![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Hordak on April 17, 2018, at 17:34:06
Hi guys,
I am suffering from Dystymia and SAD and have been taking Sertraline 50 - 75mg for over a year now. It helps with psychosomatic ailments and moderately attenuates the anxiety & fear. My problem with Sertraline is: It makes me an apathetic zombie, indifferent to life and very unmotivated. I have sleep disturbances, the sleep is unrestful. I've also lost quite a bit of weight and am more agitated. Besides that I have hot-flashes and palpitations on a regular basis. My pdoc said that I will have to live with the sides and that he can't do anything about it. He advised me that I should try to get used to it...
My question: is there something that I could use to augment the Sertraline and make it all more bearable for me?
Thank you very much for your help. I appreciate that!
Greetings, Hordak
Posted by SLS on April 17, 2018, at 17:48:47
In reply to Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent., posted by Hordak on April 17, 2018, at 17:34:06
> I am suffering from Dystymia and SAD
SAD = Social Anxiety Disorder
SAD = Seasonal Affective DisorderWhich one?
My reaction to sertraline was similar to yours in some ways: brain fog; apathy; amotivation.
Which other SSRIs have you tried?
> My question: is there something that I could use to augment the Sertraline and make it all more bearable for me?
Why not just switch drugs?
- Scott
Posted by Hordak on April 17, 2018, at 17:54:22
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent. » Hordak, posted by SLS on April 17, 2018, at 17:48:47
> > I am suffering from Dystymia and SAD
>
> SAD = Social Anxiety Disorder
> SAD = Seasonal Affective Disorder
>
> Which one?#==> The first one... Social Anxiety ;=)
> My reaction to sertraline was similar to yours in some ways: brain fog; apathy; amotivation.
#==> What did help you?
> Which other SSRIs have you tried?
#==> None
> > My question: is there something that I could use to augment the Sertraline and make it all more bearable for me?
>
> Why not just switch drugs?#==> Is a possibility.
Posted by Joe f on April 17, 2018, at 18:53:38
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent., posted by Hordak on April 17, 2018, at 17:54:22
Have you ever tried Luvox
Posted by Hordak on April 17, 2018, at 19:18:33
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent., posted by Joe f on April 17, 2018, at 18:53:38
> Have you ever tried Luvox
>Nope
Posted by SLS on April 17, 2018, at 21:15:41
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent., posted by Hordak on April 17, 2018, at 17:54:22
> > > I am suffering from Dystymia and SAD
> >
> > SAD = Social Anxiety Disorder
> > SAD = Seasonal Affective Disorder
> >
> > Which one?
>
> #==> The first one... Social Anxiety ;=)
>
> > My reaction to sertraline was similar to yours in some ways: brain fog; apathy; amotivation.
>
> #==> What did help you?We are still working on that one. My case is an unusual type of bipolar disorder that is difficult to treat. Sertraline was not a good drug for me. Apparently, it is a bad drug for you, too. There are other drugs to choose from. I do better on SNRI drugs like venlafaxine (Effexor) and duloxetine (Cymbalta). If you want to try another SSRI, escitalopram (Lexapro) is often chosen first by psychiatrists. I'm going to try vortioxetine (Trintellix) next.
It is unreasonable for you to be asked to continue taking sertraline. I would recommend that you see another doctor.
- Scott
Posted by Christ_empowered on April 18, 2018, at 11:49:45
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent. » Hordak, posted by SLS on April 17, 2018, at 21:15:41
hi. can you get a new shrink? not to sound too critical, but your current shrinks sounds...not so great.
anyway, there are other ssri drugs. good ole prozac can get the job done w/ less apathy, etc. than zoloft. zoloft (aka: soul-off) does a number on frontal lobe function, more so than the other ssri drugs (I think...). anyway, the de-activation, mixed with a touch of stimulation, can help some people, its a nightmare for others. I'm thinking you're in the 2nd category.
adding wellbutrin might help. then again...factor in drug-drug interactions, that could make the apathy worse and add more stimulation. it is a relatively common maneuver, though.
maybe a non-ssri option? remeron+wellbutrin, remeron+a stimulant (if that's an option...), remeron+effexor or cymbalta....
sorry this is happening. zoloft was a nightmare for me, too, and it kind of snuck up on me. it wasn't until id tapered off that i realized: whoa there, I was living in an apathetic, angry haze...not good, not good at all.
hope things get better for you. :-)
Posted by Hordak on April 18, 2018, at 15:54:11
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent., posted by Christ_empowered on April 18, 2018, at 11:49:45
> hi. can you get a new shrink? not to sound too critical, but your current shrinks sounds...not so great.
#==> Yes, I can. But waiting lists are long.
> zoloft (aka: soul-off) does a number on frontal lobe function, more so than the other ssri drugs (I think...). anyway, the de-activation, mixed with a touch of stimulation, can help some people, its a nightmare for others. I'm thinking you're in the 2nd category.
>
> adding wellbutrin might help. then again...factor in drug-drug interactions, that could make the apathy worse and add more stimulation. it is a relatively common maneuver, though.
>
> maybe a non-ssri option? remeron+wellbutrin, remeron+a stimulant (if that's an option...), remeron+effexor or cymbalta....#==> Soul-off... *lol*
I have to remember that one :=)Since I am already on Sertraline, I think that augmentation is the logical way to go. Wellbutrin is interesting, but I am already quite skinny & agitated, and the sleep is not restful, so maybe something like Mirtazapine / Trazodone would be better suited? Mirtazapine has pretty potent 5HT antagonism, but I am "afraid" of the strong antihistamine-action. Some people say it has the potency of an elephant tranquilizer :=D
I would love to try the Sertraline-Nortriptyline-combo, because it is Gillman's combination of choice, but Nortriptyline is no longer available where I live :=((
Posted by SLS on April 18, 2018, at 22:13:32
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent., posted by Hordak on April 18, 2018, at 15:54:11
Hordak,
How would you go about getting these other drugs to try?
- Scott
Posted by Hordak on April 18, 2018, at 23:42:33
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent. » Hordak, posted by SLS on April 17, 2018, at 21:15:41
> > > > I am suffering from Dystymia and SAD
> > >
> > > SAD = Social Anxiety Disorder
> > > SAD = Seasonal Affective Disorder
> > >
> > > Which one?
> >
> > #==> The first one... Social Anxiety ;=)
> >
> > > My reaction to sertraline was similar to yours in some ways: brain fog; apathy; amotivation.
> >
> > #==> What did help you?
>
> We are still working on that one. My case is an unusual type of bipolar disorder that is difficult to treat. Sertraline was not a good drug for me. Apparently, it is a bad drug for you, too. There are other drugs to choose from. I do better on SNRI drugs like venlafaxine (Effexor) and duloxetine (Cymbalta). If you want to try another SSRI, escitalopram (Lexapro) is often chosen first by psychiatrists. I'm going to try vortioxetine (Trintellix) next.
>
> It is unreasonable for you to be asked to continue taking sertraline. I would recommend that you see another doctor.
>
>
> - ScottThanks for your answer. Escitalopram was indeed the next on my list.
Vortioxetine is not available where I live.
I was thinking about augmenting Sertraline with something like Mirtazapine / Nortriptyline before discontinuing it. Would be worth a try, imho.
Posted by SLS on April 19, 2018, at 9:10:48
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent., posted by Hordak on April 18, 2018, at 23:42:33
> > > > > I am suffering from Dystymia and SAD
> > > >
> > > > SAD = Social Anxiety Disorder
> > > > SAD = Seasonal Affective Disorder
> > > >
> > > > Which one?
> > >
> > > #==> The first one... Social Anxiety ;=)
> > >
> > > > My reaction to sertraline was similar to yours in some ways: brain fog; apathy; amotivation.
> > >
> > > #==> What did help you?
> >
> > We are still working on that one. My case is an unusual type of bipolar disorder that is difficult to treat. Sertraline was not a good drug for me. Apparently, it is a bad drug for you, too. There are other drugs to choose from. I do better on SNRI drugs like venlafaxine (Effexor) and duloxetine (Cymbalta). If you want to try another SSRI, escitalopram (Lexapro) is often chosen first by psychiatrists. I'm going to try vortioxetine (Trintellix) next.
> >
> > It is unreasonable for you to be asked to continue taking sertraline. I would recommend that you see another doctor.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Thanks for your answer. Escitalopram was indeed the next on my list.
>
> Vortioxetine is not available where I live.
>
> I was thinking about augmenting Sertraline with something like Mirtazapine / Nortriptyline before discontinuing it. Would be worth a try, imho.-----------------------------------------------------------
You said:
"My problem with Sertraline is: It makes me an apathetic zombie, indifferent to life and very unmotivated. I have sleep disturbances, the sleep is unrestful. I've also lost quite a bit of weight and am more agitated. Besides that I have hot-flashes and palpitations on a regular basis"
I don't think you are going to find a drug to add to sertraline that will remedy the effects you describe. It is possible that some of the brain-fog, apathy, loss of interest, and amotivation are part of the baseline illness. However, sertraline is making them worse - or perhaps has triggered them de novo. SSRIs are notorious for doing these things, but someone often finds a drug that does not produce these side effects.
Changing drugs is not usually too difficult when switching from a SSRI to another SSRI. If you choose to abort a drug trial, you can go back to sertraline at any time, but I recommend having patience and be prepared to possibly feel worse for awhile.
What were the symptoms of your depression BEFORE you began your fist treatment (baseline)? Knowing this might help as guidance to find the right treatment.
depressed mood
sadness
negative thoughts
suicidal thoughts
loss of interest
lack of motivation
impaired concentration
difficult making decisions
memory difficulties
insomnia
Sleeping too much
fatigue
weight loss / gain
sighing / air hunger
constipation
heart palpitations
irritabililty
aggitation
- Scott
Posted by bleauberry on April 19, 2018, at 13:25:33
In reply to Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent., posted by Hordak on April 17, 2018, at 17:34:06
As I read your post, the first thing I realized is that Zoloft isn't working very well for you. I don't think it is helping you enough to keep working with it. It has not shown the kind of potential you need to truly restore wellness.
That said, if you want to make it better, if it were me, I would immediately add Ritalin to it. And say bye bye to the numb stuff. Ritalin can get you engaged in life again and active. Despite being a stimulant, it can also calm you down and improve sleep. After all, they prescribe it to calm down over-excited school kids. And focus. In other words, you get engaged, you get focused, you get 'into it'. Exactly what you want to reverse dysthymia.
Many people do Adderall instead of Ritalin. I like Ritalin better for longterm.
I have no idea why doctors prescribe SSRI's for dysthymia. I mean, dysthymia is basically a milder chronic depression that looks a lot like the side effects you are complaining about. If you ask me, dysthymia is a dopamine/norepinephrine thing and has very little to do with serotonin.
Personally I feel dysthymia responds better to stimulants or nortriptyline or desipramine but not ssris and not snrsi.
I guess maybe, from a doctor's point of view, numbing out the emotions of someone who is super depressed is probably a welcome thing. At least for the short term. But for dysthymia, that's exactly the wrong thing to do. imo
imo
> Hi guys,
>
> I am suffering from Dystymia and SAD and have been taking Sertraline 50 - 75mg for over a year now. It helps with psychosomatic ailments and moderately attenuates the anxiety & fear. My problem with Sertraline is: It makes me an apathetic zombie, indifferent to life and very unmotivated. I have sleep disturbances, the sleep is unrestful. I've also lost quite a bit of weight and am more agitated. Besides that I have hot-flashes and palpitations on a regular basis. My pdoc said that I will have to live with the sides and that he can't do anything about it. He advised me that I should try to get used to it...
>
> My question: is there something that I could use to augment the Sertraline and make it all more bearable for me?
>
> Thank you very much for your help. I appreciate that!
>
> Greetings, Hordak
Posted by Hordak on April 19, 2018, at 17:46:03
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent. » Hordak, posted by SLS on April 19, 2018, at 9:10:48
> > > > > > I am suffering from Dystymia and SAD
> > > > >
> > > > > SAD = Social Anxiety Disorder
> > > > > SAD = Seasonal Affective Disorder
> > > > >
> > > > > Which one?
> > > >
> > > > #==> The first one... Social Anxiety ;=)
> > > >
> > > > > My reaction to sertraline was similar to yours in some ways: brain fog; apathy; amotivation.
> > > >
> > > > #==> What did help you?
> > >
> > > We are still working on that one. My case is an unusual type of bipolar disorder that is difficult to treat. Sertraline was not a good drug for me. Apparently, it is a bad drug for you, too. There are other drugs to choose from. I do better on SNRI drugs like venlafaxine (Effexor) and duloxetine (Cymbalta). If you want to try another SSRI, escitalopram (Lexapro) is often chosen first by psychiatrists. I'm going to try vortioxetine (Trintellix) next.
> > >
> > > It is unreasonable for you to be asked to continue taking sertraline. I would recommend that you see another doctor.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > Thanks for your answer. Escitalopram was indeed the next on my list.
> >
> > Vortioxetine is not available where I live.
> >
> > I was thinking about augmenting Sertraline with something like Mirtazapine / Nortriptyline before discontinuing it. Would be worth a try, imho.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> You said:
>
> "My problem with Sertraline is: It makes me an apathetic zombie, indifferent to life and very unmotivated. I have sleep disturbances, the sleep is unrestful. I've also lost quite a bit of weight and am more agitated. Besides that I have hot-flashes and palpitations on a regular basis"
>
> I don't think you are going to find a drug to add to sertraline that will remedy the effects you describe. It is possible that some of the brain-fog, apathy, loss of interest, and amotivation are part of the baseline illness. However, sertraline is making them worse - or perhaps has triggered them de novo. SSRIs are notorious for doing these things, but someone often finds a drug that does not produce these side effects.
>
> Changing drugs is not usually too difficult when switching from a SSRI to another SSRI. If you choose to abort a drug trial, you can go back to sertraline at any time, but I > recommend having patience and be prepared to possibly feel worse for awhile.
>
> What were the symptoms of your depression BEFORE you began your fist treatment (baseline)? Knowing this might help as guidance to find the right treatment.#==> I've been doing some reading & research and there is the hypothesis that SSRI-induced-agonism of 5HT2A / 5HT2C & 5HT3 receptors dampens the dopaminergic transmission in certain brain regions thus causing the specific SSRI side effects. Antagonism / Inverse Agonism of these receptors should theoretically resolve the problem. What medications do antagonize / inverse agonize these receptors? Well, according to my sources: Nortriptyline, Mirtazapine, Agomelatine, Trazodone, Nefazodone... and most tricyclics. That's why I was thinking about augmentation.
But I have no problem trying something different. I've been thinking about Clomipramine: seems to be a powerful versatile drug. Or alternately a more sedating SSRI, i.E. Paroxetine.
# depressed mood
# negative thoughts
# exaggerated worries about the future
# lack of motivation
# moderate anhedonia / apathy
# difficult making decisions
# insomnia & Sleeping too much
# weight loss / low appetite
# heart palpitations
# psychosomatic problems (digestive system)
# agitation
Posted by bleauberry on April 20, 2018, at 11:05:13
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent., posted by Hordak on April 19, 2018, at 17:46:03
# depressed mood
# negative thoughts
# exaggerated worries about the future
# lack of motivation
# moderate anhedonia / apathy
# difficult making decisions
# insomnia & Sleeping too much
# weight loss / low appetite
# heart palpitations
# psychosomatic problems (digestive system)
# agitationRitalin all by itself can address the first half of that list. Might even be better with the ongoing sertraline, despite sertraline hasn't been very promising.
Ritalin will worsen the weight loss and low appetite. Ginger tea or medical marijuana can help create the munchies. All of the meds are going to make this problem worse except for Mirtazapine which should make you hungry and gain weight, at least for a while. That effect seems to poop out after a while.
The heart palpitations screams Lyme disease to me. I don't know what else to tell you. When I see 'heart palpitations' I automatically assume, deduce, sand suspect lyme. If that were correct, it would also totally explain the entire list of symptoms. It would mean you need an LLMD instead of a Psychiatrist, and you would need multiple antibiotics rather than multiple psych meds. To get better, that is.
The digestive issues and agitation also fit squarely into the lyme picture.
Concerning the digestive issues, the first thing to try, and is often successful, is to change your diet to gluten free. There are many products available now that are gluten free - which simply means they are made with other kinds of flour - not wheat flour. For some unknown reason, about 50% of the American population has difficulty with gluten. It can cause all sorts of weird symptoms ranging from brain fog to digestive issues, gas, toiler probs, low energy. There are two hypothesis why. Because wheat used to be a good food. 1.Wheat has been genetically tampered with in labs - nobody really knows how that impacts us. 2.Wheat is often harvested by first killing it with RoundUP weed killer! Most people don't know that. So the whole gluten-free thing might actually be glucophate poisoning. Depending on a person's genetics and ability to clean out toxins, they may or may not have symptoms.
Some gluten-free brands are pretty good and others not. There are some very good breads, waffles, donuts, pizzas, and pastas. Some of them are so good that you cannot tell the difference from regular wheat-made products. They are all generally a dollar or two more expensive than their wheat counterparts.
In my opinion, anybody who has chronic health issues of any kind should be eating gluten free and non-GMO. You really can experience enough benefit in the quality of life to make the change and embrace it. I have not known anybody yet who did not experience benefits. There are plenty of critics however.
But whenever digestive issues of any kind are involved, you have to try gluten-free eating for at least 2 weeks to see what happens. I have seen 5 different times people respond amazing to just that one change in their lifestyle. 2 of those were suggested by their doctors.
Non-GMO is another thing to put in your grocery cart. We are told that grains modified by cutting and slicing their genes in the lab by white coats are perfectly safe. Yeah ok. Each of us has to make a personal judgement on that. My judgement is that this is an 'establishment lie' with profit in mind, or an establishment mistake they haven't yet figured out, which will be proven wrong in 5-20 years down the road. imo. It's just that when people buy products which have not been genetically modified, those people claim they feel better and symptoms improve. All kinds of symptoms. Think toxicity.
Corn is usually the most guilty grain causing health issues due to genetic tampering. With any corn product, look for 'Non-GMO' one the label.
I prefer to look at the whole person, not just one or another symptom of that person. When I look at your list of symptoms, I only see an unsuspected stealth infection from ticks. It explains the entire thing. I cannot think of anything else that does that.
Getting off sertraline isn't that easy. It involves gradual weaning and eventual withdrawals ranging from mild to heavy. I think it makes sense to add Ritalin to it. A second choice would be Adderall. For all the other symptoms, I would not look to psychiatric meds for answers.
Posted by Hordak on April 20, 2018, at 13:23:01
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent. » Hordak, posted by bleauberry on April 19, 2018, at 13:25:33
hehe, indeed! I am not that fond of Zoloft. F*ck knows why these SSRI-things are marketed for that type of depression when they cause or enhance the very symptoms people are trying to get rid of. I've been suspecting for some time now that there might be a hyperactivity component involved... it would be very interesting to try a stimulant and see how I react. I also suspect that my major problem is a Norepinephrine / Dopamine / GABA issue...
I don't want to be numb, I want to experience emotions... I want to feel. I want things to matter...
Something like Amitriptyline or Clomipramine might be interesting. Clomipramine hits Serotonin and Norepinephrine via Reuptake Inhibition and also Dopamine through 5HT-antagonism.
Sadly mos doctors nowadays are not very open-minded.
> That said, if you want to make it better, if it were me, I would immediately add Ritalin to it. And say bye bye to the numb stuff. Ritalin can get you engaged in life again and active. Despite being a stimulant, it can also calm you down and improve sleep. After all, they prescribe it to calm down over-excited school kids. And focus. In other words, you get engaged, you get focused, you get 'into it'. Exactly what you want to reverse dysthymia.
>
> Many people do Adderall instead of Ritalin. I like Ritalin better for longterm.
>
> I have no idea why doctors prescribe SSRI's for dysthymia. I mean, dysthymia is basically a milder chronic depression that looks a lot like the side effects you are complaining about. If you ask me, dysthymia is a dopamine/norepinephrine thing and has very little to do with serotonin.
>
> Personally I feel dysthymia responds better to stimulants or nortriptyline or desipramine but not ssris and not snrsi.
>
> I guess maybe, from a doctor's point of view, numbing out the emotions of someone who is super depressed is probably a welcome thing. At least for the short term. But for dysthymia, that's exactly the wrong thing to do. imo
>
> imo
Posted by Hordak on April 20, 2018, at 13:31:05
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent. » Hordak, posted by bleauberry on April 19, 2018, at 13:25:33
"I think that SOME cases of depression are caused by chemical factors in the brain, but it's not as simple as the serotonin-only theory (which was pushed hard by the SSRI manufacturers ever since Prozac was being developed and marketed). There are many other chemicals in the brain, and some cases of depression are no doubt related more to norepinephrine, dopamine, and others than to serotonin. There is almost no question that the MAOIs are more effective than the SSRIs, almost certainly because they increase not just serotonin but also norepinephrine and dopamine. Some of the tricyclics (amitriptyline, clomipramine, imipramine) are also regarded as more effective than SSRIs by clinical psychiatrists, once again because they increase norepinephrine in addition to serotonin (or more so) plus they have some dopamingeric & anticholinergic action."
"Despite these facts, it is truly amazing how widespread the idea of 'low serotonin = all cases' of depression became entrenched in our society from the 1990's onwards, not just with doctors but with the general public. The SSRI drug companies truly utilized the power of selective study publication, "education programs" (i.e. drug pushing) for doctors, and mass media articles to make "depression = low serotonin" such a widely believed theory for so long."
Posted by bleauberry on April 21, 2018, at 8:51:57
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent., posted by Hordak on April 20, 2018, at 13:31:05
I happen to disagree with the low-serotonin theory that the entire industry seems to have adopted as fact.
What makes more sense to me are theories of mood chemicals being contaminated or corrupted by environmental insults - their levels aren't deficient, their levels are polluted. Endotoxins from Lyme disease and other infections do that. The fallout from mercury in amalgam fillings can do that. Even just bad reactions to foods with gluten can do that. In all of these cases, neither the patient nor the doctor would have any clue any of this was happening. They would just assume low serotonin. Which makes no sense to me.
Another theory could be that environmental insults crowd out our mood chemicals from docking in their respective receptors. The receptors get clogged with endotoxins or heavy metals or other insults that have affinity for the receptors and compete with our mood chemicals. I know for sure this theory has some merit because Vicadin has stronger affinity for receptors than the lyme endotoxins do, and mood can be revived within hours, as it kicks out the intruders.
If mood chemicals were truly low, then we should respond immediately to increasing them. I've only seen that happen sometimes with 5htp, tryptophan or Ritalin.
Common sense says that if a drug immediately increases mood chemicals, but you have to wait 6 weeks to feel any benefit from it, then it wasn't a low-chemical situation to begin with. The add-on theories of up-regulating or down-regulating attempt to make a scientific sounding argument out of something that really goes against the grain of common sense and logic.
imo
> "I think that SOME cases of depression are caused by chemical factors in the brain, but it's not as simple as the serotonin-only theory (which was pushed hard by the SSRI manufacturers ever since Prozac was being developed and marketed). There are many other chemicals in the brain, and some cases of depression are no doubt related more to norepinephrine, dopamine, and others than to serotonin. There is almost no question that the MAOIs are more effective than the SSRIs, almost certainly because they increase not just serotonin but also norepinephrine and dopamine. Some of the tricyclics (amitriptyline, clomipramine, imipramine) are also regarded as more effective than SSRIs by clinical psychiatrists, once again because they increase norepinephrine in addition to serotonin (or more so) plus they have some dopamingeric & anticholinergic action."
>
> "Despite these facts, it is truly amazing how widespread the idea of 'low serotonin = all cases' of depression became entrenched in our society from the 1990's onwards, not just with doctors but with the general public. The SSRI drug companies truly utilized the power of selective study publication, "education programs" (i.e. drug pushing) for doctors, and mass media articles to make "depression = low serotonin" such a widely believed theory for so long."
>
> source: http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/serotonin-may-not-be-a-major-factor-in-depression-2029786/#post1090135186
Posted by SLS on April 21, 2018, at 10:59:14
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent., posted by bleauberry on April 21, 2018, at 8:51:57
> I happen to disagree with the low-serotonin theory that the entire industry seems to have adopted as fact.
I disagree with your premise. The world of neuroscience has gotten way past the serotonin theory of depression. I've had my hand on the pulse of discovery - if for no other reason but to find a cure for bipolar disorder and depression. A cure will surely be found, but I'll take remission any way I can get it. As much as you feel that I am uneducated regarding tick-borne psychiatric syndromes, I see your characterization of the entire industry to be archaic.
- Scott
Posted by Hordak on April 21, 2018, at 18:16:42
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent., posted by bleauberry on April 20, 2018, at 11:05:13
Lyme disease is some sort of borreliosis through tick bite? Can Lyme disease last many years? There are special docs for Lime disease? I would have to check what kind of doctor I need to visit in Germany... how can one diagnose lime disease? Via inflammation markers? Regarding the digestive issues: I want to visit a gastroenterologist next month to check that out. I suspect some food intolerance / histamine intolerance.
> 2.Wheat is often harvested by first killing it with RoundUP weed killer! Most people don't know that. So the whole gluten-free thing might actually be glucophate poisoning.
Yes, but from what I have read, the glucophate is so lowly dosed that it shouldn't affect humans...
Posted by bleauberry on April 23, 2018, at 11:58:31
In reply to Re: Sertraline is making me 'numb' and indifferent. » bleauberry, posted by SLS on April 21, 2018, at 10:59:14
I would just say that at the address where I live, a cure surely was found. That same cure is available to anyone else willing to grasp it and take a look. I don't understand why people ignore success stories right in front of them, but speculate on the unseen future instead. Life is too short. We are supposed to be doing more than waiting and watching. imo
I would also add that in terms of psychiatric symptoms, other doctors besides psychiatrists are restoring wellness to patients' lives in ways that the psychiatrists are not. I don't mean that in a bad way for psychiatrists. It's not their fault. The system is at fault. They are merely pawns in a flawed system that looks to profits and funding and staying out of courtrooms, more than actual cures. Other priorities and biases get in the way of actual cures.
Cure for treatment resistance depression with bipolar with schizoaffective is here today. It already exists. But only to those who want it. As my doctor told me, many will either refuse or resist - most people just want a simple answer and a prescription that works.
Having to work at getting better, having to leave your comfort zone, having to explore new territory, study new ideas, or even as simple as copying what other successful doctors are doing - none of this is acceptable to most patients. They just want white coat labs somewhere to figure out some magic, and for some new pill to hit the market that does miracles.
Meanwhile, cures happen every day to those who seek them. We can't really do that when we limit our universe of potential cures.We can't really do that when we say the only cures possible have to have something to do with mono-amines. We can't really do that when we insist that depression is low serotonin or low dopamine or a down regulated this or that, or whatever. That is way too limited of a way to look at the human body and disease. But that is just my opinion.
I can think that if we could take 10 people from psychobabble and send them to an acupuncture expert, that at least one of the babblers would experience an amazing response. They would be dumbfounded. They would not be able to explain. But 1 out of 10, I think that is likely to happen. Pure guess. It would totally not fit their preconceived ideas of sodium channels or regulation or whatever. We could do the same thing with a handful of herbs and another babbler would respond amazing. But none of the herbs were known for treating depression. And of course the Lyme thing. I just think most of us operate in too much of a limited world view and it hurts us.
> > I happen to disagree with the low-serotonin theory that the entire industry seems to have adopted as fact.
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> I disagree with your premise. The world of neuroscience has gotten way past the serotonin theory of depression. I've had my hand on the pulse of discovery - if for no other reason but to find a cure for bipolar disorder and depression. A cure will surely be found, but I'll take remission any way I can get it. As much as you feel that I am uneducated regarding tick-borne psychiatric syndromes, I see your characterization of the entire industry to be archaic.
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> - Scott
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This is the end of the thread.
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