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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on May 18, 2021, at 12:22:40
Just a few short descriptions regarding COVID-19
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Is COVID-19 Primarily A Disease Of The Circulatory System?COVID-19 can cause both blood leakage through damaged blood vessels and blood clots (thrombosis / embolism). These two effects are essentially opposite conditions. Either effect can occur, depending on the person. Blood leakage can occur throughout the body. This is NOT the result of coronavirus attacking directly the cells of the inner lining of blood vessels (epithelial cells). It is the result of the immune system being triggered by the virus to massively overreact and produce acute inflammation in many different tissues.
Blood clots have been reported to occur in people, even after the COVID-19 symptoms resolve. Blood clots can occur in the lungs (pulmonary embolism) legs, kidneys, and brain. Adding blood thinners, which usually dissolve blood clots, have no therapeutic effect. The outcome of both DVT *and* leaky blood vessels include cardiac events, brain damage, and stroke.
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mRNA Vaccines: How do they work?mRNA (messenger Ribonucleic Acid) is a chemical structure that is generated in the nucleus of the cell, and is a single-stranded reflection of the double- stranded DNA (Deoxyribonucleic Acid) contained there. mRNA leaves the nucleus and serves as the blueprint template for the construction of a specific protein (an amino acid sequence). In a naturally functioning cell, the amount of protein synthesized using these instructions is limited by the turning on and off of genes contained in the DNA of the nucleus.
This is absolutely brilliant:
What if you were to inject copious amounts of a specific mRNA into the cytoplasm (as opposed to the nucleus) of a cell? The cell generates copious amounts of the protein that the mRNA encodes for. Effectively, that cell is transformed into a factory for the overproduction of the virus antigen - the spike protein in this case. When these tiny pieces of the virus protein are released into the blood stream by the hijacked cell, they stimulate the immune system to produce antibodies. Here, antibodies are a reflection of the viral protein antigen, and they bind to that part of the live virus that the vaccine mRNA encodes for.
Antibodies can serve at least two purposes. One purpose is to stick to the virus and hold up a big red flag so that the killer immune cells can locate the virus and consume it.
Another way that an antibody can serve is to attach to a part of the virus that is necessary for the virus to function and kill healthy cells. With the SARS- CoV-2 coronavirus, the site through which it enters a healthy cell is a receptor that normally functions to control blood pressure, inflammation, and wound- healing. This is the ACE-2 receptor, which is located on the outer membrane of many types of body cells. By binding to and blocking the spike protein located on the outside of the virus (its corona), the antibody prevents the virus from attaching itself to the ACE-2 receptor, and thus prevents the virus from penetrating the cell to infect it.
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Vector Vaccines: How do they work?Unlike the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer; Moderna), vector-based vaccines (Johnson & Johnson; AstraZeneca), are produced by transplanting a piece of the SARS-CoV-2 DNA that encodes for the coronavirus antigen into a harmless adenovirus (like the common cold). The adenovirus is the vector. The transplanted DNA encodes for a piece of protein that is normally located on the spikes on the surface of the coronavirus. When the vector virus penetrates a healthy body cell, it releases the coronavirus DNA into the main cytoplasm (as opposed to the nucleus). There, the cell is instructed by the DNA to build its own spike proteins and erect them on the surface of its outer cell membrane. This is in contrast to the mRNA vaccines, which instruct the body cell to manufacture the antigen protein, but then releases it into the blood stream instead. With both types of vaccines, the immune system is provoked into producing antibodies in response to the presence of the spike protein antigen.
Posted by SLS on May 18, 2021, at 12:28:00
In reply to SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines, posted by SLS on May 18, 2021, at 12:22:40
EASIER TO READ:
Just a few short descriptions regarding COVID-19
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is COVID-19 Primarily A Disease Of The Circulatory System?COVID-19 can cause both blood leakage through damaged blood vessels and blood
clots (thrombosis / embolism). These two effects are essentially opposite
conditions. Either effect can occur, depending on the person. Blood leakage can
occur throughout the body. This is NOT the result of coronavirus attacking
directly the cells of the inner lining of blood vessels (epithelial cells). It
is the result of the immune system being triggered by the virus to massively
overreact and produce acute inflammation in many different tissues.Blood clots have been reported to occur in people, even after the COVID-19
symptoms resolve. Blood clots can occur in the lungs (pulmonary embolism) legs,
kidneys, and brain. Adding blood thinners, which usually dissolve blood clots,
have no therapeutic effect. The outcome of both DVT *and* leaky blood vessels
include cardiac events, brain damage, and stroke.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
mRNA Vaccines: How do they work?mRNA (messenger Ribonucleic Acid) is a chemical structure that is generated in
the nucleus of the cell, and is a single-stranded reflection of the double-
stranded DNA (Deoxyribonucleic Acid) contained there. mRNA leaves the nucleus
and serves as the blueprint template for the construction of a specific protein
(an amino acid sequence). In a naturally functioning cell, the amount of protein
synthesized using these instructions is limited by the turning on and off of
genes contained in the DNA of the nucleus.This is absolutely brilliant:
What if you were to inject copious amounts of a specific mRNA into the cytoplasm
(as opposed to the nucleus) of a cell? The cell generates copious amounts of
the protein that the mRNA encodes for. Effectively, that cell is transformed
into a factory for the overproduction of the virus antigen - the spike protein
in this case. When these tiny pieces of the virus protein are released into the
blood stream by the hijacked cell, they stimulate the immune system to produce
antibodies. Here, antibodies are a reflection of the viral protein antigen, and
they bind to that part of the live virus that the vaccine mRNA encodes for.Antibodies can serve at least two purposes. One purpose is to stick to the virus
and hold up a big red flag so that the killer immune cells can locate the virus
and consume it.Another way that an antibody can serve is to attach to a part of the virus that
is necessary for the virus to function and kill healthy cells. With the SARS-
CoV-2 coronavirus, the site through which it enters a healthy cell is a
receptor that normally functions to control blood pressure, inflammation, and
wound- healing. This is the ACE-2 receptor, which is located on the outer
membrane of many types of body cells. By binding to and blocking the spike
protein located on the outside of the virus (its corona), the antibody prevents
the virus from attaching itself to the ACE-2 receptor, and thus prevents the
virus from penetrating the cell to infect it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vector Vaccines: How do they work?Unlike the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer; Moderna), vector-based vaccines (Johnson &
Johnson; AstraZeneca), are produced by transplanting a piece of the SARS-CoV-2
DNA that encodes for the coronavirus antigen into a harmless adenovirus (like
the common cold). The adenovirus is the vector. The transplanted DNA encodes
for a piece of protein that is normally located on the spikes on the surface of
the coronavirus. When the vector virus penetrates a healthy body cell, it
releases the coronavirus DNA into the main cytoplasm (as opposed to the
nucleus). There, the cell is instructed by the DNA to build its own spike
proteins and erect them on the surface of its outer cell membrane. This is in
contrast to the mRNA vaccines, which instruct the body cell to manufacture the
antigen protein, but then releases it into the blood stream instead. With both
types of vaccines, the immune system is provoked into producing antibodies in
response to the presence of the spike protein antigen.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 18, 2021, at 12:30:11
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines, posted by SLS on May 18, 2021, at 12:28:00
Just a few short descriptions regarding COVID-19
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is COVID-19 Primarily A Disease Of The Circulatory System?COVID-19 can cause both blood leakage through damaged blood vessels and blood
clots (thrombosis / embolism). These two effects are essentially opposite
conditions. Either effect can occur, depending on the person. Blood leakage can
occur throughout the body. This is NOT the result of coronavirus attacking
directly the cells of the inner lining of blood vessels (epithelial cells). It
is the result of the immune system being triggered by the virus to massively
overreact and produce acute inflammation in many different tissues.Blood clots have been reported to occur in people, even after the COVID-19
symptoms resolve. Blood clots can occur in the lungs (pulmonary embolism) legs,
kidneys, and brain. Adding blood thinners, which usually dissolve blood clots,
have no therapeutic effect. The outcome of both DVT *and* leaky blood vessels
include cardiac events, brain damage, and stroke.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
mRNA Vaccines: How do they work?mRNA (messenger Ribonucleic Acid) is a chemical structure that is generated in
the nucleus of the cell, and is a single-stranded reflection of the double-
stranded DNA (Deoxyribonucleic Acid) contained there. mRNA leaves the nucleus
and serves as the blueprint template for the construction of a specific protein
(an amino acid sequence). In a naturally functioning cell, the amount of protein
synthesized using these instructions is limited by the turning on and off of
genes contained in the DNA of the nucleus.This is absolutely brilliant:
What if you were to inject copious amounts of a specific mRNA into the cytoplasm
(as opposed to the nucleus) of a cell? The cell generates copious amounts of
the protein that the mRNA encodes for. Effectively, that cell is transformed
into a factory for the overproduction of the virus antigen - the spike protein
in this case. When these tiny pieces of the virus protein are released into the
blood stream by the hijacked cell, they stimulate the immune system to produce
antibodies. Here, antibodies are a reflection of the viral protein antigen, and
they bind to that part of the live virus that the vaccine mRNA encodes for.Antibodies can serve at least two purposes. One purpose is to stick to the virus
and hold up a big red flag so that the killer immune cells can locate the virus
and consume it.Another way that an antibody can serve is to attach to a part of the virus that
is necessary for the virus to function and kill healthy cells. With the SARS-
CoV-2 coronavirus, the site through which it enters a healthy cell is a
receptor that normally functions to control blood pressure, inflammation, and
wound- healing. This is the ACE-2 receptor, which is located on the outer
membrane of many types of body cells. By binding to and blocking the spike
protein located on the outside of the virus (its corona), the antibody prevents
the virus from attaching itself to the ACE-2 receptor, and thus prevents the
virus from penetrating the cell to infect it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vector Vaccines: How do they work?Unlike the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer; Moderna), vector-based vaccines (Johnson &
Johnson; AstraZeneca), are produced by transplanting a piece of the SARS-CoV-2
DNA that encodes for the coronavirus antigen into a harmless adenovirus (like
the common cold). The adenovirus is the vector. The transplanted DNA encodes
for a piece of protein that is normally located on the spikes on the surface of
the coronavirus. When the vector virus penetrates a healthy body cell, it
releases the coronavirus DNA into the main cytoplasm (as opposed to the
nucleus). There, the cell is instructed by the DNA to build its own spike
proteins and erect them on the surface of its outer cell membrane. This is in
contrast to the mRNA vaccines, which instruct the body cell to manufacture the
antigen protein, but then releases it into the blood stream instead. With both
types of vaccines, the immune system is provoked into producing antibodies in
response to the presence of the spike protein antigen.
- Scott
Posted by undopaminergic on May 19, 2021, at 5:08:57
In reply to SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines, posted by SLS on May 18, 2021, at 12:22:40
I didn't quite understand the difference between a vector vaccine and an mRNA vaccine. It seems both of them inject a part of the Corona-virus into body cells?
-undopaminergic
Posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2021, at 9:05:34
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines » SLS, posted by undopaminergic on May 19, 2021, at 5:08:57
Scott when it says "kills healthy cell". Which healthy cells are they one of ours ? That part doesn't sound good. Did you get vaccinated? And if so mrna or viral vector. Also does the J&J ever go away like the flue shot does or is it in your body forever. My concern is being 75 years old. Seems in the two months since that vaccine both myself and husband have lost a lot of energy. Do you trust these vaccines? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by sigismund on May 19, 2021, at 20:07:40
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines, posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2021, at 9:05:34
I had the first Astrozeneca dose yesterday. Took some Panadol last night.
I don't care about blood clots as long as they take me out.
Posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2021, at 20:52:16
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines, posted by sigismund on May 19, 2021, at 20:07:40
I thought cases were very low there Sigi? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on May 19, 2021, at 21:02:58
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines » SLS, posted by undopaminergic on May 19, 2021, at 5:08:57
> I didn't quite understand the difference between a vector vaccine and an mRNA vaccine. It seems both of them inject a part of the Corona-virus into body cells?
>
> -undopaminergic
>
mRNA Vaccine: Insert the antigen mRNA into a body cell. The cell is instructed by the mRNA to manufacture large huge amounts of an antigen and then release it into the blood stream.Vector Vaccine: Transplant or stitch the antigen DNA into a harmless adenovirus. This virus is the vector. Once the adenovirus penetrates a body cell, the DNA enters the nucleus of the cell and is instructed to manufacture an antigen and express it (build it) on the surface of the cell membrane.
- Scott
Posted by sigismund on May 19, 2021, at 21:10:14
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines » sigismund, posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2021, at 20:52:16
They are non-existent right now, but I would be surprised if it stays like that for very long.
Posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2021, at 23:30:40
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines » Phillipa, posted by sigismund on May 19, 2021, at 21:10:14
That's fantastic isn't it because they close the borders? Why do you expect it to get worse? Phillipa
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 20, 2021, at 5:04:55
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines, posted by SLS on May 19, 2021, at 21:02:58
Isn't it the spike protein mRNA?
> mRNA Vaccine: Insert the antigen mRNA into a body cell. The cell is instructed by the mRNA to manufacture large huge amounts of an antigen and then release it into the blood stream.
Posted by undopaminergic on May 20, 2021, at 11:52:50
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines, posted by SLS on May 19, 2021, at 21:02:58
> > I didn't quite understand the difference between a vector vaccine and an mRNA vaccine. It seems both of them inject a part of the Corona-virus into body cells?
> >
> > -undopaminergic
> >
>
>
> mRNA Vaccine: Insert the antigen mRNA into a body cell. The cell is instructed by the mRNA to manufacture large huge amounts of an antigen and then release it into the blood stream.
>
> Vector Vaccine: Transplant or stitch the antigen DNA into a harmless adenovirus. This virus is the vector. Once the adenovirus penetrates a body cell, the DNA enters the nucleus of the cell and is instructed to manufacture an antigen and express it (build it) on the surface of the cell membrane.
>How does the mRNA get inserted into the body cell? Since there is no vector?
-undopaminergic
Posted by SLS on May 20, 2021, at 14:26:32
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines, posted by sigismund on May 19, 2021, at 20:07:40
> I had the first Astrozeneca dose yesterday. Took some Panadol last night.
> I don't care about blood clots as long as they take me out.
>
You are so bad!
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 20, 2021, at 14:40:34
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines » SLS, posted by undopaminergic on May 20, 2021, at 11:52:50
> > > I didn't quite understand the difference between a vector vaccine and an mRNA vaccine. It seems both of them inject a part of the Corona-virus into body cells?
> > >
> > > -undopaminergic
> > >
> >
> >
> > mRNA Vaccine: Insert the antigen mRNA into a body cell. The cell is instructed by the mRNA to manufacture large huge amounts of an antigen and then release it into the blood stream.
> >
> > Vector Vaccine: Transplant or stitch the antigen DNA into a harmless adenovirus. This virus is the vector. Once the adenovirus penetrates a body cell, the DNA enters the nucleus of the cell and is instructed to manufacture an antigen and express it (build it) on the surface of the cell membrane.
> >
>
> How does the mRNA get inserted into the body cell? Since there is no vector?
>
> -undopaminergic
>
Your question is the result of my unfortunate use of the word "inserted". The vaccine contains snippets of mRNA that code for the antigen protein - a small section of the spike protein. This mRNA makes its way into the muscle cells surrounding the injection site, whereupon the cells beome antigen factories. I don't know if it's an active uptake or osmosis.
- Scott
Posted by sigismund on May 20, 2021, at 17:08:29
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines » sigismund, posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2021, at 23:30:40
>Why do you expect it to get worse? Phillipa
The borders are now more or less shut. When they gradually open infected people will return. And there may be new and worse variants.
Posted by sigismund on May 20, 2021, at 17:14:01
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines » Phillipa, posted by sigismund on May 20, 2021, at 17:08:29
And then everyone who is now hesitant will want the vaccine, and that takes a while to organise.
The virus has been full of surprises thus far.
Posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2021, at 20:40:14
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines » sigismund, posted by sigismund on May 20, 2021, at 17:14:01
Today according to new 6 cases of African variant positive in SC. Evidently they are not sure if current vaccines will cover this variant. As for opening the borders. Keep them closed. The USA is crazy for letting life go on as if nothing is going on. I think they are wanting to cut the population down. My comment sounds like a conspiracy theory. But why not just continue masking and social distancing for a while longer? Phillipa
Posted by sigismund on May 21, 2021, at 1:48:44
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines » sigismund, posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2021, at 20:40:14
With hindsight we can see that covid could have been stopped like that.
>But why not just continue masking and social distancing for a while longer?
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 22, 2021, at 4:40:47
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines » sigismund, posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2021, at 20:40:14
I really don't think so.
>I think they are wanting to cut the population down. My comment sounds like a conspiracy theory.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 8, 2021, at 2:18:48
In reply to Re: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, COVID-19, and Vaccines, posted by Lamdage22 on May 22, 2021, at 4:40:47
I am having my second Biontech/Pfizer shot this week. I know someone who knows a fully vaccinated doctor who infected like 8 people though his whole own family and a girlfriend. So yeah, it is more of a protection against a severe course of illness than a sterile immunity. Sterile immunity would mean you can't get or transmit the virus.
I guess it sure is better than nothing, but it is not a guarantee at all. You shouldn't french kiss everyone you meet.
This is the end of the thread.
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