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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by maria3667 on May 22, 2015, at 18:27:29
Hi guys,
Effective medication for depression / anxiety always seem to have a fattening effect on me. Why is that?
For example:
- Mirtazapine (Remeron) - the best!! - but worst weight gain ever!!
- Elavil (amitryptiline),
- Trazodone,
- Seroquel (quetiapine)
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 22, 2015, at 18:36:13
In reply to Why are so many medications fattening???, posted by maria3667 on May 22, 2015, at 18:27:29
I swear to you, most psych meds these days subtract. Anti-anxiety=sedatives or general numbing. Anti-psychotics=trille the above, lol.
I dunno. Mental illness is so strange. The concept itself is vague. It'd be nice if shrinks could come up with something that addressed the actual problem(s), instead of suppressing symptoms, but...I doubt that will happen anytime soon.
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 22, 2015, at 20:07:34
In reply to Re: Why are so many medications fattening???, posted by Christ_empowered on May 22, 2015, at 18:36:13
I thought the title said "flattening."
Yeah, apparently, successful treatment of...well, just about any mental malady...requires fattening us up. That's how you know its working. :-)
Posted by Horse on May 23, 2015, at 1:06:25
In reply to oops, posted by Christ_empowered on May 22, 2015, at 20:07:34
Because they upset blood sugar and metabolic issues as a side effect.
Posted by stan_the_man70 on May 23, 2015, at 2:24:31
In reply to Why are so many medications fattening???, posted by maria3667 on May 22, 2015, at 18:27:29
this has been posted before
-----------------quote reference
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/10/zyprexa_and_fat.html
-------------end quoteOctober 18, 2010
Why Zyprexa (And Other Atypical Antipsychotics) Make You Fat
Strange finding: Zyprexa makes free fatty acids level go down.
Wait, isn't that a good thing?
II. Zyprexa's effects on glucose and insulin are bad.
III. Zyprexa's effect on triglycerides is... weird.
IV. Zyprexa Makes Your Body Use Fat, Not Carbs, As Fuel
V. Wait a second, why would increased utilization of fat be a bad thing?
VI. SUMMARY: A class effect, to varying degrees; and eating less may not help.
VII. Is that all the bad news?
VIII. Well thank God doctors are finally going to know the truth about Zyprexa!
--------------
you will need to read the entire article to see the graphs and pictures...
Posted by maria3667 on May 23, 2015, at 2:33:42
In reply to oops, posted by Christ_empowered on May 22, 2015, at 20:07:34
Yep, apparently if it doesn't pudge me up, it doesn't do diddely squat against anxious depression either...
Maria
> I thought the title said "flattening."
>
> Yeah, apparently, successful treatment of...well, just about any mental malady...requires fattening us up. That's how you know its working. :-)
Posted by maria3667 on May 23, 2015, at 2:39:42
In reply to Re: oops, posted by Horse on May 23, 2015, at 1:06:25
Posted by maria3667 on May 23, 2015, at 2:40:07
In reply to Re: oops, posted by Horse on May 23, 2015, at 1:06:25
Posted by stan_the_man70 on May 23, 2015, at 2:47:09
In reply to Why are so many medications fattening???, posted by maria3667 on May 22, 2015, at 18:27:29
comment to above posting
-------------
October 19, 2010 1:59 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | ReplyDopamine is a major metabolic controller. In animals dopamine along with melatonin is largely responsible for seasonal adaptation, i.e. hibernation. Human obesity is largely a hibernation response gone unchecked and chronically triggered by very high carbohyrate and abnormally decreased bright sun exposure combined with abnormal stressors (sleep deprivation and abnormal light exposure patterns - too much during sleep, not enough during wake).
In people taking zyprexa, blocking their dopamine receptors (and serotonin, and others) is making genes active that promote hibernation - they stop burning fat, stop storing fat, blood sugar increases, fertility shuts down, etc. It is no different than a hibernating animal.
In obese and diabetic humans it has been shown there is a paucity of dopaminergic signalling, and this is reversible upon glucose restriction. Downregulation of dopamine signalling is necessary to allow metabolic disorders to occur, why ? Because it is fundamentally a normal evolutionarily concerned hibernation tendency, it is only a disease in our modern society where tehse genes are being abnormally activated, chronically, year round.
Bromocriptine helps diabetes and obesity for this reason.
Regarding the observation that people on olanzapine are not using carbohydrate for energy, I would assume that is just the natural result of blocking multiple serotonin and dopamine receptors in the body - an inability, a debilitation, in using glucose for energy. This is a natural and evolutionarily conserved result of deficient neurotransmitter signaling, which again to the body signifies seasonal change and impending winter thus a hibernation-like response (metabolic conservation involving fat accrual, sleeping more, hunger, and shut down fertility).It's been known for awhile that when the body switches to using fat for energy this will result in hyperglycemia and thus compensatory hyperinsulinemia, which leads to body fat gain. When the body insists on burning fat even in the presence of carbohydrate, it could mean any number of things... 1) pathological insulin resistance due to damaged /deficient mitochondria (glucose cannot get into the cells because the mitochondria are deficient, mitochondria therefore burn fat primariliy and glucose in the blood is elevated)... 2) someone is taking a drug that induces hibernation and transient metabolic conservation (with deficient dopamine and serotonin, the body refuses to accept glucose, uses fat instead as in hibernation, body fat and blood sugar increase as it might in early fall to prepare for winter. Fertility decreases in response to decreased dopamine and serotonin as well, and infertility is a major feature of winter adaptation/hibernation in animals as it is in humans on dopamine receptor blockers.)
Eating less carbohydrate, particularly sugar, is the obvious intervention to control obesity. Even though increased fat utilization occurs during metabolic disorder, it is ultimately the glucose portion of the diet that triggers the fat storage and diabetes... or at least the WORST of it. If the body wants to use fat, then feed it fat. If you try to feed it sugar, all that will happen is your pancreas will spew out insulin and your liver will convert it to fat which is efficiently stored in adipose. If you avoid eating glucose food, the worst of this hyperglycemic/hyperinsulinemic tendency is controlled.
Regarding getting the "truth" out there...It's well known receptor blockers for psych illness make you a hibernating animal that sleeps 14 hours a day and has no motivation and weighs 300 pounds. This is not breaking news. Perhaps it would eliminate the stigma against fat schizophrenics, but that's more about social status than science anyway... the poor, uneducated, mentally ill, overweight people, how unfortunate. NO one cares.
Maybe one day, in a land far away, we will treat schizophrenia and manic depression as biological illnesses and figure out what is causing them, and ultimately resolve them... rather than just shut the brain down with receptor blockers like a chemical lobotomy.
--------------
Posted by maria3667 on May 23, 2015, at 2:57:29
In reply to Re: Why are so many medications fattening??? » maria3667, posted by stan_the_man70 on May 23, 2015, at 2:24:31
Hi Stan,
> IV. Zyprexa Makes Your Body Use Fat, Not Carbs, As Fuel
Intriguing! Reminds me of the mechanism of low carb diets. So it makes the patients fat because carbs are not used up as energy, but stored as fat.... Makes me wonder, if the patient would adhere to low carb, would the pounds still pile on???
I know first hand the diet definitely works for patients on Seroquel, but the shedding is slowed down. Probably due to Seroquel's impact on glucose levels. Several law suits claiming it makes users diabetic...
Maria
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 23, 2015, at 5:10:11
In reply to Re: Why are so many medications fattening??? » stan_the_man70, posted by maria3667 on May 23, 2015, at 2:57:29
I just know that metformin can reverse the fattening effect without side effects.
Posted by maria3667 on May 23, 2015, at 12:46:13
In reply to Re: Why are so many medications fattening???, posted by Lamdage22 on May 23, 2015, at 5:10:11
Hi Lamdage,
Unfortunately that's not true.
Metformin gives me severe dry mouth, which causes painful ulcers and tooth problems. Metformin does not combine well with Sjogren's syndrome.
Maria
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 23, 2015, at 13:34:29
In reply to Re: Why are so many medications fattening??? » Lamdage22, posted by maria3667 on May 23, 2015, at 12:46:13
For me it is true.
Its worth a try
Posted by hello123 on May 23, 2015, at 14:44:12
In reply to Re: Why are so many medications fattening???, posted by Lamdage22 on May 23, 2015, at 13:34:29
instead of effecting metabolism, like some meds might do, meds that block the 5ht2c receptor increase hunger. when i was taking cyproheptadine, i could stuff myself, then take cyproheptadine and 20 minutes later feel like i hadnt eaten all day. so yeah, i gainef 20 pounds while taking it for a few months.
Posted by maria3667 on May 24, 2015, at 15:08:38
In reply to Re: Why are so many medications fattening???, posted by Lamdage22 on May 23, 2015, at 13:34:29
I have tried it - but painful drying out of my mouth forced me to quit using Metformin.
Maria
>I just know that metformin can reverse the fattening effect without side effects.> For me it is true.
>
> Its worth a try
Posted by Maria3667 on May 25, 2015, at 8:50:43
In reply to Re: Why are so many medications fattening???, posted by hello123 on May 23, 2015, at 14:44:12
Hi Hello,
Wow! I have the same experience on Seroquel. Could eat like a horse & would probably eat the horse too.... lol !
Maria
> instead of effecting metabolism, like some meds might do, meds that block the 5ht2c receptor increase hunger. when i was taking cyproheptadine, i could stuff myself, then take cyproheptadine and 20 minutes later feel like i hadnt eaten all day. so yeah, i gainef 20 pounds while taking it for a few months.
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