![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 72. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 31, 2004, at 7:54:59
....of various sub-threads and such. My brain has been working on some thoughts, but I don't know if I will find the appropriate places to mention them. If I seem to have overlooked a question or concern, please bring it up again. Best, I suppose, would be to post a link here, pointing back to the dropped thread.
Thanks.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on September 1, 2004, at 0:38:29
In reply to I've lost track........., posted by Larry Hoover on August 31, 2004, at 7:54:59
> ....of various sub-threads and such. My brain has been working on some thoughts, but I don't know if I will find the appropriate places to mention them. If I seem to have overlooked a question or concern, please bring it up again. Best, I suppose, would be to post a link here, pointing back to the dropped thread.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Lar
Sure, make us do all the work because you've been too busy with your other friends on all the other boards! :-)Actually, I re-sent about 3 posts to you so you can see that they're open. (Other than those I think all you've missed from my end is Simus and I making more jokes about your personal life.)
By the way, I was really sorry to hear about Gabbi's PC. Wish I were in a position to help.
Kara
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 1, 2004, at 10:16:48
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » Larry Hoover, posted by KaraS on September 1, 2004, at 0:38:29
> > ....of various sub-threads and such. My brain has been working on some thoughts, but I don't know if I will find the appropriate places to mention them. If I seem to have overlooked a question or concern, please bring it up again. Best, I suppose, would be to post a link here, pointing back to the dropped thread.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Lar
>
>
> Sure, make us do all the work because you've been too busy with your other friends on all the other boards! :-)Ya, that's it. Delegation of authority.
> Actually, I re-sent about 3 posts to you so you can see that they're open. (Other than those I think all you've missed from my end is Simus and I making more jokes about your personal life.)
Ya, but mixed in there is some relevant stuff. What I find relevant and what you find relevant may also be different concerns.
> By the way, I was really sorry to hear about Gabbi's PC. Wish I were in a position to help.
>
> KaraYa, I appreciate the sentiment. The support she has received has been very heart-warming, and very much appreciated. I'm sure she'll address the issue when she gets back online.
I'm going to keep you in suspense a little longer. I'm off to the lake with the kids.
L8r,
Lar
Posted by KaraS on September 1, 2004, at 17:13:19
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on September 1, 2004, at 10:16:48
> > > ....of various sub-threads and such. My brain has been working on some thoughts, but I don't know if I will find the appropriate places to mention them. If I seem to have overlooked a question or concern, please bring it up again. Best, I suppose, would be to post a link here, pointing back to the dropped thread.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > Lar
> >
> >
> > Sure, make us do all the work because you've been too busy with your other friends on all the other boards! :-)
>
> Ya, that's it. Delegation of authority.
>
> > Actually, I re-sent about 3 posts to you so you can see that they're open. (Other than those I think all you've missed from my end is Simus and I making more jokes about your personal life.)
>
> Ya, but mixed in there is some relevant stuff. What I find relevant and what you find relevant may also be different concerns.Be careful what you wish for or I'll send you EVERYTHING that was open for me and for Simus!
> > By the way, I was really sorry to hear about Gabbi's PC. Wish I were in a position to help.
> >
> > Kara
>
> Ya, I appreciate the sentiment. The support she has received has been very heart-warming, and very much appreciated. I'm sure she'll address the issue when she gets back online.
>
> I'm going to keep you in suspense a little longer. I'm off to the lake with the kids.
>
> L8r,
> Lar
Ok, have a good time! (I may be blocked by the time you get back so don't hurry on my account.)-K
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 2, 2004, at 9:38:36
In reply to Re: I've lost track........., posted by KaraS on September 1, 2004, at 17:13:19
> > Ya, but mixed in there is some relevant stuff. What I find relevant and what you find relevant may also be different concerns.
>
> Be careful what you wish for or I'll send you EVERYTHING that was open for me and for Simus!I wasn't complaining. I was explaining. Everything would be fine.
> Ok, have a good time! (I may be blocked by the time you get back so don't hurry on my account.)
>
> -KOh, don't be doing that. It's not worth it.
Lar
Posted by LOOPS on September 2, 2004, at 14:32:32
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on September 2, 2004, at 9:38:36
Personal experience over past week -
taurine taken with glutamine + B 50 works better for me than taurine without glutamine, which makes me feel more relaxed but totally unmotivated and depressed after a few days.
Taurine + tryptophan + glutamine + NATyrosine + cofactors works better, but have to get ratios right or end up too one way. Not perfect but better (doable).
Any more on taurine??
Thanks Laz
Lops
p.s. SJW now completely stopped working for some reason, despite trying to up dose.
Posted by KaraS on September 2, 2004, at 16:29:14
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on September 2, 2004, at 9:38:36
> > > Ya, but mixed in there is some relevant stuff. What I find relevant and what you find relevant may also be different concerns.
> >
> > Be careful what you wish for or I'll send you EVERYTHING that was open for me and for Simus!
>
> I wasn't complaining. I was explaining. Everything would be fine.Honestly, I think there was only one thing missing: in one of Simus' posts about the kind of food sensitivity test she had done. You said that there were good tests for this and not so good ones. She mentioned RASP and either ELISA or ERISA (I think it was the former). The ELISA/ERISA one I believe is what I had years ago. That's the good one, isn't it?
>
> > Ok, have a good time! (I may be blocked by the time you get back so don't hurry on my account.)
> >
> > -K
>
> Oh, don't be doing that. It's not worth it.
>
> Lar
I didn't. Dr. Bob was merciful. He let me blow off steam. I only got a PBC.
P.S. How old are your two sons?
Posted by Simus on September 3, 2004, at 0:10:58
In reply to I've lost track........., posted by Larry Hoover on August 31, 2004, at 7:54:59
Larry (& Kara please comment too),
You had asked me which food allergy test I had done.
> How was the testing done? There are good ways, and there are absolutely bogus ways.
Well, I have it back now. It is the Immuno 1 Bloodprint Reactive Foods test done at Immuno Labs in Florida. The order for bloodwork had it under a "RASP" test, and I think that it is an ELISA test: an enzyme-linked immunosorbant assay. I hope this helps.
The test scale is 0-4, and the highest I got was a 2 on cow's milk, eggs and celery. I tested as a 1 on 29 other things, mostly fruits and vegetables. (Side note, chocolate is NOT on my list. YEE-HAH!)
And then there was the fish oil question. I would like to know what you think...
> I can't think of a single disorder where fish oils are contraindicated. If you can find such a reference, let me know, 'kay?
It is because of the pyroluria condition. Dr. Edmond O`Flaherty has a very good Omega3 website http://www.omega3.20megsfree.com/whats_new.html where he included some of Dr. Walsh's work at the Pfeiffer clinic on pyrolurics. "We've had considerable success in using PUFA's (poly-unsaturated fatty acids) to treat persons with mental illness, but have found that omega-3 and omega-6 oils can cause clear worsening if given inappropriately. Pyrolurics need omega-6..... whereas most other patients need omega-3. There is a competition between o3 and o6 for zinc, B-6, and the delta 5,6 desaturases. The ideal would be to identify a person's biochemical individuality, with respect to PUFA's, then treat accordingly."
I also got the results of my thyroid test. Total T3 is 163 (95-170), free T4 is 0.97 (0.73-1.79), but the TSH is 6.71 (0.3-5.5(I know this should be 3.0)). She diagnosed me as hypothyroid, but I just don't know... I don't have any hypothyroid symptoms. In fact, I have several hyperthyroid symptoms. So I am confused... I need to do more research to see what is going on. I am wondering if the adrenal fatigue is a factor, or something entirely different. I really don't understand how Synthroid or Armor would help me. Can someone explain any of this???
Simus
Posted by KaraS on September 3, 2004, at 5:29:44
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » Larry Hoover, posted by Simus on September 3, 2004, at 0:10:58
> Larry (& Kara please comment too),
>
> You had asked me which food allergy test I had done.
>
> > How was the testing done? There are good ways, and there are absolutely bogus ways.
>
> Well, I have it back now. It is the Immuno 1 Bloodprint Reactive Foods test done at Immuno Labs in Florida. The order for bloodwork had it under a "RASP" test, and I think that it is an ELISA test: an enzyme-linked immunosorbant assay. I hope this helps.
>
> The test scale is 0-4, and the highest I got was a 2 on cow's milk, eggs and celery. I tested as a 1 on 29 other things, mostly fruits and vegetables. (Side note, chocolate is NOT on my list. YEE-HAH!)
>
> And then there was the fish oil question. I would like to know what you think...
>
> > I can't think of a single disorder where fish oils are contraindicated. If you can find such a reference, let me know, 'kay?
>
> It is because of the pyroluria condition. Dr. Edmond O`Flaherty has a very good Omega3 website http://www.omega3.20megsfree.com/whats_new.html where he included some of Dr. Walsh's work at the Pfeiffer clinic on pyrolurics. "We've had considerable success in using PUFA's (poly-unsaturated fatty acids) to treat persons with mental illness, but have found that omega-3 and omega-6 oils can cause clear worsening if given inappropriately. Pyrolurics need omega-6..... whereas most other patients need omega-3. There is a competition between o3 and o6 for zinc, B-6, and the delta 5,6 desaturases. The ideal would be to identify a person's biochemical individuality, with respect to PUFA's, then treat accordingly."
>
> I also got the results of my thyroid test. Total T3 is 163 (95-170), free T4 is 0.97 (0.73-1.79), but the TSH is 6.71 (0.3-5.5(I know this should be 3.0)). She diagnosed me as hypothyroid, but I just don't know... I don't have any hypothyroid symptoms. In fact, I have several hyperthyroid symptoms. So I am confused... I need to do more research to see what is going on. I am wondering if the adrenal fatigue is a factor, or something entirely different. I really don't understand how Synthroid or Armor would help me. Can someone explain any of this???
>
> SimusHi Simus,
I'll let Larry talk about the food sensitivity test and the fish oil issue since I don't know much about them. (But yay, chocolate is ok!) In fact it sounds like there are no foods that you are really sensitive to.
In terms of the thyroid issue, I can't imagine that you're not hypothyroid with a TSH that high. I don't know if you've read anything about TSH or whether your doctor has said anything to you about it. It's part of a feedback loop mechanism. Your pituitary gland figures out via another hormone that your thyroid hormone levels are low and produces more TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) to stimulate the thyroid to produce more thyroxine. It's like a jockey riding a horse. He senses it's going too slowly so he whips it harder. Your pituitary gland is the jockey and your thyroid gland is the horse. The TSH is the whip. If your system is feeling the need to whip your thyroid that hard, then your thyroid is not performing the way it should.
Is it possible that you have the hypothyroid symptoms but don't notice them because you're taking gingseng (or at least you were) and Wellbutrin which speed you up and might camouflage some of the low thyroid symptoms? I can't think of any other possible explanation. I'd be interested to see what Larry says about this. What symptoms do you have that you consider hyperthyroid? That might help me to understand as well.
What synthroid or Armour could do for you is bring your thyroxine levels up to where they should be. This would make your body work better in many ways since thyroid hormone is involved with getting energy into the cells and it's also behind your metabolism rate. Taking the hormone could help you lose weight and feel more energetic!!!! It's also involved with the production of the neurotransmitters dopamine and norepinephrine so you might not need as much (or any?) of the Wellbutrin. It's not like taking fake estrogen where you have all kinds of horrible side effects from it. You really don't notice any side effects from the thyroid hormone (unless you're taking way too much). I can't think of anything I've ever taken that's so benign - not even advil - so don't get hung up on the fact that it's a hormone. (Our perceptions of hormones are colored by products like Premarin.) You just feel better taking it. (By the way, 1 in ever 5 women in our age group gets this.)
P.S. She didn't mention anything about Hashimotos, eh? I'm like a broken record sometimes, aren't I?Kara
Posted by Simus on September 3, 2004, at 13:20:36
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 3, 2004, at 5:29:44
Kara,
The thing that has me confused is that my total T3 is high normal and my free T4 is normal. I don't understand this. I could understand the high TSH if the T3 and/or T4 were low. So I am wondering if something else, like pituitary, is involved.
The past two weeks I have been dizzy, anxious, very oily skin, hair loss, no weight gain/loss though...
Thanks so much for your continued concern and support. I know you have enough to deal with in your own life. God bless you.
Simus
Posted by Simus on September 3, 2004, at 23:47:55
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » Larry Hoover, posted by Simus on September 3, 2004, at 0:10:58
Kara and Larry,
Well today around 6pm I FINALLY got up the courage to try the licorice after a couple of years. (I have become leary of taking anything since a few BAD reactions.) Well... At around 9pm I had a slice of pizza (late and not great supper). I wasn't feeling well, but I attributed it to waiting so long for supper. Within minutes I was running to the bathroom and my stomach violently returned my dinner. Then the diarrhea started. I was so miserable that I was contemplating going to the hospital. I called my family physician and told him I took licorice. He wasn't surprised with the reaction, and said that licorice is toxic to a lot of people. He told me to just ride it out for about 12-24 hours, and it will be out of my system and I will feel better (and to stick to liquids).
I was just wondering if either of you have any thoughts on this.
Simus
Posted by KaraS on September 4, 2004, at 0:02:16
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 3, 2004, at 13:20:36
> Kara,
>
> The thing that has me confused is that my total T3 is high normal and my free T4 is normal. I don't understand this. I could understand the high TSH if the T3 and/or T4 were low. So I am wondering if something else, like pituitary, is involved.You got me on that one. Sorry for going into all the basics then. Didn't mean to talk down to you - I just didn't understand what your issue was. Have you had a chance to ask your doctor that question?
>
> The past two weeks I have been dizzy, anxious, very oily skin, hair loss, no weight gain/loss though...Have you started taking any supplement or anything that might have caused these side effects? As you probably know, only the hair loss is typical for hypothyroid (that I know of anyway). How strange! Maybe when you know who gets back from daddy mode, he'll have some insights.
Wish I could help you more than that. Sometimes it's two steps forward and one step back I guess.
How frustrating for you though. Know that I'm thinking of you and hoping that you'll be feeling better soon.> Thanks so much for your continued concern and support. I know you have enough to deal with in your own life. God bless you.
>
> SimusI've been doing a bit better and I got a temporary (but full-time hours) job. The people seem very nice. There's the possibility of it becoming permanent though it probably still wouldn't be enough to live on. It's a an afternoon to evening job so I'll still have the mornings to interview for something better. So, all in all, a good first step.
Fortunately, this opportunity came after I'd already been feeling somewhat better so that i could do well on the interview. (Had it been a week earlier, I doubt I could have risen to the occasion.)
It's a long road sometimes I guess.
Please keep me posted on how you're doing.-K
Posted by Simus on September 4, 2004, at 1:07:31
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 4, 2004, at 0:02:16
> > Kara,
> >
> > The thing that has me confused is that my total T3 is high normal and my free T4 is normal. I don't understand this. I could understand the high TSH if the T3 and/or T4 were low. So I am wondering if something else, like pituitary, is involved.
>
> You got me on that one. Sorry for going into all the basics then. Didn't mean to talk down to you - I just didn't understand what your issue was. Have you had a chance to ask your doctor that question?You didn't talk down to me at all. No, I haven't asked the doctor yet. The cynical side of me doesn't really expect the doctor to know what is causing it either.
>
> >
> > The past two weeks I have been dizzy, anxious, very oily skin, hair loss, no weight gain/loss though...
>
> Have you started taking any supplement or anything that might have caused these side effects? As you probably know, only the hair loss is typical for hypothyroid (that I know of anyway). How strange! Maybe when you know who gets back from daddy mode, he'll have some insights.I have noticed that I seem to have a yearly "symptom" cycle. Right around August I have had anxiety and just feel generally dizzy/nausious and yucky. Then around January I have had to deal with depression and low energy. I am wondering if the thyroid can fluctuate between a little too high and a little too low throughout the year.
>
> Wish I could help you more than that. Sometimes it's two steps forward and one step back I guess.
> How frustrating for you though. Know that I'm thinking of you and hoping that you'll be feeling better soon.Thanks. =)
>
> > Thanks so much for your continued concern and support. I know you have enough to deal with in your own life. God bless you.
> >
> > Simus
>
> I've been doing a bit better and I got a temporary (but full-time hours) job. The people seem very nice. There's the possibility of it becoming permanent though it probably still wouldn't be enough to live on. It's a an afternoon to evening job so I'll still have the mornings to interview for something better. So, all in all, a good first step.WOO-HOO!!! I am happy for you! Hey, I celebrate any progress forward in any area of my life at this point, and I am sure you are in the same boat.
>
> Fortunately, this opportunity came after I'd already been feeling somewhat better so that i could do well on the interview. (Had it been a week earlier, I doubt I could have risen to the occasion.)Timing is everything. Just this week I spoke to some people where I used to work. They have too much work and need people, but I just felt so bad... If it had been just a month earlier...
>
> It's a long road sometimes I guess.Yeah. It sure is. Sometimes it seems endless...
>
> Please keep me posted on how you're doing.Ditto. If we don't have any good news to report, we can always resort to pondering the truth about the elusive Larry. Hey, I have one. Could it be that the young Hoover boys are actually Larry clones? Maybe he just couldn't keep up with all the questions here, and so he is multiplying himself. What do you think?
Simus
Posted by KaraS on September 4, 2004, at 1:10:39
In reply to Licorice, posted by Simus on September 3, 2004, at 23:47:55
> Kara and Larry,
>
> Well today around 6pm I FINALLY got up the courage to try the licorice after a couple of years. (I have become leary of taking anything since a few BAD reactions.) Well... At around 9pm I had a slice of pizza (late and not great supper). I wasn't feeling well, but I attributed it to waiting so long for supper. Within minutes I was running to the bathroom and my stomach violently returned my dinner. Then the diarrhea started. I was so miserable that I was contemplating going to the hospital. I called my family physician and told him I took licorice. He wasn't surprised with the reaction, and said that licorice is toxic to a lot of people. He told me to just ride it out for about 12-24 hours, and it will be out of my system and I will feel better (and to stick to liquids).
>
> I was just wondering if either of you have any thoughts on this.
>
> Simus
Wow, how scary! I feel so bad for you. You try to do things so that you can feel better and then you have to go through something like that. Do you think it could have something to do with the age of the herbs or that maybe you have some other problem now that got exacerbated by the licorice (since you haven't been feeling well for a couple of weeks now anyway)?I usually take a small portion of things first because I'm too scared and then the next time I take a little more until I'm brave enough to take the whole thing. (I had never heard that about licorice having that kind of effect on people - but I doubt I'll ever have the nerve to try it or anything else for a while now.)
I do hope you feel better tomorrow. Hopefully, you'll be able to sleep through the worst of it and wake up healthy and feeling good tomorrow.
Sending you my love,
Kara
Posted by Simus on September 4, 2004, at 2:11:06
In reply to Re: Licorice » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 4, 2004, at 1:10:39
> > Kara and Larry,
> >
> > Well today around 6pm I FINALLY got up the courage to try the licorice after a couple of years. (I have become leary of taking anything since a few BAD reactions.) Well... At around 9pm I had a slice of pizza (late and not great supper). I wasn't feeling well, but I attributed it to waiting so long for supper. Within minutes I was running to the bathroom and my stomach violently returned my dinner. Then the diarrhea started. I was so miserable that I was contemplating going to the hospital. I called my family physician and told him I took licorice. He wasn't surprised with the reaction, and said that licorice is toxic to a lot of people. He told me to just ride it out for about 12-24 hours, and it will be out of my system and I will feel better (and to stick to liquids).
> >
> > I was just wondering if either of you have any thoughts on this.
> >
> > Simus
>
>
> Wow, how scary! I feel so bad for you. You try to do things so that you can feel better and then you have to go through something like that. Do you think it could have something to do with the age of the herbsI just got a new bottle from the Naturopath.
> or that maybe you have some other problem now that got exacerbated by the licorice (since you haven't been feeling well for a couple of weeks now anyway)?
Very well could be...
>
> I usually take a small portion of things first because I'm too scared and then the next time I take a little more until I'm brave enough to take the whole thing. (I had never heard that about licorice having that kind of effect on people - but I doubt I'll ever have the nerve to try it or anything else for a while now.)Oh, I hope you don't give up on trying new things to help you just because I had one bad experience. We have to keep looking...
>
> I do hope you feel better tomorrow. Hopefully, you'll be able to sleep through the worst of it and wake up healthy and feeling good tomorrow.
>
> Sending you my love,
> KaraYou are such a treasured friend. God bless you.
Simus
Posted by KaraS on September 4, 2004, at 13:53:38
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 4, 2004, at 1:07:31
Hi Simus,
Are you feeling better today?
> > > Kara,
> > >
> > > The thing that has me confused is that my total T3 is high normal and my free T4 is normal. I don't understand this. I could understand the high TSH if the T3 and/or T4 were low. So I am wondering if something else, like pituitary, is involved.
> >
> > You got me on that one. Sorry for going into all the basics then. Didn't mean to talk down to you - I just didn't understand what your issue was. Have you had a chance to ask your doctor that question?
>
> You didn't talk down to me at all. No, I haven't asked the doctor yet. The cynical side of me doesn't really expect the doctor to know what is causing it either.
I understand. You get weary after a while.
> > > The past two weeks I have been dizzy, anxious, very oily skin, hair loss, no weight gain/loss though...
> >
> > Have you started taking any supplement or anything that might have caused these side effects? As you probably know, only the hair loss is typical for hypothyroid (that I know of anyway). How strange! Maybe when you know who gets back from daddy mode, he'll have some insights.
>
> I have noticed that I seem to have a yearly "symptom" cycle. Right around August I have had anxiety and just feel generally dizzy/nausious and yucky. Then around January I have had to deal with depression and low energy. I am wondering if the thyroid can fluctuate between a little too high and a little too low throughout the year.Have you ever considered bipolar disease? I know it seems like a stretch but I was reading other posts by people who were diagnosed with that and some of them had very mild conditions. Do you remember BarbaraCat? Did you ever read any of her posts? I would never have guessed by the symptoms she listed that she was bipolar. Yet that was her diagnosis and lithium ended up helping her immensely. Did you have these symptoms prior to the Lexapro because medications can bring on the bipolar condition? Jane Pauley's condition was brought on by steroids which obviously effect the sex hormones. Lexapro definitely effected your sex hormones as it gave you the menopausal syptoms. Maybe messing with the hormones is enough to do it. OTOH, if you were bipolar, then wouldn't the Wellbutrin have made you quite manic? I don't know. If you think this might be worth looking into, I'll find the BarbaraCat posting(s) for you.
> > Wish I could help you more than that. Sometimes it's two steps forward and one step back I guess.
> > How frustrating for you though. Know that I'm thinking of you and hoping that you'll be feeling better soon.
>
> Thanks. =)
> >
> > > Thanks so much for your continued concern and support. I know you have enough to deal with in your own life. God bless you.
> > >
> > > Simus
> >
> > I've been doing a bit better and I got a temporary (but full-time hours) job. The people seem very nice. There's the possibility of it becoming permanent though it probably still wouldn't be enough to live on. It's a an afternoon to evening job so I'll still have the mornings to interview for something better. So, all in all, a good first step.
>
> WOO-HOO!!! I am happy for you! Hey, I celebrate any progress forward in any area of my life at this point, and I am sure you are in the same boat.
> >
> > Fortunately, this opportunity came after I'd already been feeling somewhat better so that i could do well on the interview. (Had it been a week earlier, I doubt I could have risen to the occasion.)
>
> Timing is everything. Just this week I spoke to some people where I used to work. They have too much work and need people, but I just felt so bad... If it had been just a month earlier...Yes, but if you had gone back to work and then gotten sick like this, it could have been disasterous for you both physically and mentally.
> > It's a long road sometimes I guess.
>
> Yeah. It sure is. Sometimes it seems endless...
Yeah, I know. But then when something good happens again, you feel encouraged again and it doesn't seem so endless.
> > Please keep me posted on how you're doing.
>
> Ditto. If we don't have any good news to report, we can always resort to pondering the truth about the elusive Larry. Hey, I have one. Could it be that the young Hoover boys are actually Larry clones? Maybe he just couldn't keep up with all the questions here, and so he is multiplying himself. What do you think?
>
> Simus
>
>Yes, that's a good idea! He's been so busy, I'm not sure he's even reading these. Just think of all the fun we could have! I'm certain you're right about the cloning. Knowing Larry, he figured out how to do it years ago. I just can't wait for them to grow up and help us out here when that selfish Larry decides to take vacations. (LOL)
BTW, did you notice how excited Larry got about the article I posted for him? He was so funny. (I was so glad I sent it as I had been debating whether or not he'd be interested in it.)
Keep the faith,
Kara
Posted by Simus on September 4, 2004, at 18:54:25
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 4, 2004, at 13:53:38
> Hi Simus,
>
> Are you feeling better today?Much! Thank you for always caring. You are very special.
> > > > The past two weeks I have been dizzy, anxious, very oily skin, hair loss, no weight gain/loss though...
> > >
> > > Have you started taking any supplement or anything that might have caused these side effects? As you probably know, only the hair loss is typical for hypothyroid (that I know of anyway). How strange! Maybe when you know who gets back from daddy mode, he'll have some insights.
> >
> > I have noticed that I seem to have a yearly "symptom" cycle. Right around August I have had anxiety and just feel generally dizzy/nausious and yucky. Then around January I have had to deal with depression and low energy. I am wondering if the thyroid can fluctuate between a little too high and a little too low throughout the year.
>
> Have you ever considered bipolar disease? I know it seems like a stretch but I was reading other posts by people who were diagnosed with that and some of them had very mild conditions. Do you remember BarbaraCat? Did you ever read any of her posts? I would never have guessed by the symptoms she listed that she was bipolar. Yet that was her diagnosis and lithium ended up helping her immensely. Did you have these symptoms prior to the Lexapro because medications can bring on the bipolar condition? Jane Pauley's condition was brought on by steroids which obviously effect the sex hormones. Lexapro definitely effected your sex hormones as it gave you the menopausal syptoms. Maybe messing with the hormones is enough to do it. OTOH, if you were bipolar, then wouldn't the Wellbutrin have made you quite manic? I don't know. If you think this might be worth looking into, I'll find the BarbaraCat posting(s) for you.When I was diagnosed with depression, I studied the symptoms of manic depression and compared the manic phase to the anxiety I was experiencing. It really didn't seem to fit me. Actually, the "summer anxiety" was usually accompanied by some level of depression.
> > > Fortunately, this opportunity came after I'd already been feeling somewhat better so that i could do well on the interview. (Had it been a week earlier, I doubt I could have risen to the occasion.)
> >
> > Timing is everything. Just this week I spoke to some people where I used to work. They have too much work and need people, but I just felt so bad... If it had been just a month earlier...
>
> Yes, but if you had gone back to work and then gotten sick like this, it could have been disasterous for you both physically and mentally.Oh, I would have felt awful about it. These were the people that put up with me for 3 months on Lexapro (virtually non-functional) and then one day came in to find I was on sick leave for an undetermined amount of time. Then if I got sick again as soon as I came back, I would have beaten myself up over it so bad...
>
>
> > > It's a long road sometimes I guess.
> >
> > Yeah. It sure is. Sometimes it seems endless...
>
>
> Yeah, I know. But then when something good happens again, you feel encouraged again and it doesn't seem so endless.Yeah... =)
>
>
> > > Please keep me posted on how you're doing.
> >
> > Ditto. If we don't have any good news to report, we can always resort to pondering the truth about the elusive Larry. Hey, I have one. Could it be that the young Hoover boys are actually Larry clones? Maybe he just couldn't keep up with all the questions here, and so he is multiplying himself. What do you think?
> >
> > Simus
> >
> >
>
> Yes, that's a good idea! He's been so busy, I'm not sure he's even reading these. Just think of all the fun we could have! I'm certain you're right about the cloning. Knowing Larry, he figured out how to do it years ago. I just can't wait for them to grow up and help us out here when that selfish Larry decides to take vacations. (LOL)Next time he goes on vacation, I promise I will let you come barge into their privacy with me. We'll be like Lucy and Ethel in Hollywood looking for movie stars, only we'll be Kara and Simus in the Alps looking for Larry and Gabbix2(did I get her name right?).
>
> BTW, did you notice how excited Larry got about the article I posted for him? He was so funny. (I was so glad I sent it as I had been debating whether or not he'd be interested in it.)NO! What it on Alternative??? I will have to look for it. Uhhh... You're not trying to elbow me right out of the next vacation, are you???
>
> Keep the faith,
> KaraDitto to you, my friend,
Simus
Posted by tealady on September 4, 2004, at 21:43:16
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 4, 2004, at 18:54:25
Just a couple of thoughts..I've no idea whether you may benefit from thyroid meds...probably not if I HAD to guess.
Your results are strange (similar to what mine were actually before thyroid meds..but yours are a tad more so). I've benefited from thyroid meds..but it's been a very difficult road, and one I'd not readily recommend without tyring other things first. Definitely just taking one t4 tablet a day just made me much worse, but then we are all individual. One thing about thyroid meds is..very difficult to get off once on. I was very symptomatic too or I wouldn't have tried them.I don't think anyone could tell you with your test results what you should do...but see if can get FT3 and perhaps RT3(that's Reverse T3.) taken together with he T3, Ft4 and TSH...the FT3 is important.
I'd guess your results may be plausible with highish RT3 and low Ft3, (mine RT3 looked OK I guess..but that was taken byu itself after I'd been on thyroid meds for a long time..shuld have been taken before really to be meaningful ..and with the total T3 etc for a ratio)I really have no idea exactly how the various thyroid hormones (T3, RT3, T3S, T2's, T4..the free levels and the total levels) relate to TSH feedback...noone does I think as yet. Your TSH is your Pituitary's output in reposnse to (amonst other things) thyroid hormone levels ..it would , I assume, be affected by other things too..including pdrugs, adrenals, cortisol levels, perhaps other hormone levels, things like aspirin, etc....I suspect its a lot more complicated than just what your FT3 and Ft4 levels are, but for most folk TSH has a good enough correlation to thyroid functioning....
The pituitary can get itself in a bind sometimes..eg. when the TSH has been suppressed when one is hyperthyroid for a long time..the TSH may (in SOME people) stay suppressed for a long time..months, maybe up to a couple of years after they have reduced their thyroid hormone levels...as measured by FT4 and FT3. Too many docs just go by TSH...which is OK if you don't have any problems. (like for the majority of people)
I'd like to suggest you tooddle over to http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroid/messages
and put your results up..make the heading meaningful..and also mention what pdrugs you are on.. Wellbutrin? at the time of the test..and how long for etc. A significant percentage of folks there are on or have been on pdrugs, so you may come across someone who can comment...well it's worth a try IMO.
Also mention your strange reaction to licorice, perhaps in another post..you may get some feedback. Although there are a lot of posts there every day so they don't all get answers.
You can always try the advanced search on there (if it works)...search on licorice...
The other thing worth checking , IMO, is your electrolyes..like potassium, magnesium, sodium,calcium etc. ..and your ferritin levels too(part of iron studies). Look for lowish potassium maybe? or perhaps VitD/calcium levels? Licorice lowers potassium..but I doubt just one lot of licorice would do this.
Worth checking before you consider thyroid hormones?
Posted by Simus on September 4, 2004, at 22:33:31
In reply to thyroid test results, licorice etc » Simus, posted by tealady on September 4, 2004, at 21:43:16
> I've no idea whether you may benefit from thyroid meds...probably not if I HAD to guess.
My symptoms lean a little toward the hyperthyroid right now, oddly enough, and I am a little leary to go any farther in that direction.
> Your results are strange (similar to what mine were actually before thyroid meds..but yours are a tad more so). I've benefited from thyroid meds..but it's been a very difficult road, and one I'd not readily recommend without tyring other things first. Definitely just taking one t4 tablet a day just made me much worse, but then we are all individual. One thing about thyroid meds is..very difficult to get off once on. I was very symptomatic too or I wouldn't have tried them.
Hmmmm... I will definitely consider the thyroid drugs carefully before I try any.
> I don't think anyone could tell you with your test results what you should do...but see if can get FT3 and perhaps RT3(that's Reverse T3.) taken together with he T3, Ft4 and TSH...the FT3 is important.
My sister has Hashimoto's Disease and my mother is hyperthyroid, so there could be some genetic things going on that would merit the further testing.
> I'd guess your results may be plausible with highish RT3 and low Ft3, (mine RT3 looked OK I guess..but that was taken byu itself after I'd been on thyroid meds for a long time..shuld have been taken before really to be meaningful ..and with the total T3 etc for a ratio)
>
> I really have no idea exactly how the various thyroid hormones (T3, RT3, T3S, T2's, T4..the free levels and the total levels) relate to TSH feedback...noone does I think as yet. Your TSH is your Pituitary's output in reposnse to (amonst other things) thyroid hormone levels ..I have wondered about the pituitary thing, but I don't exactly fit any of the profiles there either...
> it would , I assume, be affected by other things too..including pdrugs, adrenals, cortisol levels, perhaps other hormone levels, things like aspirin, etc....
Ahhhh... Now that is a definite possiblilty. I definitely had exhausted adrenals last spring, and I still have symptoms of adrenal fatigue.
> I suspect its a lot more complicated than just what your FT3 and Ft4 levels are, but for most folk TSH has a good enough correlation to thyroid functioning....
>
> The pituitary can get itself in a bind sometimes..eg. when the TSH has been suppressed when one is hyperthyroid for a long time..the TSH may (in SOME people) stay suppressed for a long time..months, maybe up to a couple of years after they have reduced their thyroid hormone levels...as measured by FT4 and FT3. Too many docs just go by TSH...which is OK if you don't have any problems. (like for the majority of people)
>
> I'd like to suggest you tooddle over to http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroid/messages
> and put your results up..make the heading meaningful..and also mention what pdrugs you are on.. Wellbutrin? at the time of the test..and how long for etc. A significant percentage of folks there are on or have been on pdrugs, so you may come across someone who can comment...well it's worth a try IMO.Thanks for the advice. Its worth a try...
> Also mention your strange reaction to licorice, perhaps in another post..you may get some feedback. Although there are a lot of posts there every day so they don't all get answers.
> You can always try the advanced search on there (if it works)...search on licorice...
> The other thing worth checking , IMO, is your electrolyes..like potassium, magnesium, sodium,calcium etc. ..and your ferritin levels too(part of iron studies).I definitely want to have this test.
> Look for lowish potassium maybe? or perhaps VitD/calcium levels? Licorice lowers potassium..but I doubt just one lot of licorice would do this.
> Worth checking before you consider thyroid hormones?Thanks for the advice, Tealady. You really took a lot of time just to help me, and it is an encouragement to me.
God bless,
Simus
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 5, 2004, at 9:52:56
In reply to any more on taurine?, posted by LOOPS on September 2, 2004, at 14:32:32
> Personal experience over past week -
>
> taurine taken with glutamine + B 50 works better for me than taurine without glutamine, which makes me feel more relaxed but totally unmotivated and depressed after a few days.Thanks for the glutamine tip. Glutamine also antagonizes glutamate.
> Taurine + tryptophan + glutamine + NATyrosine + cofactors works better, but have to get ratios right or end up too one way. Not perfect but better (doable).
>
> Any more on taurine??I still use it for acute treatment of stressed brain. I still love it.
> Thanks Laz
>
> Lops<grin>
> p.s. SJW now completely stopped working for some reason, despite trying to up dose.Any antidepressant can do that, I'm afraid.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 5, 2004, at 10:11:37
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » Larry Hoover, posted by KaraS on September 2, 2004, at 16:29:14
> Honestly, I think there was only one thing missing: in one of Simus' posts about the kind of food sensitivity test she had done. You said that there were good tests for this and not so good ones. She mentioned RASP and either ELISA or ERISA (I think it was the former). The ELISA/ERISA one I believe is what I had years ago. That's the good one, isn't it?
Food sensitivies/allergies are a huge conceptual quagmire. There is a lot of psuedoscience in there.
RAST can be very useful. It is a test of IgE response to allergens. For that, it works beautifully, but.....
a) it is most useful for inhallant allergens (e.g. pollens, spores)
b) it has a strong negative predictive utility (i.e. no RAST response is a pretty good indication that the body is not sensitized (90% utility on negative responses))
c) positive tests are merely suggestive. Only if a food history indicates a possible sensitivity, and the RAST is positive, should there be any clinical response (e.g. food elimination/rechallenge, or better yet double-blind food challenge (best done in the doctor's office, because if you have a serious response, it is an emergency)).ELISA is a test for IgG response. Everybody has IgG responses to food, and, in fact, IgG responses may be protective against IgE responses (which can be fatal). All formal allergy specialists (doctors with extra years of study in residency programs) dismiss ELISA as an unreliable measure, except when its results bolster the RAST, and food diaries.
See: http://www.tldp.com/issue/174/IgG%20Food%20Allergy.html
RAST itself is perhaps a "lazy man's" version of skin prick tests. But, even those can be unreliable, as most of the food extracts are not stable (they are perishable). Same goes for the RAST reagents. They are notoriously unstable. RAST *is* an excellent way to determine e.g. peanut, shellfish, wheat, etc. allergies, as most of the top allergens do have stable and reliable allergens to employ in the tests. It gets less reliable the more you move away from the most common allergens.
Moreover, even a negative test (via RAST or skin-prick) does not guarantee the absence of allergy, or cross-reactivity. Peanut allergy can show up as an allergic response to licorice. An allergy to birch pollen can make you react to apple skins, but only when the offending pollen is sensitizing you (i.e. only in the spring). It's a very messy and illogical environment.
The take-home message is that RAST (better) and ELISA (far less reliable) are starting points for investigations, not points from which conclusions can be reached.
You may get a lot out of perusing this site:
http://www.allergy-clinic.co.uk/food_allergy_testing.htm> P.S. How old are your two sons?
Alexander is 12 (but his voice is changing, and he's already acting teenage, and he is almost as big as me). Thomas is 10, and even he is over five feet and 105 lbs. The food bills are already outrageous. Thank god I love to cook.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 5, 2004, at 10:22:21
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » Larry Hoover, posted by Simus on September 3, 2004, at 0:10:58
> > I can't think of a single disorder where fish oils are contraindicated. If you can find such a reference, let me know, 'kay?
>
> It is because of the pyroluria condition. Dr. Edmond O`Flaherty has a very good Omega3 website http://www.omega3.20megsfree.com/whats_new.html where he included some of Dr. Walsh's work at the Pfeiffer clinic on pyrolurics. "We've had considerable success in using PUFA's (poly-unsaturated fatty acids) to treat persons with mental illness, but have found that omega-3 and omega-6 oils can cause clear worsening if given inappropriately. Pyrolurics need omega-6..... whereas most other patients need omega-3. There is a competition between o3 and o6 for zinc, B-6, and the delta 5,6 desaturases. The ideal would be to identify a person's biochemical individuality, with respect to PUFA's, then treat accordingly."I've only just begun to root out the truth within the theory, and it doesn't look good for Pfeiffer et al.
There are correlations between a sub-population of the mentally ill and nutritional status and pyrroles in urine. Correlation can be explained in four possible ways. A leads to B; B leads to A (identical correlation in both these cases); coincidence; or, both A and B are caused by an unmeasured entity (or entities) C (and D, etc.).
I am arriving at the conlusion that this latter case is the better explanation. Porphyria is a disorder of heme synthesis. Porphyrrins are essential protein-derived "shells" for the reactive metal ion in various molecules, such as chlorophyll, or hemoglobin. Porphyria has many variants, so it's hard to make generalizations, but one form is out-of-control synthesis of the pyrroles which are later turned into porphyrins. The excess pyrroles are dumped into urine by the kidneys. The pyrroles have numerous adverse effects, including psychosis and mood disturbance. Those adverse effects can be ameliorated by zinc and B6 supplements, in some cases. I believe that pyroluria (as a disorder) is an accidental re-discovery of porphyria, by someone who did not recognize its origin.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 5, 2004, at 10:27:02
In reply to Licorice, posted by Simus on September 3, 2004, at 23:47:55
> Kara and Larry,
>
> Well today around 6pm I FINALLY got up the courage to try the licorice after a couple of years. (I have become leary of taking anything since a few BAD reactions.) Well... At around 9pm I had a slice of pizza (late and not great supper). I wasn't feeling well, but I attributed it to waiting so long for supper. Within minutes I was running to the bathroom and my stomach violently returned my dinner. Then the diarrhea started. I was so miserable that I was contemplating going to the hospital. I called my family physician and told him I took licorice. He wasn't surprised with the reaction, and said that licorice is toxic to a lot of people. He told me to just ride it out for about 12-24 hours, and it will be out of my system and I will feel better (and to stick to liquids).
>
> I was just wondering if either of you have any thoughts on this.
>
> SimusOh, most certainly, I do.
Licorice is an accepted treatment for stomach upset. It is not known to cause it.
Licorice can be toxic, if you take it for months on end. It causes pseudo-aldosteronism.
I think there are two reasonable explanations for your experience.
1. Coincidence. You were going to be sick anyway.
2. Allergy. That is a possibility, but it would be exceedingly rare, and I'd have thought you'd know about that already, unless you seldom eat licorice.If you think you can bear the risk, try taking some on another day, with a meal.
Challenge/rechallenge is an accepted way to consider coincidence as a possible explanation.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 5, 2004, at 10:30:23
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » KaraS, posted by Simus on September 4, 2004, at 1:07:31
> I have noticed that I seem to have a yearly "symptom" cycle. Right around August I have had anxiety and just feel generally dizzy/nausious and yucky. Then around January I have had to deal with depression and low energy. I am wondering if the thyroid can fluctuate between a little too high and a little too low throughout the year.
Have you considered Seasonal Affective Disorder (the acronym SAD is very appropriate)?
It may be related to: light exposure, and thus melatonin synthesis in the pineal gland; vitamin D status (sunlight on skin is the major source of this vitamin); diet changes due to seasonal availability of foods.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 5, 2004, at 10:32:28
In reply to Re: I've lost track......... » Simus, posted by KaraS on September 4, 2004, at 13:53:38
> BTW, did you notice how excited Larry got about the article I posted for him? He was so funny.
<Spock eyebrow in extreme position>
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