in a number of different stores.
Lar
Posted by jujube on October 29, 2004, at 12:50:54
In reply to Re: Licorice Root and greens powder supps » jujube, posted by Larry Hoover on October 29, 2004, at 12:39:25
> > Thanks Larry, I appreciate your taking the time to respond. I will try to find a product without licorice root in it. I'm Canadian, so hoepfully I can find the Webber product in a health food store in my city. The only ones I've come across so far have been Nu-Greens, Greens Plus and the drugstore no-name ones. I'll have to take a closer look, or perhaps order something on-line.
>
> You're welcome. I just figured you were American....an odds thing.
>
> The stuff I have is called AllGreens. I've seen it in a number of different stores.
>
> LarLots of American relatives, but I've been in Canada all my life (except for a brief period when we lived in New York - dad was transferred). It seems that it is much easier to get supplements in the U.S. We are a bit more conservative in Canada I guess. Oh well, I do love living in Canada. And, in spite of everything people hear, the health care system isn't that bad (at least I've never experienced a problem - yet). Anyways, I'll try to get my hands on some AllGreens. Thanks again, you are such a wealth of knowledge, and I've learned so much from reading your posts. Very useful and extremely informative. Take care.
Tamara
Posted by tealady on October 29, 2004, at 17:20:54
In reply to Re: Licorice Root and greens powder supps » Larry Hoover, posted by jujube on October 29, 2004, at 12:50:54
Hi Tamara,
If you've been on the licorice for over a month you are probably best to taper off slowly over 2 weeks to 2 months..depending on what you body allows.
It's much the same as if you were on cortisol or pdrugs opr even T3(thyroid) for an extended period of time.
If you taper it allows time for your adrenals to kick in gradually and hopefully function well after a bit of a rest.Jan (really going now<g>)
Posted by tealady on October 29, 2004, at 17:38:17
In reply to Re: ? for Tealady and Raybakes - Licorice Root, posted by Larry Hoover on October 29, 2004, at 8:58:58
Thanks for the explanation.
I still can't fathom those research abstracts.
Just knew it increased cortisol and seemed to increase oestrogen in me..or alter something there, so I thought I should comment on that.
I've spent an age trying to decipher the articles on it.Gee I hope it wasn't inhibited cholesterol a lot as mine was 6.0 on licorice, sigh.
Thyroid hormones seem to have dropped it from 7.0 to 5.7 last test.
Still looking for something to aid in the breakdown of cholesterol(or even some research!)besides thyroid hormones....as opposed to a synthesis inhibitor. I need more of everything cholesterol is supposed to break down into<g>. I make cholesterol just fine though <g>. Funny how most people have no problems there.Also the deglycyrrhizinated form (DGL), some say it supports the adrenals. These are a few people who also take cortisol for low adrenal function at least on occassion. I can't find anything on this? Just wondered if you'd come across anything.
Posted by jujube on October 29, 2004, at 17:54:27
In reply to Re: Licorice Root and greens powder supps, posted by tealady on October 29, 2004, at 17:20:54
Thanks Jan. I have actually been using the licorice root (about 125 mg), as an ingredient of the green foods supplement, for at least 6 months, with a short break at one point. Recently (for about the past few weeks), I increased the greens to two servings (which would have given me 250 mg of licorice). Perhaps the prolonged use could explain the lethargy I have been experiencing. If any damage has been done to my electrolyte balance or my adrenals by prolonged use, will it correct itself by stopping the product? (Sorry, I know you are trying to get away.)
Thanks again Jan. If you are going on holidays, I hope you have a great time! Take care.
Tamara
> Hi Tamara,
> If you've been on the licorice for over a month you are probably best to taper off slowly over 2 weeks to 2 months..depending on what you body allows.
> It's much the same as if you were on cortisol or pdrugs opr even T3(thyroid) for an extended period of time.
> If you taper it allows time for your adrenals to kick in gradually and hopefully function well after a bit of a rest.
>
> Jan (really going now<g>)
>
>
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 30, 2004, at 9:06:17
In reply to Re: ? for Tealady and Raybakes - Licorice Root » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on October 29, 2004, at 17:38:17
> Thanks for the explanation.
> I still can't fathom those research abstracts.
> Just knew it increased cortisol and seemed to increase oestrogen in me..or alter something there, so I thought I should comment on that.
> I've spent an age trying to decipher the articles on it.
>
> Gee I hope it wasn't inhibited cholesterol a lot as mine was 6.0 on licorice, sigh.
> Thyroid hormones seem to have dropped it from 7.0 to 5.7 last test.I get confused with the variety of lab tests, and reporting protocols. Often, when talking about cholesterol, very different concepts are being described.
What is your HDL:LDL ratio?
> Still looking for something to aid in the breakdown of cholesterol(or even some research!)besides thyroid hormones....as opposed to a synthesis inhibitor. I need more of everything cholesterol is supposed to break down into<g>.
Cholesterol does a lot of things in the body. It's much more than a substrate for tranformations. It dissolves into neuronal membranes, and modulates receptor sensitivity, for example. I'd also be concerned about the ratio of cholesterol to DHEA/DHEA-S. I think more in patterns than in absolute measurements.
> I make cholesterol just fine though <g>. Funny how most people have no problems there.
Your liver cranks out cholesterol by the bucket, even if you eat none.
Frankly, I think the whole hoohah about dietary cholesterol intake is bogus. Far more important is to control the intake of de novo (new) cholesterol synthesis modulators. Some fatty acids increase synthesis, and some decrease it.
> Also the deglycyrrhizinated form (DGL), some say it supports the adrenals.
I can't imagine how it would do so. Do you have a particular link to a site?
> These are a few people who also take cortisol for low adrenal function at least on occassion. I can't find anything on this? Just wondered if you'd come across anything.
Physiological doses of hydrocortisone I've heard of, for this purpose, yes. Again, just as with licorice, the effect is to trick the hypothalamus into giving the adrenals a little vacation. True adrenal insufficiency (Addison's disease) is rare, but the suggested treatments are also used for low adrenal output conditions, in modified form. You don't want to shut the adrenals down entirely.
Lar
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