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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by castone on October 29, 2003, at 19:22:16
I have recently started (2 weeks) a new supplement for migraines. I am taking Magnesium glycinate as well as calcium, a multivitamin and some dietary restrictions.
Does anyone have experience with this? My headaches have improved (today is my first day in over 6 weeks w/o a headache). But my depression has also increased. I do not know if this is due to the long period of headaches or the new supplements.
I am considering taking Tryptophan because none of the meds for depression seem to help me without keeping me awake 24/7. (I have anxious depression with some panic attacks.) Has anyone combined this with magnesium?
thanks
Posted by JLx on October 30, 2003, at 7:06:15
In reply to migraines, posted by castone on October 29, 2003, at 19:22:16
> I have recently started (2 weeks) a new supplement for migraines. I am taking Magnesium glycinate as well as calcium, a multivitamin and some dietary restrictions.
How much of each and what specifically coincides with the increased depression?
> Does anyone have experience with this? My headaches have improved (today is my first day in over 6 weeks w/o a headache). But my depression has also increased. I do not know if this is due to the long period of headaches or the new supplements.
I wonder if it's the calcium (are you taking more?). There's a discussion on George Eby's site about magnesium/depression/stress regarding calcium here and elsewhere on the page: http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html#synapses He says,
"Too much calcium ion and glutamate and not enough magnesium ion, particularly in the hippocampus, play a vital role in brain cell synaptic dysfunction leading to depression and other mood and behavioral disorders. ... However, most surprising was the finding that even endogenous glutamate may cause neurotoxicity via over-excitation under certain conditions - a situation called "excitotoxicity". Processes that increase the sensitivity of glutamate receptors or affect glutamate homeostasis often induce cell death usually connected with Calcium2+ ion overload. ... Psychiatrists have known for many years that loss of hormonal control of calcium causes severe mental illnesses (dementias) including depression. Apparently, long term, stress with excessive calcium intake and limited magnesium intake can cause loss of hormonal control of calcium. ... For those of us that have consumed too much calcium relative to magnesium, excess calcium has become a neurotoxin. For example, I used to be so sensitive to calcium, that a single 500 mg calcium dietary supplement induced in me a strong feeling of depression within 1 hour (relievable with 400 mg magnesium). To me, this is clear evidence that either treatment-resistant or stress-induced depression are not necessarily psychological or psychiatric disorders (although depression certainly can be)."
When I first started magnesium supplementation, I cut out dairy and basically ALL sources of calcium from a formerly very high intake. And I felt great. Now I think I need some again, but I am having a hard time determining what is a good ratio of magnesium/calcium as I think I am sensitive to calcium in that same way. You too, perhaps?
Or, I've also noticed that since I've been supplementing with magnesium, EVERYTHING I thought I knew about how I react to things is out the window. I'm taking tyrosine now with good antidepressant effect, for instance, whereas it made me feel mean and irritable in the past. So, perhaps the magnesium is changing your reactions to other things too and you just need to figure out what. Or you could switch to a different kind of magnesium such as magnesium taurate which is what Eby is recommending these days:
"From early 2000 to summer of 2003, this essay focused upon magnesium glycinate as the preferred source of magnesium. Now, in late summer of 2003, I have shifted emphasis from magnesium glycinate to magnesium taurate, which appears considerably superior to all other forms of magnesium in treating treatment resistant depression. Other effective magnesium compounds mentioned throughout this essay are ranked well behind magnesium taurate and are not recommended unless magnesium taurate can not be obtained."
> I am considering taking Tryptophan because none of the meds for depression seem to help me without keeping me awake 24/7. (I have anxious depression with some panic attacks.) Has anyone combined this with magnesium?
>
> thanksIf you're not taking any meds, I don't see how it should be worrisome. I've taken 5-HTP with magnesium as well as many other things, such as the aminos I'm taking now.
I've never had migraines but I know people who have, and it must be great to be free of them....but then being more depressed instead is too bad. But there may natural remedies that can help there; perhaps just a matter of finding the right thing. I feel better on my amino acids and other things than I have in years (and certainly better than I ever felt on ADs) and it all STARTED with magnesium supplementation. So, I hope you don't get discouraged. :)
Posted by castone on November 1, 2003, at 18:56:54
In reply to Re: migraines » castone, posted by JLx on October 30, 2003, at 7:06:15
Thanks for the reponse. I quit taking the extra calcium (was taking 1500 mg) and immediately felt better. And had no headache today.
So now I am just taking 500mg magnesium glycinate and nothing else for the moment. I'll try to add one thing at a time until I get straight.
I did, however, today have strange waves of dizziness lasting 1-2 secs occuring every 10-15 minutes. I have no idea what this is related to. I have had it in the past but not as frequent. It may be an anxiety reaction. I am hoping that tryptophan will help with those.
Cathy
Posted by Jai on November 3, 2003, at 7:29:55
In reply to Re: migraines » castone, posted by JLx on October 30, 2003, at 7:06:15
>supplement for migraines
>There's a discussion on George Eby's site about magnesium/depression/stress regarding calcium here and elsewhere on the page: http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html#synapses He says,
>
> "Too much calcium ion and glutamate and not enough magnesium ion, particularly in the hippocampus, play a vital role in brain cell synaptic dysfunction leading to depression and other mood and behavioral disorders. ... However, most surprising was the finding that even endogenous glutamate may cause neurotoxicity via over-excitation under certain conditions - a situation called "excitotoxicity". Processes that increase the sensitivity of glutamate receptors or affect glutamate homeostasis often induce cell death usually connected with Calcium2+ ion overload. ...*This is absolutely fascinating. What a find of information! I really have a hard time with calcium. I too have suffered with migraines but took niacin for the flush and to redirect the blood. The only reason the niacin would work is because I would get an "aura" about half and hour before the pain. So I had time to pop the fast acting niacin (there's only one brand that's fast acting enough Nature's Plus Niacin 100mg I would only take one) That would stop the migraine pain but some sense of it would linger. I then would take 100mg niacin every night before bed for years to stop the migraines, it seemed to help with sleep as well. I can't take niacin now because of skin rash itch with the flush. I also connected headaches to constipation, hence magnesium 250mg to 500mg. I have not had a headache in 16years.
Posted by john1022 on November 3, 2003, at 8:24:02
In reply to Re: migraines, posted by Jai on November 3, 2003, at 7:29:55
"I can't take niacin now because of skin rash itch with the flush."
I don't thinking taking the plain niacin is recommended any more. Look into the supplement niacinanide, which is niacin but without the rash and itchiness. I have taken niacin before and have had the rashes/itchness, I took niacinmide in a good quantity and had none of that. best of luck
Posted by JLx on November 3, 2003, at 13:20:56
In reply to Re: migraines, posted by john1022 on November 3, 2003, at 8:24:02
The rashes/itchiness wears off if you keep using it. (Some conditions require the regular kind of niacin).
Lots of info here: http://community.healthgate.com/GetContent.asp?siteid=iHerb&docid=/tnp/pg000813
> "I can't take niacin now because of skin rash itch with the flush."
>
> I don't thinking taking the plain niacin is recommended any more. Look into the supplement niacinanide, which is niacin but without the rash and itchiness. I have taken niacin before and have had the rashes/itchness, I took niacinmide in a good quantity and had none of that. best of luck
Posted by castone on November 4, 2003, at 9:54:38
In reply to Re: migraines, posted by Jai on November 3, 2003, at 7:29:55
Wow !!!!!
It has been 14 days since I started taking magnesium for chronic daily migraines. Having to do some adjusting by listening to my self, I woke up today feeling GREAT!!! Better than I have in I can't remember how long.I have added 500 mg Mg to my existing habit of multivitamin - stoppped taking calcium (though I still get it in my diet), and stopped taking Celexa. And I feel great (did I day that already).
By the way, I had severe dizziness, irritability, and emotional dysregulation from celexa withdrawal but used Thought Field Therapy one time and it is gone. (for more on this see http://www.emofree.com/)
Cathy
Posted by JLx on November 4, 2003, at 10:12:23
In reply to Re: migraines, magnesium and depression, posted by castone on November 4, 2003, at 9:54:38
Hey, great! Glad to hear it. :) I had a very dramatically positive reaction to magnesium supplementation/decreased calcium too. I went off Zoloft and Provigil because I felt so good in just a couple days. I had only some mild withdrawal which was over in a day.
I've been reading about EFT on the Mercola site for a while, but haven't tried it. I have tried a tapping technique per the book "Instant Emotional Healing" and thought it worked one time particularly well, but I just haven't been very disciplined about using it regularly.
Did you buy the video or anything or did you learn it off the available free info?
> Wow !!!!!
> It has been 14 days since I started taking magnesium for chronic daily migraines. Having to do some adjusting by listening to my self, I woke up today feeling GREAT!!! Better than I have in I can't remember how long.
>
> I have added 500 mg Mg to my existing habit of multivitamin - stoppped taking calcium (though I still get it in my diet), and stopped taking Celexa. And I feel great (did I day that already).
>
> By the way, I had severe dizziness, irritability, and emotional dysregulation from celexa withdrawal but used Thought Field Therapy one time and it is gone. (for more on this see http://www.emofree.com/)
> Cathy
>
Posted by castone on November 6, 2003, at 15:21:05
In reply to Re: magnesium and depression/EFT » castone, posted by JLx on November 4, 2003, at 10:12:23
I learned it from a therapist who walked me through it one time and then gave me a photocopy from that website. I have taught it to several of my own clients (I am a therapist too - clinical social worker) and I don't think the exact technique is as important as the process of doing it. I'm not even sure the locations of the tapping are critical. I don't know why it works but it does for me.
Cathy
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