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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JLx on November 29, 2003, at 9:52:48
I was just reading this site: http://www.beatcfsandfms.org/html/NaStrategy.html#tyrosine and wonder what to make of the info on it.
"Long term use of L-Tyrosine and/or Phenylalanine is not recommended, since these items can increase the risk of skin cancer (Melanoma) if used regularly and in high doses. If you have many moles, then you are at increased risk of Melanoma, and should probably cool it with L-Tyrosine/Phenylalanine. Another item that increases Melanoma risk is Sulfites. These increase Tyrosine by inhibiting Tyrosinase. Increased ACTH also increases Melanoma risk, since it upregulates Melanin Stimulating Hormone (MSH), which simulates Melanoma growth.
If you do take L-Tyrosine/Phenylalanine regularly because you need a little boost, it is recommended that you count the number of moles on your body (e.g. stomach area) and place this data in your notebook, and update at 1 to 3mth intervals. If you see your mole count go up, you should consider cooling it with the L-Tyrosine/Phenylalanine. Things that decrease Tyrosine, and therefore decrease Melanoma risk, are P5P, vitamin E, vitamin C, and low dose NAC (e.g. 50 to 300mg/day)."
That last comment confuses me. I thought that taking P5P WITH tyrosine was the thing to do to for one thing.
And what about the melanoma risk? This particularly concerns me because I have a skin condition that has changed in the past few months since I've been taking tyrosine....but also newly taking other things as well, so it's hard to pinpoint what may have caused it.
About 3-5 years ago I first noticed a new tan mole-like irregularly shaped thing on my upper breast in the cleavage area. According to a dermatology site I checked, "plaque" is the closest description of it as it's somewhat raised, but flat on top like larger moles are. It's grown a bit -- started out about half the size of a pencil eraser and now is a little larger than that, but not quite as big as a dime -- and then another one showed up next to it, smaller, about the size the first one was intially. And a few smaller yet on the other breast. In the past few months, since my recent supplementation regimen they've gotten itchy, especially the oldest/biggest one which now also has an elevated pink area to one side. This is the itchy area, I think. (It's never been itchy before.) For a couple weeks there, it also turned darker brown and had small red dots on it. This is when I freaked and checked it out as best I could on dermatology sites. The darker brown is characteristic of melanoma, but it didn't look quite like the pics I saw. And now it is gone back to tan and the red dots are gone. It's somewhat less itchy also.
That the new smaller ones are on the other breast, and this is a moist area in general, I've wondered if this is some kind of fungus or something that is aggravated by skin from one side rubbing on the other.
Of course, I know the sensible thing to do is go to a dermatologist but that would cost about $100 for just the initial visit alone. :( And then if a biopsy was required, excision, etc, we're talking more hundreds of dollars... that I don't have.
The location is a little lower than was ever exposed much to sun, so sun-related cancer seems less likely but cancer can't be ruled out just by that alone. If it's melanoma, which is supposed to be fast growing, it seems like the years that have already passed would somewhat rule it out.
I thought it was encouraging that the color has gone back to tan and the red dots disappeared. But, otoh, there's a lot of symptoms there that match the melanoma advisory info: http://www.plwc.org/plwc/MainConstructor/1,1744,_04-0046-00_12-001043-00_18-0026079,00.asp
(Sigh)
JL
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 29, 2003, at 12:31:25
In reply to Tyrosine, long term use... Larry, please advise..., posted by JLx on November 29, 2003, at 9:52:48
> I was just reading this site: http://www.beatcfsandfms.org/html/NaStrategy.html#tyrosine and wonder what to make of the info on it.
>
> "Long term use of L-Tyrosine and/or Phenylalanine is not recommended, since these items can increase the risk of skin cancer (Melanoma) if used regularly and in high doses.That's incorrect. Two molecules of tyrosine are required for the synthesis of each molecule of melanin, but tyrosine supply does not induce melanoma (cancer of the cells which produce melanain in the skin). I see this kind of misreading of science all the time, unfortunately. Oxygen is also required to produce melanin, but I don't see anyone suggesting you quit breathing.
> If you have many moles, then you are at increased risk of Melanoma, and should probably cool it with L-Tyrosine/Phenylalanine.
The risk comes from the moles, not the tyrosine or phenylalanine.
> Another item that increases Melanoma risk is Sulfites. These increase Tyrosine by inhibiting Tyrosinase. Increased ACTH also increases Melanoma risk, since it upregulates Melanin Stimulating Hormone (MSH), which simulates Melanoma growth.
If, and only if, the aberrant cell growth has already begun. The rate of growth of existing cancer is enhanced, but you don't get cancer from tyrosine.
> If you do take L-Tyrosine/Phenylalanine regularly because you need a little boost, it is recommended that you count the number of moles on your body (e.g. stomach area) and place this data in your notebook, and update at 1 to 3mth intervals. If you see your mole count go up, you should consider cooling it with the L-Tyrosine/Phenylalanine.
No, if your mole count goes up, you should see a doctor. ASAP. Anyone with moles should have a mole logbook of some sort, noting number, size, and location.
> Things that decrease Tyrosine, and therefore decrease Melanoma risk, are P5P, vitamin E, vitamin C, and low dose NAC (e.g. 50 to 300mg/day)."
>
> That last comment confuses me. I thought that taking P5P WITH tyrosine was the thing to do to for one thing.It is.
> And what about the melanoma risk? This particularly concerns me because I have a skin condition that has changed in the past few months since I've been taking tyrosine....but also newly taking other things as well, so it's hard to pinpoint what may have caused it.
Sun exposure, twenty years ago. Seriously.
> About 3-5 years ago I first noticed a new tan mole-like irregularly shaped thing on my upper breast in the cleavage area. According to a dermatology site I checked, "plaque" is the closest description of it as it's somewhat raised, but flat on top like larger moles are. It's grown a bit -- started out about half the size of a pencil eraser and now is a little larger than that, but not quite as big as a dime -- and then another one showed up next to it, smaller, about the size the first one was intially. And a few smaller yet on the other breast. In the past few months, since my recent supplementation regimen they've gotten itchy, especially the oldest/biggest one which now also has an elevated pink area to one side. This is the itchy area, I think. (It's never been itchy before.) For a couple weeks there, it also turned darker brown and had small red dots on it. This is when I freaked and checked it out as best I could on dermatology sites. The darker brown is characteristic of melanoma, but it didn't look quite like the pics I saw. And now it is gone back to tan and the red dots are gone. It's somewhat less itchy also.
Sounds like actinic keratoses. It has a highly variable appearance. Pictures:http://www.aks.org/diagnosis.html
http://matrix.ucdavis.edu/tumors/tradition/ak-gallery.html
There are three types of skin cancer, depending upon the type of cell that has begun to grow too quickly. The deadliest is melanoma. It can be very aggressive. Much more common are squamous cell and basal cell carninomas.
Actinic keratoses (AK) are actually Stage 1 squamous cell carninoma. The American Dermatological Association officially declared that actinic kerotosis no longer exists as a diagnosis, as of 2001. In an intensive study of biopsy samples from AK lesions, nearly 100% contained malignancy, and their assumption was that they merely missed the cancer in the few exceptions. Squamous cell carcinoma is readily treated if treated in time. It grow slowly.
Basal cell carcinoma is rarely fatal.
> That the new smaller ones are on the other breast, and this is a moist area in general, I've wondered if this is some kind of fungus or something that is aggravated by skin from one side rubbing on the other.
I have many AK lesions myself. Many are on fully sun-exposed regions of skin, but not all of them. I have some near the border between clothing-protected and exposed areas.
> Of course, I know the sensible thing to do is go to a dermatologist but that would cost about $100 for just the initial visit alone. :(
Regular doctors can diagnose this. Is your life worth $100? I don't mean to be dramatic, but I mean to be dramatic.
> And then if a biopsy was required, excision, etc, we're talking more hundreds of dollars... that I don't have.
My doctor swabs them with liquid nitrogen. There are options (I hope), that are not out of your reach.
> The location is a little lower than was ever exposed much to sun, so sun-related cancer seems less likely but cancer can't be ruled out just by that alone.
Correct.
> If it's melanoma, which is supposed to be fast growing, it seems like the years that have already passed would somewhat rule it out.
Probably. AK's grow slowly, but can have rapid bursts.
> I thought it was encouraging that the color has gone back to tan and the red dots disappeared.I've had that kind of thing happen.
> But, otoh, there's a lot of symptoms there that match the melanoma advisory info: http://www.plwc.org/plwc/MainConstructor/1,1744,_04-0046-00_12-001043-00_18-0026079,00.asp
>
> (Sigh)
>
> JLI really hope you see a doctor, for peace of mind. A charity clinic, county hospital, something. I'm a Canuck. I just flash my card....I don't know what it's like to not be permitted health care for financial reasons.
If you need to talk this out....I'm here.
Lar
Posted by JLx on November 29, 2003, at 17:50:13
In reply to Re: skin lesions » JLx, posted by Larry Hoover on November 29, 2003, at 12:31:25
> > I was just reading this site: http://www.beatcfsandfms.org/html/NaStrategy.html#tyrosine and wonder what to make of the info on it.
> >
> > "Long term use of L-Tyrosine and/or Phenylalanine is not recommended, since these items can increase the risk of skin cancer (Melanoma) if used regularly and in high doses.
>
> That's incorrect. Two molecules of tyrosine are required for the synthesis of each molecule of melanin, but tyrosine supply does not induce melanoma (cancer of the cells which produce melanain in the skin). I see this kind of misreading of science all the time, unfortunately. Oxygen is also required to produce melanin, but I don't see anyone suggesting you quit breathing.Well, that relieves my mind considerably. I would have been really ticked off and disappointed if something that enables me to be less depressed and more functional was also hastening my demise. :)
> > That last comment confuses me. I thought that taking P5P WITH tyrosine was the thing to do to for one thing.
>
> It is.Well, I guess I won't bother reading too much more of that site then!
> > And what about the melanoma risk? This particularly concerns me because I have a skin condition that has changed in the past few months since I've been taking tyrosine....but also newly taking other things as well, so it's hard to pinpoint what may have caused it.
>
> Sun exposure, twenty years ago. Seriously.Yes, I know. I probably did burn this area when I was a young teen.
> Sounds like actinic keratoses. It has a highly variable appearance. Pictures:
>
> http://www.aks.org/diagnosis.html
>
> http://matrix.ucdavis.edu/tumors/tradition/ak-gallery.htmlIt does look like one of those pictures.
> > Of course, I know the sensible thing to do is go to a dermatologist but that would cost about $100 for just the initial visit alone. :(
>
> Regular doctors can diagnose this. Is your life worth $100? I don't mean to be dramatic, but I mean to be dramatic.> My doctor swabs them with liquid nitrogen. There are options (I hope), that are not out of your reach.
You'd probably be shocked at how much that sort of thing actually costs if you had to pay for it.
> > If it's melanoma, which is supposed to be fast growing, it seems like the years that have already passed would somewhat rule it out.
>
> Probably. AK's grow slowly, but can have rapid bursts.Ok. Well, it was the changes and the tyrosine comment on that site that had me more worried, so that's good to know.
> I really hope you see a doctor, for peace of mind. A charity clinic, county hospital, something. I'm a Canuck. I just flash my card....I don't know what it's like to not be permitted health care for financial reasons.
I'll think about it, but so far my experience at being poor in my state is not very encouraging as to services. It's been a low level worry for some time now so I can handle that. It was the changes and now this comment about tyrosine that threw me.
> If you need to talk this out....I'm here.
>
> LarThanks, Larry. You've already been a big help....as usual. :) I was afraid you might tell me to quit taking the tyrosine, so this is good.
JL
Posted by stjames on November 29, 2003, at 19:00:10
In reply to Re: skin lesions » JLx, posted by Larry Hoover on November 29, 2003, at 12:31:25
> And then if a biopsy was required, excision, etc, we're talking more hundreds of dollars... that I don't have.
Slice biopsy is not that expensive. Other options are cheaper. I've had lots of moles removed. I just lost a friend to skin cancer, as he ignored a growth for a decade. I think you should not be saying "I can't afford this", but instead figuring out a way for you to afford to get checked out.
Posted by tealady on November 29, 2003, at 23:41:32
In reply to Re: skin lesions » Larry Hoover, posted by JLx on November 29, 2003, at 17:50:13
Hi,
I'm in the process of buring off my first ever skin cancer.
I did have a mole cut out previously, the doc was over enthusiastic...the mole was fine, it had just grown some and he wanted to be sure.. Being a tad hypoadrenal though. I got a huge ugly dark brown scar with the individual stitches showing from it. The scar cleared up when I supplemented on cortisol last year...after many years of having it.
This one is on my cheek. I just went to the GP for both...nop specialist..even for the cuttingout of the mole...
This time I'm just using a cream which burns it off...Fluorouracil cream (Efudix). You apply for 3 weeks ..it burns it ..and then wait 4 weeks as it sloughs off..which it seems to be doing.
Queensland is the world capital for skin cancer.<g>
So..GO TO the DOCS!!!!!
He may say its OK, or you may get away with the cream. The cream cost me $49.50 AUD..so about $30 US I assume?
Jan
Posted by JLx on December 1, 2003, at 7:56:42
In reply to Re: skin lesions » JLx, posted by tealady on November 29, 2003, at 23:41:32
> This time I'm just using a cream which burns it off...Fluorouracil cream (Efudix). You apply for 3 weeks ..it burns it ..and then wait 4 weeks as it sloughs off..which it seems to be doing.
> Queensland is the world capital for skin cancer.<g>
> So..GO TO the DOCS!!!!!
> He may say its OK, or you may get away with the cream. The cream cost me $49.50 AUD..so about $30 US I assume?
> JanThanks, it's good to know there's a cream.
Ever heard of this product and this guy? http://funandsun.com/1tocf/beauty/ski.html, http://www.curacel.com.au/ProdDev.htm
Just curious.
Posted by tealady on December 2, 2003, at 3:45:05
In reply to Re: skin lesions » tealady, posted by JLx on December 1, 2003, at 7:56:42
> > This time I'm just using a cream which burns it off...Fluorouracil cream (Efudix). You apply for 3 weeks ..it burns it ..and then wait 4 weeks as it sloughs off..which it seems to be doing.
> > Queensland is the world capital for skin cancer.<g>
> > So..GO TO the DOCS!!!!!
> > He may say its OK, or you may get away with the cream. The cream cost me $49.50 AUD..so about $30 US I assume?
> > Jan
>
> Thanks, it's good to know there's a cream.
>
> Ever heard of this product and this guy? http://funandsun.com/1tocf/beauty/ski.html, http://www.curacel.com.au/ProdDev.htm
>
> Just curious.
>
I hadn't but I phoned my Mum and she has. It's been around for a while but she doesn't use it or know anyone who does either. They get theirs just burnt off free on Medicare when they go to the docs, so it saves them buying a cream.
The devil's apple is a weed that is a curse to my brother as it grows all over his farm..prickly fruit with round yellow/green apple size, like a puff ball in shape but spiky. It attracts swarms of butterflies.Thanks for the site.
Looks like he is saying they use mucopolysaccharide as as an emulsifier? Lar? (if you're reading this is that right?)
I do agree about the skin creams in Oz not penetrating..they're useless. I make up my own..but so far I've just used a spoon of commercial body butter as an emulsifier...I wouldn't mind not using that although its mostly coconut oil and shea butter.
Better get on topic...let's see. I make up creams with oils..like EPO, coconut oil, VitE, jojoba, apricot, almond etc. and aloe vera,shea butter, glycerin and then add stuff like tyrosine, ascorbic acid sometimes...still experimenting.
So far I'm haven't looked for a good emulsifier.
I phoned a company today that sells some but they don't know about that one.
(We did have a long chat about the cream I'm using for burning off skin cancers though as her husband is using it too..he's up to the burning red stage)
They've got an emulsifier that is a mixture of cetyl alcohol, sodium sterylactilite? (I think they said<g>), and glycerin stearate? ..all vege sourced..but I'm uncertain about how penetrating they would allow the cream to be. I'm going to get a free samples to play with, I hope.
I know the usual beeswax and macadaemia nut wax sits sits on surface...and the commercial products use mostly petrochemical based.Jan
Posted by tealady on December 2, 2003, at 5:26:05
In reply to Re: skin lesions » tealady, posted by JLx on December 1, 2003, at 7:56:42
Correction: the milkweed attracts the butterflies
I got some results back today. Most things normal. EEG showed I fell asleep when asked to relax, as expected from what the girl said I was doing who ran the test. She said noone else she has tested has done this.
The neurologist doesn't know what this means, just suggested a sleep study and said it wasn't epilepsy. Whatever it is, I think NADH helps me stay awake...although I can't fully relax still. I feel tense in the sides of my head..which is what the EEG showed. If I relax, I fall asleep.My brother suggested I take a Xanax<g>. Perhaps I should try it, I used to take Valium occasionally.
Jan
Posted by JLx on December 2, 2003, at 10:33:22
In reply to Re: skin lesions » JLx, posted by tealady on December 2, 2003, at 3:45:05
> > Ever heard of this product and this guy? http://funandsun.com/1tocf/beauty/ski.html, http://www.curacel.com.au/ProdDev.htm
> >
> > Just curious.
> >
> I hadn't but I phoned my Mum and she has. It's been around for a while but she doesn't use it or know anyone who does either. They get theirs just burnt off free on Medicare when they go to the docs, so it saves them buying a cream.It would have been interesting to see how popular it would have been if it had remained OTC.
> The devil's apple is a weed that is a curse to my brother as it grows all over his farm..prickly fruit with round yellow/green apple size, like a puff ball in shape but spiky. It attracts swarms of butterflies.
I don't know if is was on that site or another, but I read that farmers have been using it on skin lesions on their animals for many years.
> Looks like he is saying they use mucopolysaccharide as as an emulsifier? Lar? (if you're reading this is that right?)
> I do agree about the skin creams in Oz not penetrating..they're useless. I make up my own..but so far I've just used a spoon of commercial body butter as an emulsifier...I wouldn't mind not using that although its mostly coconut oil and shea butter.
> Better get on topic...let's see. I make up creams with oils..like EPO, coconut oil, VitE, jojoba, apricot, almond etc. and aloe vera,shea butter, glycerin and then add stuff like tyrosine, ascorbic acid sometimes...still experimenting.
> So far I'm haven't looked for a good emulsifier.
> I phoned a company today that sells some but they don't know about that one.
> (We did have a long chat about the cream I'm using for burning off skin cancers though as her husband is using it too..he's up to the burning red stage)
> They've got an emulsifier that is a mixture of cetyl alcohol, sodium sterylactilite? (I think they said<g>), and glycerin stearate? ..all vege sourced..but I'm uncertain about how penetrating they would allow the cream to be. I'm going to get a free samples to play with, I hope.
> I know the usual beeswax and macadaemia nut wax sits sits on surface...and the commercial products use mostly petrochemical based.I developed rosacea in my late thirties, and have tried various things for that. None of them helped; my face was just varying degrees of redness and burning-itchiness on my cheeks. But now, since magnesium and especially my latest regimen, it looks pretty good most of the time. It's definitely stress/depression related still though, as I get extra redness under stress and when my mood goes down. (Like a job interview unfortunately.) I expect it is also related to hormones.
If I had the extra bucks, I would probably try this product: http://bioskincare.com/ It has a money back guarantee...which when you read the fine print says you're still out the shipping fee and a $9 processing fee, but still they're making the effort. I am so sick of buying stuff that doesn't work at all, that I would be glad to have any amount of my purchase price back.
I am thinking of trying something from this site for my skin spots. http://www.topicalinfo.org/Treatment.htmk Interesting comment about pancreatic enzymes fighting cancer. I read that somewhere else too.
Here's something you might find interesting: Topical Tea May Reduce Skin Cancer Risk
http://www.naturalproductsinsider.com/hotnews/39h1014248.htmlThis is interesting too: http://www.no-moles.com/how%20it%20works.htm I have some skin tags I could use it on if not my other spots. Usually now I hema-clip them for 15 minutes, the cut them off. (I read about this on a doctor's site and thought I can sure do this myself!) It works good, but is harder to do when they're really small.
Posted by JLx on December 2, 2003, at 10:38:31
In reply to Results » JLx, posted by tealady on December 2, 2003, at 5:26:05
> I got some results back today. Most things normal.Well, that's good! :)
>EEG showed I fell asleep when asked to relax, as expected from what the girl said I was doing who ran the test. She said noone else she has tested has done this.
Hmm...and I'm sure you've already had your blood sugar and other obvious stuff checked.
> The neurologist doesn't know what this means, just suggested a sleep study and said it wasn't epilepsy. Whatever it is, I think NADH helps me stay awake...although I can't fully relax still. I feel tense in the sides of my head..which is what the EEG showed. If I relax, I fall asleep.
I'd really like to try NADH the more I read about it. Some day. :)
This is the end of the thread.
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