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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bissie66 on October 17, 2018, at 15:41:46
I am on day 2 of taking Vraylar, prescribed for bipolar depression (another of those last-ditch attempts at relief).
I was already in a pretty bad depression but today I was just knocked down. I normally have a hard time getting ready for work but I always go because it's actually kind of a relief for me - somewhere I can feel normal for a bit. But today I just couldn't even get dressed. I was sobbing my eyes out off and on all day. Yesterday was pretty much the same and I left work early. My anxiety is at a very high level too. I feel scared and unsettled all the time.
I'm wondering if it's the Vraylar or just the depression getting worse.
Should I stick with it? Did anyone feel bad at first but then it kicked in and it worked? How long did it take to start working?
Thanks. Anyone's reply would be really lovely. I'm lost.
Posted by SLS on October 17, 2018, at 15:52:38
In reply to Did Vraylar make anyone feel worse?, posted by bissie66 on October 17, 2018, at 15:41:46
> I am on day 2 of taking Vraylar, prescribed for bipolar depression (another of those last-ditch attempts at relief).
>
> I was already in a pretty bad depression but today I was just knocked down. I normally have a hard time getting ready for work but I always go because it's actually kind of a relief for me - somewhere I can feel normal for a bit. But today I just couldn't even get dressed. I was sobbing my eyes out off and on all day. Yesterday was pretty much the same and I left work early. My anxiety is at a very high level too. I feel scared and unsettled all the time.
>
> I'm wondering if it's the Vraylar or just the depression getting worse.
>
> Should I stick with it? Did anyone feel bad at first but then it kicked in and it worked? How long did it take to start working?
>
> Thanks. Anyone's reply would be really lovely. I'm lost.It is difficult to generalize reactions to everyone taking the same drug. As for myself, I had Vraylar make my depression significantly worse within a few days. I opted to discontinue it at that point. Vraylar has a very long half-life, and I was unwilling to take the chance of triggering a bad reaction that would last for weeks or months.
Let's see what other people have to say.
- Scott
Posted by bissie66 on October 17, 2018, at 18:14:26
In reply to Re: Did Vraylar make anyone feel worse?, posted by SLS on October 17, 2018, at 15:52:38
Scott, thank you. It's funny (well, not really funny) but I was researching this drug on this website and I came upon your story. I had a feeling I would have the same reaction. My depression seems similar to yours. (I'm not a stalker but whenever I google something on Dr. Bob I see your name came up, usually trying to be of help to someone. You clearly know a lot and also have a lot of compassion.) I could hear the hope you had, that I have had, so many times, that maybe this will be the one that works. And I could feel your disappointment when you reported that it was actually making things worse. I told my pdoc I want ECT. What else is left?
I am pretty scared to take it again and I've only taken it two days. Do you think I should keep taking it for a couple days? Hopefully people will report their experience. Maybe someone will say it made them feel bad for 3 days and then wonderful from then on.
I don't think I can take it, knowing how I felt this morning. I know depression very well, even bad depression, but this was, well, as you said, significantly worse.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2018, at 2:59:43
In reply to Re: Did Vraylar make anyone feel worse? » SLS, posted by bissie66 on October 17, 2018, at 18:14:26
I couldnt sleep on vraylar. I took one pill. Like Scott the long half life scared me but i didnt even last 5 days. I had no adverse effects just a little stimulation for two hours.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2018, at 3:08:34
In reply to Re: Did Vraylar make anyone feel worse?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2018, at 2:59:43
I am doing better than i ever thought i would since i have become ill. So there is something to lose here. I dont want to mess it up!
Posted by SLS on October 18, 2018, at 7:59:02
In reply to Re: Did Vraylar make anyone feel worse?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2018, at 3:08:34
> I am doing better than i ever thought i would since i have become ill. So there is something to lose here. I dont want to mess it up!
That's incredibly good news!
What do you attribute your improvement to?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 18, 2018, at 8:23:34
In reply to Re: Did Vraylar make anyone feel worse? » SLS, posted by bissie66 on October 17, 2018, at 18:14:26
Hi.
Regarding Vraylar (cariprazine):
> I am pretty scared to take it again and I've only taken it two days. Do you think I should keep taking it for a couple days? Hopefully people will report their experience. Maybe someone will say it made them feel bad for 3 days and then wonderful from then on.
>
> I don't think I can take it, knowing how I felt this morning. I know depression very well, even bad depression, but this was, well, as you said, significantly worse.I often have a difficult time recommending to others a course of action, primarily because we all react so differently to the same drugs. I wouldn't want to be responsible for someone missing their best opportunity to get well.
In what ways is your depression worse or different from what you usually experience?
Why are you convinced that ECT is your only recourse at this juncture? What was your experience while taking MAOIs? My best responses in the past have been to a combination of MAOI and TCA. I would probably have lived my last 30 years in remission had my old doctor not withdrawn a combination of Parnate + desipramine. I was in remission for almost a year while taking it. I cannot fault him too much, though. I had become manic as a reaction to treatment. When I relapsed into depression, he refused to treat me with the same drugs. I might have been able to tolerate them if he would have kept me on lithium and clonazepam (Klonopin). It's hard to know.
Is there any history of bipolar disorder in your family?
I am currently taking:
Nardil 45 mg/day
Nortriptyline 100 mg/day
Lamictal 300 mg/day
Lithium 300 mg/day
Prazosing 30 mg/dayI have been better since introducing the Nardil. I had a horrific summer. I discontinued Parnate and tried taking Trintellix in June. It looks like I had a bad reaction to it. I was left with a worsened depression and terrible brain-fog. This persisted for months after I stopped taking it. There are still some residual negative effects, but they have been dissipating gradually.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2018, at 11:23:28
In reply to Re: Did Vraylar make anyone feel worse?, posted by SLS on October 18, 2018, at 7:59:02
Supplements, blueberries, sports and activity. I would like to know the mechanism of action of blueberries. I think there is more than one. Maybe i can learn something from that as in knowing what substances to look out for. I think not being psychotic for years helps, too.
I have to do some research.
> That's incredibly good news!
>
> What do you attribute your improvement to?
Posted by Christ_empowered on October 18, 2018, at 13:38:06
In reply to Re: Did Vraylar make anyone feel worse? » SLS, posted by bissie66 on October 17, 2018, at 18:14:26
i kind of find it surprising that Abilify and its children have such a strong market in treating depression. i take 20mgs/abilify daily. i tolerate it well, especially with all the high dose antioxidants on board (Orthomolecular), but..
its still -very much- a tranquilizer/neuroleptic. that means...heavy artillery.
i get hardcore dysphoria when i take too much Abilify or when drugs added on board boost blood levels. I don't know much about Vraylar, but...the D2 partial agonists are odd, in that they can zombie-fy you, shut down your emotions, and cause -intense- drug induced dysphoria...without EPS. No twitches, but all sorts of other kinds of drug-induced misery.
i don't recommend ECT/EST either. mine was not voluntary and it was a disaster. The mental health people now say "you've recovered!," when what they really mean is...you survived and now your people have money. :-(but seriously...be careful about shock treatments. its a big industry, but it can seriously damage people. mine was a disaster. i had a family member who had it back in the day (voluntarily), and it wasn't disastrous, but he always needed a mood drug and a benzodiazepine, indefinitely. is that really "optimal treatment" ? to me it just seemed that they fried his brain and then kept him on the right drugs to keep him from feeling the pain of his life, ever again. :-(
ok. do be careful, please. :-)
Posted by bissie66 on October 18, 2018, at 15:22:41
In reply to Re: Did Vraylar make anyone feel worse? » bissie66, posted by SLS on October 18, 2018, at 8:23:34
> Hi.
>
> Regarding Vraylar (cariprazine):
>
> > I am pretty scared to take it again and I've only taken it two days. Do you think I should keep taking it for a couple days? Hopefully people will report their experience. Maybe someone will say it made them feel bad for 3 days and then wonderful from then on.
> >
> > I don't think I can take it, knowing how I felt this morning. I know depression very well, even bad depression, but this was, well, as you said, significantly worse.
>
> I often have a difficult time recommending to others a course of action, primarily because we all react so differently to the same drugs. I wouldn't want to be responsible for someone missing their best opportunity to get well.
>
> In what ways is your depression worse or different from what you usually experience?> Why are you convinced that ECT is your only recourse at this juncture? What was your experience while taking MAOIs? My best responses in the past have been to a combination of MAOI and TCA. I would probably have lived my last 30 years in remission had my old doctor not withdrawn a combination of Parnate + desipramine. I was in remission for almost a year while taking it. I cannot fault him too much, though. I had become manic as a reaction to treatment. When I relapsed into depression, he refused to treat me with the same drugs. I might have been able to tolerate them if he would have kept me on lithium and clonazepam (Klonopin). It's hard to know.
>
> Is there any history of bipolar disorder in your family?
>
> I am currently taking:
>
> Nardil 45 mg/day
> Nortriptyline 100 mg/day
> Lamictal 300 mg/day
> Lithium 300 mg/day
> Prazosing 30 mg/day
>
> I have been better since introducing the Nardil. I had a horrific summer. I discontinued Parnate and tried taking Trintellix in June. It looks like I had a bad reaction to it. I was left with a worsened depression and terrible brain-fog. This persisted for months after I stopped taking it. There are still some residual negative effects, but they have been dissipating gradually.
>
>
> - ScottSLS - I didn't take the Vraylar today and I was able to make it to work. My depression isn't worse than previous depressions but the Vraylar made me feel like it was. It reminded me of when I started taking Zoloft when I was pregnant. I was bipolar or possibly bipolar 2 at the time. I had taken Zoloft for years and then it pooped out (oh for those glory days - when meds worked - and only one at that!). I was taking something different when I got pregnant (3rd pregnancy), I can't remember what, but I know Neurontin was one thing and possibly Effexor. Anyway, my doc stopped those drugs and put me back on Zoloft bc it was known to be safe even in the first trimester of pregnancy. Without the mood stabilizer on board (which I think was Neurontin which surprises me now bc I don't think of it as a mood stabilizer) I was a complete mess. I nearly had a breakdown. Add the hormones and the unsurety that I wanted the pregnancy. But I had *extreme* insomnia (never had that before or after) with HIGH anxiety (I remember lying awake praying to a God I no longer believe in to help me sleep and make it through the night). FINALLY those effing doctors let me take an OTC sleep med. That made things a lot better. But as I said very high anxiety (my pdoc today would have prescribed valium, and rightly so) all morning. Oddly afternoons I felt better. I couldn't eat - it was repulsive. I was extremely depressed and cried all the time. I also ruminated and worried constantly. That's how I've felt with Vraylar. Thank god I have an rx now for klonopin. My usualy depressions now are bad enough but I have something to help me sleep (aeroquel or Neurontin which for some reason knocks me out). I always lose my appetite and a lot of weight but this time around it's different and I'm wanting to eat. Weird.
I haven't take MAOIs. I'll ask my doctor. I never thought about it and he hasn't brought it up. He's very good so I'm surprised. He is a very scholarly person who is up on all the latest NIH research and reads peer-reviewed studies, etc.
He is willing to try unusual things like Modafanil which is rarely prescribed but which an NIH study found useful for tx-resistant patients.What is TCA? It s a crying shame that your dr wouldn't put you back on the drugs that kept you in remission for a whole year. So what if you became manic? There are ways to treat that, as you said.
Yep, there's a history of bipolar disordor and I myself have that diagnosis. Here's what I take:
Modafanil 200 mg once or twice a day (it's up to me)
Wellbutrin 150 mg (I'm not sure why; it's not doing anything that I can see)
Levoxyl for my thyroid disease
Lithium 300 mg at night
Lamictal 300 mg at night
Seroquel 25-200 mg at night for sleep (right now I only need 25 but there was a time I needed 200!)
Neurontin 300 mg 3 times a day BUT I don't always take this. It has been a strange drug for me. Worked well first time around, second time around it made me feel literally crazy, third time around (now) it makes me feel kind of calmer but also sometimes I fall asleep at my desk. When I started it on vacation and took 600 mg at a time as directed I slept nearly round the clock. This didn't happen first two times I was prescribed it. Does Neurontin make you feel bad (if you've tried it)?
Clonazapam 1 mg 3 times a day (in a good period I don't need it . much; lately I need every bit of it or more)
Also a number of vitamins and supplementsI think that's it. My current depression (before and after Vraylar) is crying every day, constant anxiety (klonopin is a lifesaver), extreme social anxiety, inability to think clearly. I work a ton but I didn't used to. It takes me more time to get the same amount done. I also hate myslef and wish I could die. I am hopeless. I think I am an awful person and an awful mother. I also can't cook, clean, or grocery shop. I don't have a mate right now so I feel quite alone. (My ex-boyfriend is still around though and he helps me.) I feel my life is a disaster and not worth living except I have 3 kids. Only one is still at home thank God.
I am sorry you had a horrific summer!
So the reason I thought ECT was my only recourse was because I thought I had tried everything. Maybe some of what you are taking would work.
Posted by bissie66 on October 18, 2018, at 15:24:37
In reply to Re: Did Vraylar make anyone feel worse?, posted by Christ_empowered on October 18, 2018, at 13:38:06
> i kind of find it surprising that Abilify and its children have such a strong market in treating depression. i take 20mgs/abilify daily. i tolerate it well, especially with all the high dose antioxidants on board (Orthomolecular), but..
>
> its still -very much- a tranquilizer/neuroleptic. that means...heavy artillery.
>
> i get hardcore dysphoria when i take too much Abilify or when drugs added on board boost blood levels. I don't know much about Vraylar, but...the D2 partial agonists are odd, in that they can zombie-fy you, shut down your emotions, and cause -intense- drug induced dysphoria...without EPS. No twitches, but all sorts of other kinds of drug-induced misery.
>
>
> i don't recommend ECT/EST either. mine was not voluntary and it was a disaster. The mental health people now say "you've recovered!," when what they really mean is...you survived and now your people have money. :-(
>
> but seriously...be careful about shock treatments. its a big industry, but it can seriously damage people. mine was a disaster. i had a family member who had it back in the day (voluntarily), and it wasn't disastrous, but he always needed a mood drug and a benzodiazepine, indefinitely. is that really "optimal treatment" ? to me it just seemed that they fried his brain and then kept him on the right drugs to keep him from feeling the pain of his life, ever again. :-(
>
> ok. do be careful, please. :-)THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE WARNING ABOUT ECT!!
I really do appreciate it and will definitely reconsider!
Posted by Christ_empowered on October 19, 2018, at 8:51:24
In reply to Re: Did Vraylar make anyone feel worse? » Christ_empowered, posted by bissie66 on October 18, 2018, at 15:24:37
thanks. I'm glad you're rethinking ect/est. i have an acquaintance...her dad gets voluntary est all the time. i mean, its ridiculous. its a private, for profit hospital, he has fund$ and good insurance, so...there you go. profit and power over people? why, never in mental health, inc. never, i say, never! (note the sarcasm).
do be careful, please. I read somewhere...after enough shock, the brain has been subjected to a lobotomy+extra brain damage, all over the place. ugh. rather sad to think of it that way, isn't it?
im not a screaming, angry, bitter ex-patient, either. not now, anyway. my shock was a disaster, now...I don't know, honestly. God can make good of anything, potentially for anyone, anywhere, at any time for...His own reasons, I suppose. Other than that...
"where there's life, there's hope." I somehow recovered from my est, so I see now its not necessarily the end of the world. on the other hand...
if i can help get even -1- person to take a step back and work with an MD/DO to find a better, more constructive, more life-affirming way to dealing with...afflictions, I suppose...then I can pat myself on the back, perhaps treat myself to a gelato. :-)
Posted by sigismund on November 2, 2018, at 19:50:07
In reply to Re: Did Vraylar make anyone feel worse?, posted by Christ_empowered on October 18, 2018, at 13:38:06
>i don't recommend ECT/EST either. mine was not voluntary and it was a disaster. The mental health people now say "you've recovered!," when what they really mean is...you survived and now your people have money. :-(
You'll stop complaining if you know what's good for you. Or so my old psych said.
Posted by Bissie66 on December 1, 2018, at 13:13:30
In reply to Re: Did Vraylar make anyone feel worse? » bissie66, posted by SLS on October 18, 2018, at 8:23:34
SLS not sure if you check alternatives board but just posted and thought of you cuz were euqall tx resistantanr. Saw a new highly esteemed doctor. And he prescribed the most interesting hopeful supplement. I am wondering if you know about it. And by the way I asked him your question about why I have never tried MAOI drugs and Parnate is on his list of things for me to try.
Posted by bissie66 on December 2, 2018, at 18:54:04
In reply to Re: Did Vraylar make anyone feel worse? » SLS, posted by Bissie66 on December 1, 2018, at 13:13:30
I also tried Rexulti for a few weeks. Nothing good came of it and in the end I had the familiar agitation/anger/restless feeling I often get from atypicals. It did not however make me suicidal like Vraylar did.
Another one bit the dust.
Posted by SLS on December 3, 2018, at 10:49:07
In reply to Re: Did Vraylar make anyone feel worse?, posted by bissie66 on December 2, 2018, at 18:54:04
> I also tried Rexulti for a few weeks. Nothing good came of it and in the end I had the familiar agitation/anger/restless feeling I often get from atypicals. It did not however make me suicidal like Vraylar did.
>
> Another one bit the dust.Thanks. I'll check out the Alterenative board.
I had a very negative reaction to Vraylar. It made my depression significantly worse. I stopped taking it after being on it for a week. I was happy to discontinue it early because its half life is so long. It took at least 5 days for the reaction to dissipate.
Is there anything that has helped you in the past - even if only partially?
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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