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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by UniStoner on December 4, 2003, at 9:43:52
Hiya everyone. I have recently started taking Edronax for depression (4 mg twice daily) and was wondering if it would be safe to also take L-Tyrosine as well.
I ask because as I understand it, Tyrosine is a precursor not just for Dopamine, but for noradrenaline (norepinephrine) as well. It then crossed my mind, is it possible to get NA syndrome (assuming it even exists!) in the same way you might get 5ht Syndrome if you mixed 5htp and SSRI's?
Am I making any sense here? Better safe then sorry, I guess!
Posted by Pyewacket on December 5, 2003, at 14:03:46
In reply to L-Tyrosine Reboxetine (NARI) --- Dangerous?, posted by UniStoner on December 4, 2003, at 9:43:52
> Hiya everyone. I have recently started taking Edronax for depression (4 mg twice daily) and was wondering if it would be safe to also take L-Tyrosine as well.
>Welcome to the wonderful world of Edronax... Sorta. All meds have their own flaws.
I can't tell you whether it's safe to take L-Tyrosine with Edronax, I can only relate my own experiences. Make of them what you will.
When I was on Edronax, I took smaller-than-normal dosages. I started with half of what you're taking, which is (I believe) the accepted daily dose.
Occasionally I would use L-tyrosine along with the Edronax. This was not an every day routine for me, but rather a way to "boost" the effects of Edronax on any day when I was feeling particularly down.
The result? Edronax kicked in faster, providing quicker relief of any depression symptoms. I was quite pleased with that and sometimes supplemented with 5-HTP as well.
> I ask because as I understand it, Tyrosine is a precursor not just for Dopamine, but for noradrenaline (norepinephrine) as well. It then crossed my mind, is it possible to get NA syndrome (assuming it even exists!) in the same way you might get 5ht Syndrome if you mixed 5htp and SSRI's?
>I don't think it's possible to get an "NA syndrome" in the same way. I am highly sensitive to medications, including Edronax, and have (on occasion) unintentionally taken more Edronax than my body could handle. Side effects? Dizziness, light-headedness, sleepiness. It also changed my bloodflow, which resulted in unpleasantly swollen knees, oddly enough. I could not concentrate either.
So what of it? Well, since taking L-tyrosine with Edronax would put more NA in your system, you'd be more susceptible to side effects. Such side effects are a result of having the body overstimulated for too long a period of time.
While these side effects are probably not too harmful if experienced for only a day, I don't know the probable lasting effects of a prolonged "NA syndrome."
My advice? If your dosage of Edronax is CONSISTENTLY not working, talk with your doctor to change dosages or switch meds. If you have the occasional day when it just isn't working, taking small amounts of L-tyrosine only on those days probably wouldn't hurt. If you try this, start with small amounts of tyrosine and work your way up to avoid any of the aforementioned side effects.
In other words, I don't think it's a good idea to take both Edronax and L-tyrosine daily. Unless, of course, you're trying to wean yourself off of Edronax and onto L-tyrosine. That's a whole other thread entirely.
> Am I making any sense here? Better safe then sorry, I guess!
You make plenty of sense. Sorry I was so verbose, but I hope I helped in some way. Good luck!
Posted by UniStoner on December 5, 2003, at 23:57:28
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine Reboxetine (NARI) --- Dangerous?, posted by Pyewacket on December 5, 2003, at 14:03:46
Hi Pyewacket! Verbose is good. Well, its really too early for me to say for sure whether the Rebox is working or not, since Ive only been on it for 4 or 5 days. To be honest Im not loving it thusfar (unpleasent side effects), and dont yet feel any 'happier'. I'm curious as to what your thoughts are about this med. Is it helpful for you personally? I'm thinking I might go back on Zoloft, but at the same time I feel I should give R. a decent chance to kick in.
Posted by Pyewacket on December 6, 2003, at 6:07:47
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine Reboxetine (NARI) --- Dangerous?, posted by UniStoner on December 5, 2003, at 23:57:28
Sorry to hear about your unpleasant side effects; they tend to appear before the positive effects. Give them time if they're not dangerous. I had to deal with some of those at first, like the dizziness, orthostatic hypotension, etc. What kinds of problems are you having?
As for whether reboxetine helped me, definitely. And it's a good thing, too. After trying Celexa, Effexor, Wellbutrin (which my dad is on), and Prozac (which my sis is on), I was pretty tired of meds in general. I had some interesting reactions to them - difficulty breathing was one of the main ones.
I looked up lots of info, thought an NARI might help, and ordered Edronax from overseas. It cost a lot of money since it's not available by prescription in the US. Luckily for me, Edronax actually worked. I didn't get any of my typical allergy-like reactions to it until about a year after I started it, and by then I was ready to taper off the dose and go completely on supplements. Before that, there were minimal side effects for me. My experience with Edronax was good, and I cursed the FDA for not approving it. Drug company politics, I figure.
FYI, the only things I'm on now are amino acids. I take L-tyrosine and SAM-e in the morning, and 5-HTP at night. They work fine, but it did take a long time to "experiment" and find what doses in what combinations worked for me. Also, I have learned that I may well have an adrenal insufficiency (still need more blood tests), so that may have been one cause of my depression and the reason Edronax worked so well for me.
I've never been on Zoloft, so frankly I don't have the experience necessary to discuss it with you. All I can say is, do whatever works best for you with minimal side effects.
Posted by Francesco on December 6, 2003, at 8:34:55
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine Reboxetine (NARI) --- Dangerous?, posted by Pyewacket on December 6, 2003, at 6:07:47
I'm planning to try Reboxetine in the future. Did you experience sexual side effects on it ? Many people complain about impotence. Thanks
Posted by Pyewacket on December 6, 2003, at 14:49:07
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine Reboxetine (NARI) --- Dangerous? » Pyewacket, posted by Francesco on December 6, 2003, at 8:34:55
> I'm planning to try Reboxetine in the future. Did you experience sexual side effects on it ? Many people complain about impotence. Thanks
Sure, I had sexual side effects of a sort - my libido actually increased. I'm not going to complain about that, though.
Posted by UniStoner on December 6, 2003, at 22:05:51
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine Reboxetine (NARI) --- Dangerous? » Francesco , posted by Pyewacket on December 6, 2003, at 14:49:07
> > I'm planning to try Reboxetine in the future. Did you experience sexual side effects on it ? Many people complain about impotence. Thanks
>
> Sure, I had sexual side effects of a sort - my libido actually increased. I'm not going to complain about that, though.Well at the moment my side effects are constipation (which is apparently quite common on Rebox), I tend to reach orgasm a lot more quickly, and it doesnt feel as good as it did before I started on this med. However, we'll see how things go in a week or so - the side effects are getting slightly more tolerable.
Posted by Pyewacket on December 7, 2003, at 15:07:44
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine Reboxetine (NARI) --- Dangerous?, posted by UniStoner on December 6, 2003, at 22:05:51
With the short length of time you've been on Reboxetine, it really is worthwhile to wait a little longer for the side effects to lessen. I assure you that they will probably improve over the next few weeks.
Since I'm female, I can't identify with all your problems. Sorry. Eat more insoluble fiber and just take things very slowly in bed, I suppose.
Posted by UniStoner on December 7, 2003, at 21:48:46
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine Reboxetine (NARI) --- Dangerous? » UniStoner, posted by Pyewacket on December 7, 2003, at 15:07:44
Hey Pye - the side effects are still present, but certainly not as bad as they were to begin with. In hindsight, this seems to be the general theme of my posts recently! As you said, they will probably diminish even more in the coming days. I'm optimmistic but still cant yet say whether I will keep taking said medication - I think I'll know for sure if I can deal with it or not by this time next week.
I do also feel a fair bit better - whether this is from the med or not I cant say for sure. I suspect it is. Will keep you posted, and (to get back to my original intention) will let you know how the Tyrosine combo goes.
Thanks for the words of encouragment :)
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 8, 2003, at 8:05:40
In reply to L-Tyrosine Reboxetine (NARI) --- Dangerous?, posted by UniStoner on December 4, 2003, at 9:43:52
Posted by CraigD on December 10, 2003, at 21:43:14
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine Reboxetine (NARI) --- Dangerous?, posted by UniStoner on December 7, 2003, at 21:48:46
If you think NE deficiency is at the root of your depression, than desipramine might be an option for you if Rebox. doesn't work. It's a more powerful inhibitor from what I've read.
I found it made me way sadder than I was before. I'm a seration type, I'm finding out
Posted by Francesco on December 11, 2003, at 14:11:47
In reply to Re: L-Tyrosine Reboxetine (NARI) --- Dangerous?, posted by Pyewacket on December 6, 2003, at 6:07:47
> FYI, the only things I'm on now are amino acids. I take L-tyrosine and SAM-e in the morning, and 5-HTP at night.How did you get to chose those supplements ? Why 5-htp rather than triptophan ?
Posted by Pyewacket on December 11, 2003, at 20:39:40
In reply to supplements » Pyewacket, posted by Francesco on December 11, 2003, at 14:11:47
> How did you get to chose those supplements ? Why 5-htp rather than triptophan ?
I chose L-tyrosine because it is a precursor to norepinephrine/adrenaline (among other things). I was already taking Edronax, an NARI, so the switch to L-tyrosine was to replace Edronax.
SAM-e was the last supplement I started taking. I started taking it after seeing it in a health supplement store and decided it sounded interesting. Actually, the mechanisms that make SAM-e an antidepressant are not especially well understood, but its role as a methyl donor is probably related to its antidepressant effect. It works for me. I would warn bipolar people against using it since it initially gave me a feeling of hypomania.
As for 5-HTP vs. L-tryptophan, 5-HTP is a direct precursor to serotonin. That is all it is used for in the body, and so it is far more efficient than L-tryptophan in terms of producing serotonin. Also, sometimes L-tryptophan was (is?) made using bacterial fermentation. The 5-HTP I take is plant derived, and I think that probably reduces the risk of contamination.
I chose 5-HTP to make me feel less depressed and lonely, and to help me get a good night's sleep. It certainly does that! As an added bonus, it suppresses my appetite ever so slightly.
Posted by francesco on December 12, 2003, at 4:45:58
In reply to Re: supplements » Francesco , posted by Pyewacket on December 11, 2003, at 20:39:40
Your schedule seem really interesting to me.
How much sam-e,tyrosine and 5-htp do you take ?
I tried sam-e once and made me hypomaniac too. So I quit it because I am suspected to have (slight) bipolar issues. At the moment I'm on a mood-stabilizer so maybe I will give it another shot. Does 5-htp and tyrosine interfer in some way ? I have been explained that triptophan and tyrosine can. I like tyrosine even if it sometimes makes me a little 'mean'. Thanks for sharing !
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