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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by alexandra_k on December 4, 2005, at 15:12:35
In reply to Re: Question about privacy of this site and Goggle » Jakeman, posted by Jakeman on December 2, 2005, at 19:55:52
> Since this thread got consolidated I've found it hard to follow.
heh heh.
> >is there a way to post on this site without it >going into the Google archives?
not that i know of.
> >Is there a way to "opt-out" to that my postings >stay on this site and don't go out all over the >internet?not that i know of.
> I skimmed through the previous "consolidated" discussions posted around 7/05. The thread goes off on several tangents leading to no real answer.heh heh.
welcome to admin :-)>Should I surmise that the answer is no? Or perhaps it's considered on ongoing discussion?
i think he said 'no' once or twice...
but that hasn't stopped us trying...> I'm not real internet-savy, but I believe at one time, maybe still, one could post to usenet with a header something like "archive, no" and it would not go into the permanant archives. So your posts would not live forever in cyberspace. Not possible here?
no.
and... if it were then people couldn't benefit from the archives. one of the great things about babble is if you are searching for information about a medication you can google for the posts. sometimes people find the information they are looking for from the archives.
and thats great...but some people talk about things that are really personal :-(
and it would be nice if there was someplace to do that where it was only viewable to members...
imo
Posted by wildcard on December 4, 2005, at 15:12:35
In reply to Re: Question about privacy of this site and Goggle » Jakeman, posted by alexandra_k on December 3, 2005, at 0:17:56
Posted by alexandra_k on December 4, 2005, at 15:12:35
In reply to Re: Question about privacy of this site and Goggle » Jakeman, posted by alexandra_k on December 3, 2005, at 0:17:56
> >Should I surmise that the answer is no? Or perhaps it's considered on ongoing discussion?
> i think he said 'no' once or twice...Actually...
From memory...
He said he was open to discussion
But would need compelling reason to change his mind.I *thought* I had some good reasons...
But maybe I didn't ;-)
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 4, 2005, at 15:37:03
In reply to Re: Question about privacy of this site and Goggle » Jakeman, posted by Jakeman on December 2, 2005, at 20:23:31
> perhaps it's considered on ongoing discussion?
I think it would be an interesting experiment:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050628/msgs/524824.html
And I'm trying to free up some time to work on new projects like this...
> there are thousands of chat boards that have the main site registered with google but all the individual posts are limited to that site, they don't go into the google database. Sleepnet.com is one that comes to mind.
There may be thousands of others, but Google "messages site:sleepnet.com"...
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on December 4, 2005, at 19:47:00
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by Dr. Bob on December 4, 2005, at 15:37:03
> > perhaps it's considered on ongoing discussion?
> I think it would be an interesting experiment:
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050628/msgs/524824.html
> And I'm trying to free up some time to work on new projects like this...Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeees.
How about 'new projects including this'
please
please
please:-)
Posted by alexandra_k on December 4, 2005, at 20:05:01
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle » Dr. Bob, posted by alexandra_k on December 4, 2005, at 19:47:00
'cause i think it is more than just an 'interesting experiment'.
i really do think that people would keep on posting to the main babble board so as to reach a wider range of people with their medication inquiries.
and i think the same would go for the psychology board. the more people who can read / respond the more likely you are to get posts where people can relate to what you have to say.
but... some people really are very worried about posting things that are fairly identifying. and about posting things that are really very personal. and about people irl reading some of that stuff... and maybe using it against you or poking fun or something.
and i know that it will always be possible in principle that someone you know irl could just join up to the same small board... and i know it will always be possible in principle that someone could hack into the board or the posters computer or somthing... but i have to say i think that is a whole heap less probable than people finding out a person posts to this site and them starting to read the posts and finding stuff out that way.
i think... people would still babble away on social etc.
i really don't think... it would affect the current boards all that much.
Posted by Jakeman on December 4, 2005, at 20:11:11
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by Dr. Bob on December 4, 2005, at 15:37:03
>>
> There may be thousands of others, but Google "messages site:sleepnet.com"...
>I stand corrected. Sleepnet is googlized too. Thereby all the world will benefit from my brilliant posts on Sleepnet! ;-)
Posted by rainbowbrite on December 4, 2005, at 20:17:39
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle » Dr. Bob, posted by Jakeman on December 4, 2005, at 20:11:11
Im becoming paranoid
really
Nothing is private
Posted by alexandra_k on December 4, 2005, at 21:05:29
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by alexandra_k on December 4, 2005, at 20:05:01
If you are worried about confounding small / large with private / public then...
Rainbow suggested (about the private boards)
>They dont even have to be small boards. It could even be just one big board, or a few specific boards that all posters have access too if registered. Requirement could be that they have to take another quiz and register but there should be a list of members who are signed up...
so there you would have a private (potentially) large board...
Posted by rainbowbrite on December 5, 2005, at 11:02:02
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by alexandra_k on December 4, 2005, at 21:05:29
yes, I think both Alex and Rainbow have a wonderful idea. Making it a big board prevents others who frequent babble from being left out since they would only have to register so that the users of this new board know who belongs. Please Dr Bob. Im feeling more and more uncomfortable here :-( Not that you should do it for me, but I wonder if some people who lurk, might come out if they could have a more secure place to do it?? You would be expanding in that sense. I know I would post more openly if I had a safe place to do it.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 5, 2005, at 19:10:00
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle » alexandra_k, posted by rainbowbrite on December 5, 2005, at 11:02:02
although... i don't know that i would feel much safer even if posters who were members were listed...
maybe... it is more about having a smaller group.
i don't know.
i give up.
Posted by rainbowbrite on December 5, 2005, at 19:24:05
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by alexandra_k on December 5, 2005, at 19:10:00
> although... i don't know that i would feel much safer even if posters who were members were listed...
>
> maybe... it is more about having a smaller group.
>
> i don't know.
>
> i give up.But it may still be small. It may bring lurkers out of the woodwork but it may not draw in that many regular posters. So It might be a collection of people who want more privacy who are posters as well as a few lurkers. Just a differnet group but not necessarilly huge.
Posted by rainbowbrite on December 5, 2005, at 19:27:54
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by rainbowbrite on December 5, 2005, at 19:24:05
that that still sets you up to have lurkers
a non googleable board??
Posted by Shame on December 6, 2005, at 7:12:50
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by rainbowbrite on December 5, 2005, at 19:24:05
Lurkers usually make up a sizeable percentage of any given message board. I would classify myself in the 'lurker' category. I read quite a few posts but rarely reply, and I can count the number of conversational posts I have made on one hand. I occasionally post on the Writing board, but I wouldn't say that I really contribute to anything. Take this post for example. What am I saying here? No one knows. Why haven’t you stopped reading? Pure bloody mindedness perhaps.But I digress. The practical upshot of this piece of junk is that there will be lurkers on any board, no matter how exclusive and how private. Short of imposing posting quotas, lurkers are a part of internet life.
The only work that is being bandied about here that really confounds me is 'privacy'. What kind of expectations does everyone have? I wont bore anyone with geek-speak, but on the internet, 'privacy' is a relative term.
Posted by Tamar on December 6, 2005, at 9:19:26
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by Shame on December 6, 2005, at 7:12:50
> Lurkers usually make up a sizeable percentage of any given message board. I would classify myself in the 'lurker' category. I read quite a few posts but rarely reply, and I can count the number of conversational posts I have made on one hand. I occasionally post on the Writing board, but I wouldn't say that I really contribute to anything. Take this post for example. What am I saying here? No one knows. Why haven’t you stopped reading? Pure bloody mindedness perhaps.
Ha ha ha! That really made me laugh! Yeah, bloody mindedness could probably explain most of the things I do.
> But I digress. The practical upshot of this piece of junk is that there will be lurkers on any board, no matter how exclusive and how private. Short of imposing posting quotas, lurkers are a part of internet life.
I think it’s easy to forget that. Perhaps the attraction of a non-googleable board is born of the occasional terror one might feel on suddenly realising that one’s mother-in-law could be reading.
Of course, it wouldn’t actually prevent mothers-in-law from reading. But it would feel safer. Just like wearing a seatbelt on an airplane feels safer. Yeah yeah, I know… turbulence…
> The only work that is being bandied about here that really confounds me is 'privacy'. What kind of expectations does everyone have? I wont bore anyone with geek-speak, but on the internet, 'privacy' is a relative term.
That’s very true. Until I did therapy I’d never felt inclined to search for private information about people, but I found my therapist’s home address and phone number on Google. I’m not actually stalking him, you understand. But it was very easy to find private information about him.
On the other hand, I think there’s a difference between information and ideas. Or at least, it feels that way to me. I’m a teacher and I don’t mind too much if my students find my telephone number (as long as they don’t pester me) but I wouldn’t want them to read what I’ve written here and connect it with me. However, I take the risk because I want to communicate with people here.
I have been very open here about my personal experiences and I suppose I could live with it if people I know were to read my posts. But there have been other things I’ve wanted to post about and I haven’t posted because I know that anyone could read it any time and I’d never know.
I don’t know if there’s a way around that. A members-only non-googleable board would provide a feeling of safety. But maybe it could lull people into a false sense of security…
Posted by ClearSkies on December 6, 2005, at 9:37:27
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Google » Shame, posted by Tamar on December 6, 2005, at 9:19:26
>
> I don’t know if there’s a way around that. A members-only non-googleable board would provide a feeling of safety. But maybe it could lull people into a false sense of security…
>
>...And how would have *any* of us found Babble in the first place if the posts had been unGoogleable? That's what got me here in the first place.
ClearSkies
Posted by rainbowbrite on December 6, 2005, at 9:49:37
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Google » Tamar, posted by ClearSkies on December 6, 2005, at 9:37:27
> >
> > I don’t know if there’s a way around that. A members-only non-googleable board would provide a feeling of safety. But maybe it could lull people into a false sense of security…
> >
> >
>
> ...And how would have *any* of us found Babble in the first place if the posts had been unGoogleable? That's what got me here in the first place.
>
> ClearSkies
>
>right, but if there was an non-googleable (how the heck do you spell that anyway) board attched to googleable boards? I dont know
Posted by rainbowbrite on December 6, 2005, at 9:51:52
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by Shame on December 6, 2005, at 7:12:50
>
> The only work that is being bandied about here that really confounds me is 'privacy'. What kind of expectations does everyone have? I wont bore anyone with geek-speak, but on the internet, 'privacy' is a relative term.
>Huh? What? You mean there are lots of people reading the posts?! :-o
lol j/k
good point, I think my time on the internet is getting shorter and shorter
Posted by rainbowbrite on December 6, 2005, at 9:52:52
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Google » Shame, posted by Tamar on December 6, 2005, at 9:19:26
But maybe it could lull people into a false sense of security…
GOOD POINT!! Thank you for pointing it out!
Posted by Tamar on December 6, 2005, at 10:42:49
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Google » Tamar, posted by ClearSkies on December 6, 2005, at 9:37:27
>
> ...And how would have *any* of us found Babble in the first place if the posts had been unGoogleable? That's what got me here in the first place.Yeah... like Rainbowbrite I was assuming we were talking about part of the community being ungoogleable, rather than the whole thing.
I don't have a problem with our posts being Googleable. I choose what to write about myself, knowing that it can be seen by just about anybody.
But I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if there were one board (or a few boards) that felt more private. I'm pretty sure I'd feel more comfortable talking about some of the things I never post here.
On the other hand, as Shame points out, there is no real privacy on the internet...
Posted by alexandra_k on December 6, 2005, at 13:54:04
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by Shame on December 6, 2005, at 7:12:50
> Lurkers usually make up a sizeable percentage of any given message board.
Yep. I think Dr Bob posted something a while back... I can't remember the exact figure but I think the estimate was that for every poster there were maybe 11 lurkers or something like that. Not sure how 'lurker' was defined. Someone who hasn't joined up as a member?
> Take this post for example. What am I saying here? No one knows. Why haven’t you stopped reading? Pure bloody mindedness perhaps.
LOL! Well I'm glad you decided to pipe up :-)
> there will be lurkers on any board, no matter how exclusive and how private.If only members can view the board...
Then only members can view the board.
And if there is a limit on the size of the board...
Then once the membership reaches the limit...
Nobody else would be able to view the board...> The only work that is being bandied about here that really confounds me is 'privacy'. What kind of expectations does everyone have? I wont bore anyone with geek-speak, but on the internet, 'privacy' is a relative term.
Yeah. It is a relative term.
I'd like to feel a bit safer...I guess...
To start with I was very careful...
Then over time I became less careful.
Kicking myself now rather...
But there is nothing I can do.
Need to get better at impulse control...
Or something.I don't know.
In two minds actually...
I love Babble
I find it really helpful to me to post about what is going on in my life...But I guess I need to realise that it is inappropriate to post a lot of the things I post.
Because...
It could do irrevokable damage IRL.I appreciate that non-googleable boards that are viewable only to members wouldn't be 100% secure.
I'm just looking at risk minimisation.But I guess...
It comes down to self control really
:-(
Posted by Jakeman on December 6, 2005, at 19:58:25
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle » Shame, posted by alexandra_k on December 6, 2005, at 13:54:04
I suspect that the typical user is not aware of the privacy ramifications of posting on sites such as this. I'd like to see, at the least, a prominent statement on the website maybe like: "Postings on this site are permanently archived on Goggle and other search engines and are visible to anyone who accesses the internet. These posts can be traced to your home internet address."
I think we are still in the early stages of the evolution of the internet. It's pretty much self-policeing now. Eventually the governent may step in, for better or worse.
Yes, isn't it interesting that it's so easy to find someone's address, phone number, and a map to their house. One search engine even gives you the person's age.
warm regards ~Jake
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 7, 2005, at 4:12:12
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by Jakeman on December 6, 2005, at 19:58:25
> I'd like to see, at the least, a prominent statement on the website maybe like: "Postings on this site are permanently archived on Goggle and other search engines and are visible to anyone who accesses the internet. These posts can be traced to your home internet address."
It does say at the top of every main page:
> What you say may conceivably be used against you.
And next to every "submit your post" button is a link to:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#privacy
Which includes:
> What you post is public, as public as if you put it up on an old-fashioned bulletin board in a supermarket. Maybe even more so, since there aren't supermarket bulletin board search engines.
Regarding tracing posts, I don't think "anyone who accesses the Internet" can do that...
Bob
Posted by Shame on December 7, 2005, at 7:53:55
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by Dr. Bob on December 7, 2005, at 4:12:12
>
> Regarding tracing posts, I don't think "anyone who accesses the Internet" can do that...
>
> BobOnce again avoiding geek talk here, there are steps you can take to see what information you are giving away. www.grc.com is a pretty good site that will test your connection and let you know what you need to do to close any security holes. You want the "Shields Up!" section of his site. It is kind of up-and-down sometimes, so if its not up at the moment, try a bit later.
All in all though, getting detailed information about someone through message board postings is a genius-hacker type of activity, so I would say that your exposure here is extremely low.
Posted by ClearSkies on December 7, 2005, at 18:24:08
In reply to small boards and privacy, posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2005, at 19:26:19
Not something you wear on your face.
Just had to do that, just a smidgen OCD-ly yours,
ClearSkies
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