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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by EscherDementian on October 12, 2003, at 0:56:14
What can anyone tell me about the psych effects of toxic molds- specifically in the Pacific Northwest?
What tests do i need to ask for specifically to find out if i am affected?
Thanx,
Escher
Posted by taylor18 on October 12, 2003, at 2:16:04
In reply to Toxic Molds, posted by EscherDementian on October 12, 2003, at 0:56:14
I was considering moving to Port Townsend, WA; I'd like to know more about these neuro-toxic, region-specific molds.
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 12, 2003, at 7:16:51
In reply to Toxic Molds, posted by EscherDementian on October 12, 2003, at 0:56:14
> What can anyone tell me about the psych effects of toxic molds- specifically in the Pacific Northwest?
Because mold spores are free to move with the wind, you'll generally find that mold species are similar everywhere people live. There are local factors which permit niche colonies, too, but I don't know about that part, vis a vis the Northwest. Anyway, given the dampness over there, I'd expect molds to be a significant influence on well-being for some people. I've got some links on my other 'puter....I'll have to come back to that later. There are mood links to mold species, but I don't have that info at hand.
> What tests do i need to ask for specifically to find out if i am affected?
Generally, an environment (e.g. a particular home) is tested for mold contamination with a special air filtration system. The results are expressed as spores per cubic meter of a particular species, and health impacts are related to both exposure level and species.
Such testing costs a few hundred bucks. Remediation can be very expensive. And there are hucksters (fear-mongers) out there, too. Wherever there's a lot of money (potentially), ya know?
> Thanx,
> EscherWelcome,
Lar
Posted by BekkaH on October 12, 2003, at 7:51:20
In reply to Re: Toxic Molds » EscherDementian, posted by Larry Hoover on October 12, 2003, at 7:16:51
I think this problem must be much more widespread this year. Both the Northeast and Midwest have had record-setting rainfall and humidity this past year, and if the "FARMER'S ALMANAC" is correct (and apparently it is, 80% of the time), next year will be just as soggy.
Posted by EscherDementian on October 13, 2003, at 3:14:33
In reply to Re: Toxic Molds » EscherDementian, posted by Larry Hoover on October 12, 2003, at 7:16:51
I ask for these reasons~
i moved into my home 8 1/2 years ago. It's a charming cottage in the forest near a lake, but built in 1919.<--That's the original, there has been a bit added on and 'fixer-up' stuff that i have taken on. One of the things that i have been challenged by is mold in the bathroom central in the house. i mean, CENTRAL. To look at the blueprints, it- and a very old fireplace- are in the center, back-to-back. Replacing drywall that had mold "blossoms" and painting has been ineffective. It IS older plumbing, and has had fractional leaks into the rough basement downstairs where the furnace and blowers to the vents throughout the house are located. There is mold there, and some dryrot, which has led me to the descision that the whole bathroom and floor, etc.etc. need to be torn out and remodeled.
Each time i ask about "toxic mold", repairmen look at their boots and shuffle, then change the subject. Okay, Okay...Reason #2--
My symptoms of depression and fatigue and mental "discombobulation" seem to have resparked and cumulatively increased in the few years that i have been here. Finally seeking chemical help because my therapy wasn't accomplishing as it should... (granted, i've had some logical reasons to feel need of assistance)... it's been observed that there is a dramatic change in my mental and emotional processes, just getting out of my home. This CAN be attributed purely to psych. reasons, and it can also be explored in terms of unknown physical influences, IMHO. At least, that's something i've been wondering about. At this point, i'm very intent on discovering the sources i need to address in this territory of distress.SOooooo, can you give me some specific directions to look into? Some psych info. to start with? i'd be greatly indebt to you. Researching for myself on this vast internet had me drowning in information overload.
Thank You in advance, hopefully,
Escher
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 13, 2003, at 9:35:19
In reply to Re: Toxic Molds » Larry Hoover, posted by EscherDementian on October 13, 2003, at 3:14:33
> I ask for these reasons~
>
> i moved into my home 8 1/2 years ago. It's a charming cottage in the forest near a lake, but built in 1919.<--That's the original, there has been a bit added on and 'fixer-up' stuff that i have taken on. One of the things that i have been challenged by is mold in the bathroom central in the house. i mean, CENTRAL. To look at the blueprints, it- and a very old fireplace- are in the center, back-to-back. Replacing drywall that had mold "blossoms" and painting has been ineffective. It IS older plumbing, and has had fractional leaks into the rough basement downstairs where the furnace and blowers to the vents throughout the house are located. There is mold there, and some dryrot, which has led me to the descision that the whole bathroom and floor, etc.etc. need to be torn out and remodeled.
> Each time i ask about "toxic mold", repairmen look at their boots and shuffle, then change the subject. Okay, Okay...I strongly suggest that you spend some time at this site, checking out the various links:
http://www.asse.org/mold-debate.htm
If you suspect a particular genus of contamination (there are identifying clues offered), you can do a search on that genus and the keyword mycotoxin. That will bring you to really specific information.
Here's sort of a starter article on the topic of indoor air quality and mycotoxin exposure:
http://www.asse.org/mold-0802albright.pdf> Reason #2--
> My symptoms of depression and fatigue and mental "discombobulation" seem to have resparked and cumulatively increased in the few years that i have been here. Finally seeking chemical help because my therapy wasn't accomplishing as it should... (granted, i've had some logical reasons to feel need of assistance)... it's been observed that there is a dramatic change in my mental and emotional processes, just getting out of my home.That is very consistent with mold/mycotoxin exposure. In fact, it's part of the diagnosis.
> This CAN be attributed purely to psych. reasons, and it can also be explored in terms of unknown physical influences, IMHO. At least, that's something i've been wondering about. At this point, i'm very intent on discovering the sources i need to address in this territory of distress.
Your home could be *why* you have mood problems. Period.
> SOooooo, can you give me some specific directions to look into? Some psych info. to start with? i'd be greatly indebt to you. Researching for myself on this vast internet had me drowning in information overload.
Start from the link I provided above. It has further links to very reliable and conservative information. If you have any further questions, I'd be happy to oblige.
> Thank You in advance, hopefully,
> EscherYou're welcome. I hope you're ready for the information, ya know? You might be looking at some very serious changes in your life.
Lar
Posted by EscherDementian on October 14, 2003, at 8:03:37
In reply to Re: Toxic Molds » EscherDementian, posted by Larry Hoover on October 13, 2003, at 9:35:19
Thank you.
I am infinitely grateful. i will begin reading (or printing) immediately, and hope you don't mind if i ask you another Q if i get to a snag?OK, i hear you~ I'm preparing to "batten down my hatches" for major changes if need be-- it's not like my life isn't used to upheaval adventures by now.
I did fall in love with the cottage for it's history and 'antique soul', however lately i've casually joked (!) about bulldozing and building anew & holiday in an arrid dry place during.
Intuition?I 'spose i'll find out what medical hoops i may be facing. Or what can be salvaged (stained glass?).
Infinite thanx,
Escher
Posted by tealady on October 14, 2003, at 16:42:50
In reply to Re: Toxic Molds » Larry Hoover, posted by EscherDementian on October 13, 2003, at 3:14:33
Escher,
Is there a fireplace in the middle of the house still? and do you use it? I just find hat fires help keep out the damp/mould etc.
Jan
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 20, 2003, at 14:47:55
In reply to Thank You » Larry Hoover, posted by EscherDementian on October 14, 2003, at 8:03:37
> Thank you.
> I am infinitely grateful. i will begin reading (or printing) immediately, and hope you don't mind if i ask you another Q if i get to a snag?
>
> OK, i hear you~ I'm preparing to "batten down my hatches" for major changes if need be-- it's not like my life isn't used to upheaval adventures by now.
> I did fall in love with the cottage for it's history and 'antique soul', however lately i've casually joked (!) about bulldozing and building anew & holiday in an arrid dry place during.
> Intuition?
>
> I 'spose i'll find out what medical hoops i may be facing. Or what can be salvaged (stained glass?).
>
> Infinite thanx,
> EscherI hope you're not in "information overload". How are you doing?
Lar
Posted by tealady on November 6, 2003, at 17:27:28
In reply to Thank You » Larry Hoover, posted by EscherDementian on October 14, 2003, at 8:03:37
Escher,
Hi. Wondering how you went with your house
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031003/msgs/269385.html
Jan
Posted by EscherDementian on November 7, 2003, at 12:15:11
In reply to Re: Thank You » EscherDementian, posted by tealady on November 6, 2003, at 17:27:28
Thank you for asking, and your interest :)
Gah! What a production just to get to the right agency and then get them out here to inspect!
Still no conclusions. Am still working on above task. On my good days ;)
Still exploring other possibilities, too. (i'm even hopeful for a ghostly entity, LOL, then i wouldn't have to tear the place apart.. )
Yes, Lar, i was a little bit (still) overwhelmed in info overload... had to redirect my energy and take a break, the frustration exhaustion was heavy.
Have returned from an extended visit away from home, and there is a DRAMATIC difference in my physical and mental wellbeing when i am out of this house... *deep sigh*
It's hard to know how much of my subjective wellbeing is attributed to what. My pdoc is rather traditional psychiatry oriented, and wouldn't really consider mold with much weight.
My primary care MD isn't easily convinced to order this kind of specialized testing (i suspect it's expensive to the HMO?) and reasonably, i admit, reminds me of various other health reasons why i might be feeling the way i do...So in conclusion, there is no conclusion- YET. This process is taking a slow boat down alot of canals. But i really appreciate your interest and assistances. Makes me feel like maybe i'm not standing up in the boat alone ~ Thanx :)
Will keep you posted,
Escherp.s.
The central fireplace has a wood-burning-stove inplace. But removing it and replacing the bricks & facade with intent to have a functional fireplace again is in my plans. The chimney has been serviced just last month and is now in perfect condition. Much more than the w-b-s, a real fireplace fire WOULD generate more heat through that central part. Thanx, tealady :)
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 10, 2003, at 7:11:07
In reply to Toxic Mold, Lar and Tealady (and Me), posted by EscherDementian on November 7, 2003, at 12:15:11
> Thank you for asking, and your interest :)
>
> Gah! What a production just to get to the right agency and then get them out here to inspect!
>
> Still no conclusions. Am still working on above task. On my good days ;)
>
> Still exploring other possibilities, too. (i'm even hopeful for a ghostly entity, LOL, then i wouldn't have to tear the place apart.. )
>
> Yes, Lar, i was a little bit (still) overwhelmed in info overload... had to redirect my energy and take a break, the frustration exhaustion was heavy.I knew it. I could predict it. And I could feel it. Sorry you're going through this, but some things we go through have to be faced.
> Have returned from an extended visit away from home, and there is a DRAMATIC difference in my physical and mental wellbeing when i am out of this house... *deep sigh*
I think you've pretty much answered the question. You're sensitive to mycotoxins.
> It's hard to know how much of my subjective wellbeing is attributed to what. My pdoc is rather traditional psychiatry oriented, and wouldn't really consider mold with much weight.Maybe you might want to show him evidence from other jurisdictions? There's a local court house (Newmarket Ontario) that was closed down because of the mold. Massive and lenghty restoration, and some people still can't go back inside.
> My primary care MD isn't easily convinced to order this kind of specialized testing (i suspect it's expensive to the HMO?) and reasonably, i admit, reminds me of various other health reasons why i might be feeling the way i do...
But the way you do a differential diagnosis is to use specific tests to rule in or rule out the possibilities. There's an old medical school saying, "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.", reminding student doctors to think about more common maladies before the exotic, but, once you've ruled out horses, you have to consider zebras. Keep pushing. Just keep pushing.
> So in conclusion, there is no conclusion- YET. This process is taking a slow boat down alot of canals. But i really appreciate your interest and assistances. Makes me feel like maybe i'm not standing up in the boat alone ~ Thanx :)
>
> Will keep you posted,
> EscherI do appreciate the update. I was worried about you.
> p.s.
> The central fireplace has a wood-burning-stove inplace. But removing it and replacing the bricks & facade with intent to have a functional fireplace again is in my plans. The chimney has been serviced just last month and is now in perfect condition. Much more than the w-b-s, a real fireplace fire WOULD generate more heat through that central part. Thanx, tealady :)Prettier to watch, too.
Good luck, dude.
Lar
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