![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on March 25, 2018, at 6:38:44
In reply to Re: Early Vs Late - Psychiatric Symptoms, posted by bleauberry on March 25, 2018, at 5:45:41
> In the clinical practice of LLMDs, they claim that only 1 out of 10 cases of tick-born illness are correctly diagnosed
The third article clearly states that only 30,000 cases of Lyme Disease are reported each year to the CDC. HOWEVER, the CDC researchers then estimated that there were actually 329,000 cases. That falls in line with the figures you quote here. Therefore, if you do the math from the numbers listed below, at most, Lyme disease would account for only 0.75% of cases of mental illness - and that assumes that every single case of Lyme results in psychiatric symptoms. Check my math. I may have made an error.
Statistics:
> > Approximately 1 in 5 adults in the U.S. 43.8 million, or 18.5% experiences mental illness in a given year.
> >
> > https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/mental-illness.shtml
> >
> > 6.9% of adults in the U.S.16 million had at least one major depressive episode in the past year.
> >
> > https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/major-depression.shtml
> >
> > ...researchers estimated that 329,000 (range 296,000-376,000) cases of Lyme disease occur annually in the United States.
> >
> > https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/21/9/15-0417_article
> >
> > Math?329,000 / 43,800,00 = 0.75%
Lyme disease accounts for less than 1% of cases of mental illness.
As a follow-up, you previously suggested that:
"In my opinion, all psychiatric patients should do a 3 month trial of Cordyceps mushroom - the dose is 6000mg and up."
Question: How does Cordyceps cure Lyme Disease?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 25, 2018, at 8:41:21
In reply to Re: Early Vs Late - Psychiatric Symptoms » bleauberry, posted by SLS on March 25, 2018, at 6:38:44
> As a follow-up, you previously suggested that:
>
> "In my opinion, all psychiatric patients should do a 3 month trial of Cordyceps mushroom - the dose is 6000mg and up."
>
> Question: How does Cordyceps cure Lyme Disease?Using Google, I was able to find only one biological experiment (using chickens) that reported that Cordyceps has antibiotic properties, despite the assertions of the many herbal promotions to be found. Is this how Cordyceps improves psychiatric syndromes? If so, to suggest that all psychiatric patients try it seems rather extreme to me given that less than 1% of MI patients have Lyme Disease.
- Scott
Posted by Jeroen on March 25, 2018, at 13:33:53
In reply to Re: Early Vs Late - Psychiatric Symptoms » bleauberry, posted by SLS on March 25, 2018, at 6:38:44
im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro biotic to protect my gut,
bleauberry the time has come to put an end to this.... please tell me exactly what dosage i might respond to 50 mg minocycline was enough for me after the herx to be cured
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 25, 2018, at 15:24:43
In reply to im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b, posted by Jeroen on March 25, 2018, at 13:33:53
hi Jeroen,
so there is no doubt that you have Lyme?
Posted by Jeroen on March 25, 2018, at 15:35:32
In reply to Re: im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b, posted by Lamdage22 on March 25, 2018, at 15:24:43
i have no idea there are other infections possible too why would i otherwise respond to anti biotics
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 25, 2018, at 15:38:07
In reply to Re: im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b, posted by Jeroen on March 25, 2018, at 15:35:32
>i have no idea there are other infections possible too why would i otherwise respond to anti biotics
That's an interesting question. Minocycline and doxycycline are thought to have certain anti-inflammatory effects, as well as being active against a wide range of micro-organisms.
Posted by SLS on March 25, 2018, at 17:09:02
In reply to Re: im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b » Jeroen, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 25, 2018, at 15:38:07
> >i have no idea there are other infections possible too why would i otherwise respond to anti biotics
>
> That's an interesting question. Minocycline and doxycycline are thought to have certain anti-inflammatory effects, as well as being active against a wide range of micro-organisms.For Lyme, I think doxycycline would be the better drug to try first. Although minocycline makes it into the brain more readily, it also has the potential to produce hyperpigmentation as a side effect.
Minocycline decreases glutamate and excitotoxicity. I don't know if doxycycline does this. Earlier work indicated that minocycline helped with schizophrenia. I haven't sufficiently researched more recent findings.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 25, 2018, at 17:42:38
In reply to im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b, posted by Jeroen on March 25, 2018, at 13:33:53
> im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro biotic to protect my gut,
>
> bleauberry the time has come to put an end to this.... please tell me exactly what dosage i might respond to 50 mg minocycline was enough for me after the herx to be curedJeroen, I think your approach is logical. Doxycycline is a good drug to treat Lyme and the inflammation that goes along with it. You might as well try it. My doctor had me take doxycycline for three months. I imagine Bleauberry would agree that this is the minimum amount of time to give doxycycline to work. It didn't help me at all to treat my bipolar depression. Minocycline did help - and it did so very quickly. I began to feel better within a few days. A friend of mine with depression experienced exactly the same course of improvement after being treatment resistant for many years. Minocycline has glutamate modulating activity. I have not seen similar reports with doxycycline. This might explain a rapid therapeutic effect for treating depression and schizophrenia.
Why did you stop taking minocycline?
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 25, 2018, at 17:44:38
In reply to Re: im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b, posted by SLS on March 25, 2018, at 17:09:02
Hi Scott,
I feel slightly irritated by the widespread beliefs which have developed in the UK about tetracyclines.
In summary, there is the impression that only doxycycline should be used for infectious disease. Minocycline has recently become frowned upon. And oxytetracycline is just used for acne.
Personally, I think the situation RE doxycycline vs minocycline is more complex.
I don't agree with the popular idea that doxycycline is universally safer than mino. A lot of people appear to find doxy much more nauseating than mino, which can interfere with treatment. Photosensitisation is also a particular problem with doxycycline. On the other hand, mino can cause dizziness, hyperpigmentation and a few rare side effects too. I really think it's better that both options are available and considered.
For CNS infection, minocycline's excellent penetration into the CNS at standard doses avoids the need to use high and nauseating doses of doxycycline (eg. 200mg twice a day).
Posted by SLS on March 25, 2018, at 18:40:25
In reply to Re: im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b » SLS, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 25, 2018, at 17:44:38
Hi, Ed.
I agree with everything you just said, but I am reluctant to recommend minocycline over doxycyline to someone because of the hyperpigmentation that can develop during long-term treatment. To treat an infection acutely, I doubt this would be a problem, though. You would know better than me. So far, there is more evidence that minocycline can treat schizophrenia than there is for doxycycline. I really don't know. I think the glutamate thing might be important.
I think it took 1.5 years for me to develop hyperpigmentation on the feet and ankles during minocycline therapy. It is not always reversible. Mine has faded for the most part.
- Scott
Posted by beckett2 on March 25, 2018, at 20:39:37
In reply to Re: im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b » Jeroen, posted by SLS on March 25, 2018, at 17:42:38
> > im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro biotic to protect my gut,
> >
> > bleauberry the time has come to put an end to this.... please tell me exactly what dosage i might respond to 50 mg minocycline was enough for me after the herx to be cured
>
> Jeroen, I think your approach is logical. Doxycycline is a good drug to treat Lyme and the inflammation that goes along with it. You might as well try it. My doctor had me take doxycycline for three months. I imagine Bleauberry would agree that this is the minimum amount of time to give doxycycline to work. It didn't help me at all to treat my bipolar depression. Minocycline did help - and it did so very quickly. I began to feel better within a few days. A friend of mine with depression experienced exactly the same course of improvement after being treatment resistant for many years. Minocycline has glutamate modulating activity. I have not seen similar reports with doxycycline. This might explain a rapid therapeutic effect for treating depression and schizophrenia.
>
> Why did you stop taking minocycline?
>
>
> - Scott
Scott, did you contract Lyme?
Posted by SLS on March 26, 2018, at 11:49:02
In reply to Re: im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b » SLS, posted by beckett2 on March 25, 2018, at 20:39:37
> > > im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro biotic to protect my gut,
> > >
> > > bleauberry the time has come to put an end to this.... please tell me exactly what dosage i might respond to 50 mg minocycline was enough for me after the herx to be cured
> >
> > Jeroen, I think your approach is logical. Doxycycline is a good drug to treat Lyme and the inflammation that goes along with it. You might as well try it. My doctor had me take doxycycline for three months. I imagine Bleauberry would agree that this is the minimum amount of time to give doxycycline to work. It didn't help me at all to treat my bipolar depression. Minocycline did help - and it did so very quickly. I began to feel better within a few days. A friend of mine with depression experienced exactly the same course of improvement after being treatment resistant for many years. Minocycline has glutamate modulating activity. I have not seen similar reports with doxycycline. This might explain a rapid therapeutic effect for treating depression and schizophrenia.
> >
> > Why did you stop taking minocycline?
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> Scott, did you contract Lyme?I'm pretty sure not. However, I haven't had a biological test for it. My doctor isn't a huge believer in their utility to diagnose Lyme. He prescribed for me a three-month course of doxycycline just in case I had it. He is currently on a speaking tour about the psychiatric syndromes that Lyme can manifest as. He's pretty good at recognizing and treating Lyme. At the moment, he is focusing on the ability of Lyme to produce suicidal and homicidal impulses.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5481283/
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 26, 2018, at 13:08:24
In reply to Re: im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b » ed_uk2010, posted by SLS on March 25, 2018, at 18:40:25
Hi Scott,
>To treat an infection acutely, I doubt this would be a problem, though.
I'd say the main reason minocycline is usally less preferred to doxycycline in acute infections is because it can cause vertigo. Apparently, vertigo is much more common in women, and can be quite severe, so it makes sense to choose doxycycline instead. I do agree with this, but I think it's important to retain minocycline as an option.
I believe you need at least 3 weeks of treatment, and usually much more, to cause the pigmentation problems. Some of the other more serious side effects also take a while to develop.
Posted by SLS on March 26, 2018, at 13:49:35
In reply to Re: im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b » SLS, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 26, 2018, at 13:08:24
> Hi Scott,
>
> >To treat an infection acutely, I doubt this would be a problem, though.
>
> I'd say the main reason minocycline is usally less preferred to doxycycline in acute infections is because it can cause vertigo. Apparently, vertigo is much more common in women, and can be quite severe, so it makes sense to choose doxycycline instead. I do agree with this, but I think it's important to retain minocycline as an option.
>
> I believe you need at least 3 weeks of treatment, and usually much more, to cause the pigmentation problems. Some of the other more serious side effects also take a while to develop.
>I can't remember the dosage of minocycline I was on, but it took over a year for hyperpigmentation to develop.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 26, 2018, at 15:28:35
In reply to Re: im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b » ed_uk2010, posted by SLS on March 26, 2018, at 13:49:35
Scott,
Although this isn't the right thread... I just wondered where you are up to with the possibility of starting vortioxetine.
Posted by SLS on March 26, 2018, at 20:51:53
In reply to Re: im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b » SLS, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 26, 2018, at 15:28:35
> Scott,
>
> Although this isn't the right thread... I just wondered where you are up to with the possibility of starting vortioxetine.
>Hi, Ed.
Thanks for asking. It is my intention to begin to taper Parnate at the end of May. I will be away for a few weeks, and I need to function. I anticipate deteriorating upon discontinuing Parnate. I hope that the other 4 drugs I'm taking prevent me from relapsing all the way to my untreated baseline. I will try vortioxetine next. I remain guarded in my optimism. However, it is a fairly new drug that I haven't yet tried. If it doesn't help, I will try Effexor again and hope that it once again produces a partial response. Perhaps it will help more now than it did before, as I am taking a different set of augmenting medications.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 26, 2018, at 21:01:05
In reply to Re: im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b » ed_uk2010, posted by SLS on March 26, 2018, at 20:51:53
Ah, I see why you're waiting then. Stopping Parnate is quite an undertaking, so you have to time it well.
I will remain hopeful about vortioxetine. I think it's worth trying. And fortunately, if it doesn't work out, it should be easy to switch to venlafaxine.
Posted by bleauberry on March 30, 2018, at 6:35:04
In reply to Cordyceps for Lyme Disease?, posted by SLS on March 25, 2018, at 8:41:21
I haven't had time to pull together Cordyceps highlights. But I can tell you it is not used in Lyme as an antibiotic. It has multiple other purposes. I think if it has any antibiotic efficacy at all it is probably limited and weak.
Google is really not the place to be because you can't read the entirety of any of these 3 important books on google. Google is also oriented politically to the far left and they do censor information in search engines - no matter what political side you belong to, you won't get the full picture from google. In this divided political environment, Google and Facebook are operated by far-left political views - not saying that is good or bad, it is just is, and has to be taken into account. A great deal of pertinent info is in books but not on google:
1. Healing Lyme, Stephen Buhner
2. Why Can't I Get Better, Horowitz
3. Lyme disease and Modern Chinese Medicine, Dr. Qingcai Zhang, Zhang Clinic, NYC.(I love that last book because he marries Eastern medicine and Western medicine to cure people of Lyme, psychiatric, and Hepatitis)
> > As a follow-up, you previously suggested that:
> >
> > "In my opinion, all psychiatric patients should do a 3 month trial of Cordyceps mushroom - the dose is 6000mg and up."
> >
> > Question: How does Cordyceps cure Lyme Disease?
>
> Using Google, I was able to find only one biological experiment (using chickens) that reported that Cordyceps has antibiotic properties, despite the assertions of the many herbal promotions to be found. Is this how Cordyceps improves psychiatric syndromes? If so, to suggest that all psychiatric patients try it seems rather extreme to me given that less than 1% of MI patients have Lyme Disease.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by bleauberry on March 30, 2018, at 6:50:55
In reply to im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b, posted by Jeroen on March 25, 2018, at 13:33:53
In your environment I actually think you will do better in the long run by using raw garlic as your #1 tool, with Doxy as your #2 tool - the reason is because Borellia morphs into 3 different forms when under threat - its normal form, its L form, and its cystic form - Doxy will push them from normal into cystic - and Doxy doesn't work on cystic - but garlic does. We need to cover all 3 versions of the bacteria but Doxy only does 1.
Garlic is a very powerful antibiotic for you. You just need to do it raw toward the end of a meal, pulse it with days on and days off, and plan on seeing a better 2019 than 2018. All the spices you can handle are good too - rosemary, thyme, cinnamon, cayenne.
Doxy by itself could actually make things worse in the longterm without a second agent on board. If you can get a second antibiotic then go for Flagyl - it will hit the cystic and L forms. But none of these are particularly effective against the common co-infections Bartonella or Babesia. But garlic is.
In terms of the probiotic, anything less than 100billion is really not going to make a huge difference. Smaller amounts are obviously better than nothing and highly encouraged. Whatever you can get is good. 100billion costs about $69 a bottle so I don't know if they are going to let you do that much.
Do not underestimate the power and potential of raw garlic! (Cooking or heat destroys the anti-microbial power)
Just to give you an idea for perspective -
I am in a relapse or a new infection. This one is different than before. It is mostly anxiety and tremors. I currently have it under control and feel a lot better. But I will have to take my antibiotics and herbs for at least another 2 months to make sure it sticks.But to achieve that I am taking these:
Doxy 400mg - (not the common 200mg dose - 400mg is way better)
Flagyl on weekends only - a pulsing tactic - Flagyl is a cyst buster
Rifampin twice a day for intracellular and Bartonella
Ceftin for 2 of the 3 forms.I also am taking an anti-parasitic tincture with Wormwood, Cloves and Black Walnut Hulls because my doctor believes I have Bartonella in my intestines hiding out inside of parasites. Long story to explain that. But it makes total sense.
The point is - I am taking 4 antibiotics - and a bunch of herbs and supplements - to get well and stay well - garlic may be the most wide spectrum potent tool you have access to that has the potential to possibly duplicate that - unless you think you can get 3 antibiotics at a time.
> im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro biotic to protect my gut,
>
> bleauberry the time has come to put an end to this.... please tell me exactly what dosage i might respond to 50 mg minocycline was enough for me after the herx to be cured
Posted by Jeroen on March 30, 2018, at 7:08:58
In reply to Re: im going to ask psydoc for doxycycline and a pro b » Jeroen, posted by bleauberry on March 30, 2018, at 6:50:55
im going for doxy and your advice bleauberry all AP have failed
the only good thing was Sarcosine but i had to quit it i had some side effects but it healed damage on my glutamate system from Lamictal that i once ordered from the internet :(
im glad im better and i will be healed thanks to your help
Ed do am affraid of switching beta blockers ...
Posted by SLS on March 30, 2018, at 14:33:46
In reply to Re: Cordyceps for Lyme Disease? » SLS, posted by bleauberry on March 30, 2018, at 6:35:04
> I haven't had time to pull together Cordyceps highlights.
Can you name the top 3 things that Cordyceps does to treat the Lyme infection or its symptoms? Perhaps you can limit your answers to 1-3 sentences for each. I doubt a whole book would be necessary for you to write here.
I appreciate your desire to teach people based on your several years of reading books. In fact, it might even frustrate you to interact with people who haven't read them for themselves. I feel the same way. After 35 years, I've come by quite a bit of teachable knowledge. It would take a few books for me to impart to you the facts I have discovered, the various theories derived from those facts, and a few of my own - just for the fun of it. I understand that providing an answer to one question can seem like a daunting, although unnecessary task.
Thanks for the book suggestions.
Politically speaking, is Lyme Disease treatment with antibiotics a left issue or is it a right issue? I should think that the treatment of disease with herbs would be supported more rigorously by the left than by the right. What do you think? Why would a left-leaning search engine filter-out left-leaning treatment paradigms? I am somewhat naive, but I try very hard not to be cynical. Cynicism is bad for you health.
https://www.google.com/search?&q=Healing+Lyme%2C+Stephen+Buhner&oq=Healing+Lyme%2C+Stephen+Buhner
https://www.google.com/search?&q=Why+Can%27t+I+Get+Better%2C+Horowitz
https://www.google.com/search?&q=Lyme+disease+and+Modern+Chinese+Medicine%2C+Dr.+Qingcai+Zhang
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 30, 2018, at 15:02:33
In reply to Bleauberry and Ed thanks for your help, posted by Jeroen on March 30, 2018, at 7:08:58
>afraid of switching beta blockers...
Sorry to hear that J. Switching meds can be an anxious time, but if you're feeling dizzy on nebivolol, it's really something you should speak to your doc about.
What are you afraid of in particular?
Posted by bleauberry on April 9, 2018, at 13:48:43
In reply to Re: Cordyceps for Lyme Disease? » bleauberry, posted by SLS on March 30, 2018, at 14:33:46
> Can you name the top 3 things that Cordyceps does to treat the Lyme infection or its symptoms? Perhaps you can limit your answers to 1-3 sentences for each. I doubt a whole book would be necessary for you to write here.
The primary thing is that it stops the cascades involved in inflammation processes, regardless of the cause.
And it acts as an agonist/antagonist for hormones - it can raise low cortisol and lower high cortisol - depending on what needs to be done - because of the combined agonism/antagonism. I think many psych patients are not aware how much hormones play into their symptoms.
>
>
> Thanks for the book suggestions.for psych patients truly wanting to get better and use every tool they can find to accomplish that, I would say these books are mandatory not suggestions. They really are that good.
>
> Politically speaking, is Lyme Disease treatment with antibiotics a left issue or is it a right issue? I should think that the treatment of disease with herbs would be supported more rigorously by the left than by the right. What do you think? Why would a left-leaning search engine filter-out left-leaning treatment paradigms? I am somewhat naive, but I try very hard not to be cynical. Cynicism is bad for you health.Well you certainly cannot trust search engines because most of them are extremely biased. Lyme is not a left or right issue. I would describe it as academia-establishment versus real-world clinicians.
The academia people get all bogged down in clinical trials and scientific explanations - which are usually deeply flawed when you look closely at the details and fine print of how those studies were actually executed, choice of samples, who funded them, and who did the subjective summaries of what it all means.
The academia-establishment folks do extremely well with mechanical medicine - but not mystery medicine. Lyme is definitely in the mystery column. Being the great imitator, able to duplicate almost any cluster of symptoms you can think of and be misdiagnosed, it does not lend itself at all to the ways American science organizes the way it does studies. The individual variables from one person to the next are too great.
The real world clinicians - such as the 2 doctors who ended my treatment resistant depression - base their treatments on the successes/failures/discoveries they make in their own private practices, and add to that with further study at seminars and books - academia-establishment pretty much ignore what's happening in the real world and focus only on what their white coat lab guys concluded.
It's sort of like the divide with amalgam fillings. You've got academia telling you that a minute amount of the 2nd most toxic substance on earth in your mouth is ok. But in the real world we see people's symptoms improve dramatically with the removal of amalgams.
So you have to choose your camp and go with it. I am obviously not in the academia-establishment camp, though I was the entire time I used to be here while on psych meds. I didn't really start getting better until I went to real-world docs who knew a bunch of stuff the lab coats didn't know. And it is still that way today.
imo
Some patients improve greatly with herbs. They helped pave the way for me. But many people find that herbs alone are not quite enough to get over the hump. Antibiotics - usually 3 at a time - are often required. It's hard. I don't want anyone to think it's as easy as going out and getting some antibiotics and then wham your depression goes away. It takes months of cleaning up the infections and inflammation and getting hormones and such back into balance.
For me that was 3 years. I didn't even see any psychiatric improvement until after 1 year. As I look back now though, I see that 3 years was a very small investment compared to the 20+ years I had put into my psychiatrists without good results. My psychiatric journey was maybe around $120,000 total with not much to show for it. Lyme treatment that gave a lot to show was maybe around $10,000.
>
> https://www.google.com/search?&q=Healing+Lyme%2C+Stephen+Buhner&oq=Healing+Lyme%2C+Stephen+Buhner
>
> https://www.google.com/search?&q=Why+Can%27t+I+Get+Better%2C+Horowitz
>
> https://www.google.com/search?&q=Lyme+disease+and+Modern+Chinese+Medicine%2C+Dr.+Qingcai+Zhang
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 12, 2018, at 14:02:05
In reply to Re: Cordyceps for Lyme Disease?, posted by bleauberry on April 9, 2018, at 13:48:43
I think i am not going to take it. I dont want to get serotonin syndrome
Posted by bleauberry on April 13, 2018, at 10:14:30
In reply to Cordiceps is an MAOI, posted by Lamdage22 on April 12, 2018, at 14:02:05
> I think i am not going to take it. I dont want to get serotonin syndrome
I doubt seriously serotonin syndrome results. It is just not that strong or targeted.
It would be interesting to do search PubMed and the internet to see if anyone has ever overdosed or encountered serotonin syndrome on Cordyceps. I just did a quick 5 minute search and found nothing.
I would strongly doubt it could play a role in serotonin syndrome. But anything can happen. Crazy things happen.
The sad part is that we really can't ask our doctor because they probably never heard of it.. ..and the things they have heard about aren't exactly working very well....right? Some better than others.
Not an easy fight.
This is the end of the thread.
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