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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zonked on April 15, 2016, at 20:13:27
Hey guys,
All is pretty well. I'm finding CBT and MCBT (mindfulness-based cognitive therapy) and DBT pretty effective for my anxiety.
It's my decision to ask my doctor, in a week or so, to taper off Klonopin. Because I am dually-diagnosed and now will be seeing an addiction specialist doctor, I am sure he would be supportive.
I want as little "pain" as possible with maximal gain. Abrupt is not only medically but psychologically dangerous. I'm down to 0.5 twice a day again, after a period of low anxiety I moved into a sober living house I actually love, but got me back up to 0.5 twice a day from as many as 3-4 days without a dose.
How would you do this? The abrupt 1-week off benzo taper doesn't appeal to me - that was tried against my will when I had a benzophobic doctor and other insurance once and I felt like screaming inside and every waking and sleeping moment was a panic attack. Yuck.
I know Klonopin comes in liquid form, so dosages can be precise. I would prefer to stay on Klonopin as Valium has an undeserved "bad rap" in the addiction community...
What do you guys think of the Ashton protocol?
If anyone's done this, how did you do it without going, well, nuts?
Meds are:
Nardil 90mg/day (works reliably as ever!)
Klonopin 0.5mg/day
TODAY: D/C doxylamine succinate 25-50mg sleep
(developed a tolerance)
START: 3mg melatonin extended release qhs insomnia
**Prazosin 2mg** SLS if you happen to catch this... I wonder if an increase in prazosin would positively impact sleep quality.
ty,
z
Posted by SLS on April 16, 2016, at 6:48:54
In reply to how would you taper off klonopin .5, also praz ?s, posted by zonked on April 15, 2016, at 20:13:27
Hi, Z.
> **Prazosin 2mg
>
> ** SLS if you happen to catch this... I wonder if an increase in prazosin would positively impact sleep quality.It might help for a few days, but my experience with prazosin is that I still have sleep difficulties, but much of the problem might revolve around sleep hygeine. I fall asleep okay, but tend to wake up during the night. You might experience the drug differently. I restarted prazosin over a week ago and am presently taking 30 mg/day for bipolar depression. 2 mg is too small a dosage except perhaps for people taking it for an acute event PTSD - and then only to mitigate nightmares. My guess is that for developmental PTSD or complex trauma, higher dosages are needed and must be taken 2-3 times a day. For me, prazosin acts as a potent and very clean antidepressant. It may very well be the key that unlocks the door of my prison cell.
- Scott
Posted by J Kelly on April 16, 2016, at 7:56:13
In reply to how would you taper off klonopin .5, also praz ?s, posted by zonked on April 15, 2016, at 20:13:27
> Hey guys,
>
> All is pretty well. I'm finding CBT and MCBT (mindfulness-based cognitive therapy) and DBT pretty effective for my anxiety.Hi Zonked that's great!
>
> It's my decision to ask my doctor, in a week or so, to taper off Klonopin. Because I am dually-diagnosed and now will be seeing an addiction specialist doctor, I am sure he would be supportive.
>
> I want as little "pain" as possible with maximal gain. Abrupt is not only medically but psychologically dangerous. I'm down to 0.5 twice a day again, after a period of low anxiety I moved into a sober living house I actually love, but got me back up to 0.5 twice a day from as many as 3-4 days without a dose.
>
> How would you do this? The abrupt 1-week off benzo taper doesn't appeal to me - that was tried against my will when I had a benzophobic doctor and other insurance once and I felt like screaming inside and every waking and sleeping moment was a panic attack. Yuck.I would definitely avoid this kind of w/d from Klonopin. I weaned SLOWLY down from 3mg day to .5mg without much trouble. It was the last .5mg that caused me a lot of problems. I'm back on it at .5mg per day. When I do try to taper off that last .5mg I will go VERY VERY slowly.
>
> I know Klonopin comes in liquid form, so dosages can be precise. I would prefer to stay on Klonopin as Valium has an undeserved "bad rap" in the addiction community...I like the idea of tapering off using the liquid form. That way you can reduce my minute amounts.
>
> What do you guys think of the Ashton protocol?
>
> If anyone's done this, how did you do it without going, well, nuts?
>
> Meds are:
> Nardil 90mg/day (works reliably as ever!)
> Klonopin 0.5mg/day
> TODAY: D/C doxylamine succinate 25-50mg sleep
> (developed a tolerance)
> START: 3mg melatonin extended release qhs insomnia
> **Prazosin 2mgI, too, take Nardil and Klonopin.
Good luck tapering off Klonopin. I hope you'll post how you successfully do it :)
Jade
Posted by zonked on April 16, 2016, at 8:36:59
In reply to Re: how would you taper off klonopin .5, also praz ?s, posted by SLS on April 16, 2016, at 6:48:54
>>
It [Prazosin] may very well be the key that unlocks the door of my prison cell.
>And that is priceless man!
And I never would have heard of Prazosin at such doses if it wasn't for you here. If I ever start to go into the abyss, it's something to bring up with the doc.
BTW: Melatonin was very effective. It could be coincidence, but I could have sworn I woke up and it was at -the exact moment- of daylight beginning, here. I had to take 9mg which I'll report to my shrink next week, probably because I had coffee too late, which is poor hygeine.
Off topic, but I am telling you, SMART recovery has been amazing for me. It is the thinking man's addiction recovery program - and the face to face meetings teach exercises that actually work for facing cravings.
They get lesser and lesser as I use the REBT tools (and other CBT and MBCT tools) of SMART.
-z
Posted by Hugh on April 16, 2016, at 11:17:04
In reply to how would you taper off klonopin .5, also praz ?s, posted by zonked on April 15, 2016, at 20:13:27
My advice is to taper very, very slowly. It took me four months to get off of benzos. I was on Ativan. After tapering this for two months (very rough), I did a crossover to Valium (much smoother taper). I found the Ashton Manual very helpful. You might also try BenzoBuddies.org
Posted by Christ_empowered on April 16, 2016, at 20:17:35
In reply to Re: how would you taper off klonopin .5, also praz ?s » SLS, posted by zonked on April 16, 2016, at 8:36:59
I now take high dose (3grams/day) niacinamide for anxiety. Some alternative ppl use it to smooth out bzd tapers (acts on gaba receptors).I don't wanna push my orthomolecular on you, but its all I can come up to soften the blow. The stripped down, bare basics protocol is: niacin or niacinamide, at least an = amount vitamin C, b-50 or b-100. I use time release B3 and C in 2 daily doses, personally.
Other than that...I think taurine has some sedating, mood leveling properties, plus some anticonvulsant stuff that might (???) make it helpful. Its also cheap and readily available...I think you're supposed to take it on an empty stomach.
Hope you find something that works for you.
This is the end of the thread.
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