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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bleauberry on March 9, 2018, at 14:39:43
Those who know me know that I have been a member of this site for over 2 decades, maybe 3+. Long time. They know that I suffered for years and years with treatment resistant depression. They know I got better with Lyme treatment but not with psychiatrist treatment. That's why I think I need to write a book "WHAT EVERY PSYCHIATRIST NEEDS TO KNOW ABOUT TICKS".
So I had 20-25 years of deep depression, a back pack of failed meds and herbs and supplements, every med you can think of except maybe one or two, and then a Nurse Practitioner said she thought maybe it was Lyme, I got treated for lyme with meds and herbs, 3 years later my depression was totally gone. It did not even start to respond until after a full year of treatment. (and you see people here expecting results within 6 weeks?)
Then recently I had a relapse. Currently back on herbs. Depression is gone. I have some other minor issues but psychiatrically I am much better.
So in case anyone is wondering what remission looks like, here it is:
Hawthorne - for heart health under stress
Grapefruit seed extract - prevents biofilms, antimicrobial
EGCG - green tea extract stops cytosine cascades
Vit C large doses - helps everything
Fish oil - helps everything, anti-inflammatory
Orac Greens - all the magic of Mother Nature that we never eat
Phyto-biotic - berberine for antimicrobial, antiinflammaroty
Glutamine - for gut health
Rhodiola Rosea - for depression, anxiety, antimicrobial, energy, and anti inflammation.
Cordyceps - microbial and antiinflammation
Chinese Skullcap - anti anxiety, antimicrobial, anti inflammation
Japanese Knotweed - antimicrobial, antiinflammation, anti toxin
Houttuynia - antimicrobial, antiinflammation
Plantioxidant - a vitamin C product made of dozens of different plants we never get in our diet
Andrographis - antimicrobial, antiinflammation
N.A.C. - precursors to Glutathione, anti-toxin
Vinpocetine - anti brain fog, improved mental
CO-Q10 - heart health under stress, antitoxin
Life Extension Two-Per-Day professional vitamin/mineral with great cofactors not found in cheap vitamins.
Milk Thistle - liver, antimicrobial, anti inflammation, antitoxin
Vitamin D 5000 - everything
DHEA 25 - hormonal support, antidepressantWhat is super important here is that each one of these has multiple functions and benefits, dozens or hundreds in one, unlike meds which are very limited in scope, and the herbs tend to synergize and turbocharge each other in strongly complimentary ways. For example, choose one, say Andrographis, it takes several chapters of a book to cover all of the amazing things this plant does inside the human body - many of them tied to mood.
I spend about $100 a week, or $400 a month. I spent a lot more than that when I was on psychiatric medicines. The difference is that I spend less and I get great results. As would almost anybody who tried the same approach.
You do no have to have a diagnosis of Lyme to cure your depression with Lyme treatment. You just need the three pillars - antimicrobial, anti inflammation, and antitoxin.
The book Healing Lyme by Stephen Harrod Buhner is probably the best anti-depression book on the market even though it is not an anti-depression book. You follow the things suggested in the book and you get better. Very high percentages of responders, especially psychiatric, with or without a diagnosis.
I understand some people resist anything that doesn't come straight from their doctor or from the CDC. That's fine. I share this information for those of you who are seeking better results to your psych meds or frustrated with years of failures.
From a medicine point of view, I can tell you, if I needed help, I would turn immediately to Ritalin. Most people do better with Adderall but with me it is Ritalin. The antidepressants don't help a lot of people very much. The stimulants do. My nurse says she prescribes Ritalin more often than any other med for a simple reason - it helps more people with more issues than anything else on the market. It is the fastest way to end depression in elderly, usually in hours or days.
Second to stimulants I like antipsychotics, Zyprexa favored. That's because they block so many receptors indiscriminately that it can actually help by blocking toxins and debris from hitting those receptors. It has nothing to do with serotonin, dopamine, whatever. It has to do with toxins.
Anyway, hope this helps somebody on their journey to wellness.
Posted by Ruuudy on March 9, 2018, at 19:01:29
In reply to What Remission Looks Like, posted by bleauberry on March 9, 2018, at 14:39:43
> Vit C large doses - helps everything
antimicrobial, anti inflammation
> N.A.C. - precursors to Glutathione, anti-toxin
> Anyway, hope this helps somebody on their journey to wellness.Thanks for your post, Bleauberry!
Very helpful indeed!How many pills or capsules do you have to swallow for all those?
I would probably assume you split them up into taking at various points throughout the day.How much Vitamin C are you taking daily?
And how much NAC are you taking?Sincerely,
Rudy
Posted by SLS on March 9, 2018, at 19:49:06
In reply to What Remission Looks Like, posted by bleauberry on March 9, 2018, at 14:39:43
Depressions can look very different, but remissions generally look the same. Remission is remission, regardless of how it is achieved. It is the how that is difficult to establish for each case.
While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I don't believe that it is productive to assert that what works for you will work for everyone else. Depression is a syndrome that is generated by heterogeneous etiologies.
I was in complete remission for the better part of a year while taking two medications. Then, my doctor at the time asked me to discontinue them. I relapsed after two months. By the time the same treatment was instituted, I was no longer responsive to it. I often wonder where I would be had I continued with the original treatment uninterrupted.
I'm glad that you feel better.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 10, 2018, at 1:59:40
In reply to Re: What Remission Looks Like » bleauberry, posted by SLS on March 9, 2018, at 19:49:06
Hi Scott,
which two meds were that?
Posted by bleauberry on March 10, 2018, at 3:52:33
In reply to Re: What Remission Looks Like, posted by Ruuudy on March 9, 2018, at 19:01:29
Good questions. Capsules. Each item is 1 to 6 per day, most of them b.id. or t.i.d. Most of the items and doses come right out of the book Healing Lyme.
When I first started I couldn't even handle one capsule of vitamin C, I was so sick and so depressed.
> > Vit C large doses - helps everything
> antimicrobial, anti inflammation
> > N.A.C. - precursors to Glutathione, anti-toxin
> > Anyway, hope this helps somebody on their journey to wellness.
>
> Thanks for your post, Bleauberry!
> Very helpful indeed!
>
> How many pills or capsules do you have to swallow for all those?
> I would probably assume you split them up into taking at various points throughout the day.
>
> How much Vitamin C are you taking daily?
> And how much NAC are you taking?
>
> Sincerely,
> Rudy
>
Posted by bleauberry on March 10, 2018, at 4:00:40
In reply to Re: What Remission Looks Like » bleauberry, posted by SLS on March 9, 2018, at 19:49:06
According to the two M.D.s who rescued me from treatment resistant depression, and the one Nurse Practitioner and different M.D. now, 9 out of 10 psychiatric patients respond to the same treatment I did....but there are only half a dozen or so M.D.s in each state who are trained on this stuff, tons of scientific research on each item, but not on using them to treat psychiatric symptoms. It's a holistic approach, a blanket approach, shotgun approach, not a precision strike.
I hope you can reach remission again!
> Depressions can look very different, but remissions generally look the same. Remission is remission, regardless of how it is achieved. It is the how that is difficult to establish for each case.
>
> While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I don't believe that it is productive to assert that what works for you will work for everyone else. Depression is a syndrome that is generated by heterogeneous etiologies.
>
> I was in complete remission for the better part of a year while taking two medications. Then, my doctor at the time asked me to discontinue them. I relapsed after two months. By the time the same treatment was instituted, I was no longer responsive to it. I often wonder where I would be had I continued with the original treatment uninterrupted.
>
> I'm glad that you feel better.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on March 10, 2018, at 4:32:23
In reply to Re: What Remission Looks Like, posted by Lamdage22 on March 10, 2018, at 1:59:40
> Hi Scott,
>
> which two meds were that?Parnate 60 mg/day combined with desipramine 150 mg/day.
This combination was like a bomb. I had been on each separately previously, but the combination of the two was definitely synergistic. Initially, I was in a fog, felt "wired", and couldn't sleep at all. The fogginess and wired feeling eventually disappeared, and I began to feel better beginning after 3 weeks. The improvement was was gradual, and it took about 2.5 months to attain full remission. Right now, when I try the same two drugs, I feel none of these things. I guess my brain has accommodated to the many drug exposures that have insulted it and become non-responsive.
Right now, I am partially improved on the following regime:
Parnate 60 mg/day
nortriptyline 100 mg/day
Lamictal 300 mg/day
lithium 300 mg/day
Abilify 15 mg/day
prazosin 15 mg/dayI will be discontinuing the Parnate and adding Trintellix soon.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 10, 2018, at 6:03:27
In reply to Re: What Remission Looks Like » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on March 10, 2018, at 4:32:23
Thats a bummer, scott. I once was psychosis free on 200mg Seroquel. Go figure...
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 10, 2018, at 6:06:58
In reply to Re: What Remission Looks Like » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on March 10, 2018, at 4:32:23
I made lifestyle changes you would like, bleauberry...
Lots of raw fruits and vegetables and protein and healthy oils.
Posted by Jeroen on March 10, 2018, at 15:52:12
In reply to What Remission Looks Like, posted by bleauberry on March 9, 2018, at 14:39:43
Hey buddy,
I believe you. i think i have a tick sh*t thing going on too i spend a lot of time in the woods while i was a kid and older too before hell broke loose.
i had red spots on my head the barber said before i got sick.
Should i try doxycyclinemy psychiatrist cannot help me anymore
and we all know minocycline 50 mg even such a low dose cured me for weeks not taking it even i was cured after taking only 3 doses but quit it due to hallucinations, severe depression
please help me buddy im waiting for your advice on doxy or any new therapy i might try
Posted by Jeroen on March 10, 2018, at 15:53:29
In reply to Bleauberry please help me, posted by Jeroen on March 10, 2018, at 15:52:12
i quote the initial side effects of mino was that sorry about my concentration and mood, is low
Posted by bleauberry on March 12, 2018, at 15:25:20
In reply to Bleauberry please help me, posted by Jeroen on March 10, 2018, at 15:52:12
Hi Jereon. Great to talk with you again!
Hey I have a question. Can you get access to herbal supplements? Can you order herbs on the internet? Do you have money to buy them?
The reason I ask is because if you could get your hands on several specific herbs, I would list them for you, and you took them starting at very low doses, ramping up to higher doses over months, and plan on taking these as part of your regular routine for several years. If you can do that, you have real solid potential of erasing significant amounts of your psychiatric symptoms.
I do not believe MIno by itself is going to be curative. All it is going to do is kill a certain spectrum of bacteria. But there are other issues going on and other organisms. If you ever got bit by a tick, which it sounds likely, you were potentially exposed to Borrelia, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Epstein Barr virus, Babesia, and a few more pathogenic monsters. Mino will deal very well with Borrelia but not the others. Mycoplasma is a cell-wall deficient bacteria, just a blob, changes shape, and likes to live inside of our blood cells. Most antibiotics work through the cell wall so they won't work on Mycoplasma very well. But some herbs do really well. Babesiosis is from a parasite similar to the Malaria parasite and is treated with malaria drugs and herbs.
All of them cause psychiatric symptoms because their poop, pee, and excretions - toxins - have affinity for our brain receptors. I know for sure they have affinity for opioid receptors in the brain because one dose of Vicodin, which has stronger affinity, will totally knock them out of the receptor and you feel great within hours. I have experienced that dozens of times. Scientific studies demonstrate how all sorts of odd-ball toxic chemicals from infections hit the brain. So it is no wonder we get brain symptoms and psychiatric drugs fall short. They do nothing to address the actual problems.
You can get a lot better with just several choices of herbal capsules/pills and no medicines at all. I would stay with psych meds that help you. Don't give up on them until you feel progress which would be months miminum. I didn't even experience improvement in my own treatment until after a full year! And it was 3 years total until remission! The body heals itself at about the same rate as your fingernails grow. I view it as sort of like peeling layers of an onion. Every month is another layer.
Red spots are commonly Bartonella and Babesia. Borrelia more often does rashes, usually the bullseye rash, but only half the time. Many people never get a rash or spots and therefore never suspect the actual problem.
If you can get prescriptions for antibiotics this is a really, really good combo that will cover a wide spectrum of all of those organisms I mentioned - Azithromycin AND Rifampin combo. Amazing. Especially amazing for psychiatry. This is the combo that turned the corner for me a few years ago. And again just a couple weeks ago with a relapse. That combo knocked the relapse down in 2 weeks, after failing at everything else for 3 months! So if you can get Azithor and Rifampin, cool! Doxy with Rifampin is also very good for psychiatry, but Azithro with Rifampin is a notch better.
The reason I say start at super low doses and plan on a very long time frame is so you can avoid the harsh Herxheimer reactions. That is a fancy name for bacterial die-off, which overwhelms the body with inflammation and debris from so much death and body parts. That is why you felt good initially on Mino, but then you crashed and got worse. That was likely a "Herx" - too much die-off too fast. I was so sick when I first started treatment my doc started me on 25mg of Mino and that felt too strong! :-) But months later I was doing 200mg no problem.
So two things to think about:
1. 3 to 5 herbal supplements ordered on the internet (I can supply you with the sources, brands, doses, cost, everything)
2. Rifampin/Azithro combo first choice, or Rifampin/Doxy combo.
3. This is not the same as psychiatry. I think it works tons better than psychiatry. But it takes time. Months. Maybe a couple years. Plan on that. Make it your goal to get better, know that your enemy is tough, and know that you can beat the enemy!
> Hey buddy,
>
> I believe you. i think i have a tick sh*t thing going on too i spend a lot of time in the woods while i was a kid and older too before hell broke loose.
>
> i had red spots on my head the barber said before i got sick.
>
>
> Should i try doxycycline
>
> my psychiatrist cannot help me anymore
>
> and we all know minocycline 50 mg even such a low dose cured me for weeks not taking it even i was cured after taking only 3 doses but quit it due to hallucinations, severe depression
>
> please help me buddy im waiting for your advice on doxy or any new therapy i might try
Posted by bleauberry on March 12, 2018, at 15:41:40
In reply to initial side effect of minocycline, posted by Jeroen on March 10, 2018, at 15:53:29
I don't think you had Minocycline side effects. If you were complaining of loose stools or nausea, then yeah that would be side effects.
I believe the 'side effects' you experienced were actually part of a "Herxheimer" reaction. Which is bacterial die-off, too much, too fast. The body gets overwhelmed with death and debris that your liver and kidneys and lymph glands cannot clean out fast enough. And in fact there can be so much debris, body parts, and such, that the lymph glands get clogged up and then you really feel like crap. (An herb called Red Root unclogs them). This is why your depression and everything got so much worse on Mino.
In the real world we stop treatment for a few days and then resume, or we go to a lower dose, and try going higher later. Herxing can be really bad and even suicidal. We've all heard of people going crazy, losing it, or committing suicide, shortly after starting an antibiotic. That is a Herx and it is avoidable with proper management of treatment.
Herxheimer reactions make getting better a long process. Because if you ramp up doses too fast, you get sicker with too much die-off, which basically feels like your original symptoms, except worse, and some new symptoms as well.
I am not at all surprised that you felt good shortly after starting Mino and then you crashed hard. That is a picture-perfect presentation of how Lyme disease is diagnosed by LLMDs (Lyme Literate Meds), and what it feels like to have a Herx.
Because lab tests are so terribly inaccurate, the only accurate diagnosis is a clinical one based on presentation of symptoms and history. My doctors say that if psych symptoms are present, then the odds are automatically 9 out of 10 that you have a tick born disease. That's because 9 out 10 get better with treatment with antibiotics or herbs. But they came in with years and years of psychiatric care which didn't work on the 9 out of 10 with psych symptoms. Lyme treatment did - even if they didn't have Lyme!
What I am saying is that based on your own words and your own story, you have already done the diagnosis and it was positive for Lyme. You felt great shortly after starting, and then you crashed hard. THAT is a solid diagnosis. There is a perfect scientific explanation of why that pattern happens. If you would like to hear it let me know.
And you have already experienced what Herxheimer reaction feels like. And you have felt what it is like to feel good! To get to the point you feel good all the time will take months of persistent treatment and probably dozens of Herx's, but we can keep them mild and few with low doses and slow titration.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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