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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by maria3667 on May 14, 2015, at 16:30:16
Hi guys,
Anyone of you know the working mechanism of Seroquel? What does it actually do? Calm the Gaba transmitters or something?
Maria
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 15, 2015, at 4:09:05
In reply to What does Seroquel actually do???, posted by maria3667 on May 14, 2015, at 16:30:16
It worsens the long term outcome of first episode psychosis.
http://www.mind-and-brain-blog.de/en/1459/antipsychotics-less-is-again-more/
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 15, 2015, at 4:09:53
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do???, posted by Lamdage22 on May 15, 2015, at 4:09:05
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 15, 2015, at 8:11:18
In reply to What does Seroquel actually do???, posted by maria3667 on May 14, 2015, at 16:30:16
OK. Hopefully, a real expert will chime in, but...till then...here goes...
Seroquel is an atypical antipsychotic. It doesn't bind to D2 receptors as much as many other antipsychotics, especially the older ones (think Haldol). It also antagonizes a number of serotonin receptors, which may help w/ some mood and anxiety issues.
Anyway, the deal is that Seroquel can treat psychosis and mania with less EPS--twitches, stuff like that--and a lower rate of Tardive dyskinesia (sort of like permanent EPS) than many other options, except probably clozapine.
One of seroquel's metabolites is something of an antidepressant...I think it works on norepinephrine reuptake. This may be why 300+mgs/day = anti-depressant response in a lot of people. Then again...anything that reduces anxiety reduces depression scores, so..who knows?
Seroquel can be quite sedating. Its a low potency drug, which means you need hundreds of mgs/day to get antipsychotic effects, whereas high potency drugs (like Risperdal) can do the job w/ a couple milligrams (but they come with their own set of side effects).
One big advantage of seroquel versus older low potency drugs, like Thorazine, is that seroquel can help mood issues, while many older drugs caused or worsened depression and feelings of unease. There's a term..."neuroleptic induced dysphoria," that basically means your antipsychotic is blunting your emotions and making you sad. This is less common with seroquel than with Thorazine and other older drugs.
And...that is all. :-)
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 16, 2015, at 6:07:03
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do???, posted by Christ_empowered on May 15, 2015, at 8:11:18
Just a rethorical question:
If i had proof that your med is basically battery acid in a pill, would you still ignore it and continue to take it?
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 16, 2015, at 6:15:55
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do???, posted by Lamdage22 on May 16, 2015, at 6:07:03
Meds have stolen half of my life thanks to this forum.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 16, 2015, at 9:01:00
In reply to What does Seroquel actually do???, posted by maria3667 on May 14, 2015, at 16:30:16
> Hi guys,
>
> Anyone of you know the working mechanism of Seroquel? What does it actually do? Calm the Gaba transmitters or something?
>
> MariaMaria,
You asked what the drug Seroquel can do to you and the working mechanism.
The drug is an altered version of another drug that can cause addiction and death. It comes out of benzene and attacks the nerves in a way that can produce a mind-altered state including to be compelled to kill yourself and stop your heart to cause sudden death. The mechanism is well-known in the study of death. What it can do to you could be life-ruining and when you want to stop the drug, there could be a withdrawal syndrome so horrific that you could kill yourself and or others. The longer you take it, the deeper you get into the realm of addiction and death by sudden heart attack as the drug can attack the nerves to the heart to stop their transmission so that the heart suddenly stops and death can be quick.
You could go back to your prescriber and discuss this and a hypothetical conversation could go like this:
You: I read by this Lou guy on the net that Seroquel can cause addiction. Is that true?
Prescriber: That is true
You: Would I then have to go through a horrific withdrawal if I want to stop the drug?
Prescriber: Yes, depending on how long you take it.
You: Will the drug manufacturer pay for my suffering in that case?
prescriber: No.
You: Why not?
Prescriber: Because it states in the paper inside the box that the drug could do that.
You: Could taking the drug cause me to want to kill myself?
Prescriber: Yes
You: How can this drug be sold?
Prescriber: Because there is a big box warning that the drug could cause you to kill yourself.
You: But you are a doctor so why would you give me or anyone else a drug that could kill us?
Prescriber: This is how I make money.
Lou
Posted by maria3667 on May 16, 2015, at 16:51:58
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do???, posted by Lamdage22 on May 16, 2015, at 6:07:03
Thanks for explaining.
My answer: I might, depending on how severe my symptoms would be. In the passed I have said I was willing to "drink horse piss if it would cure my anxiety/depression". Maybe battery acid tastes better???
Cheers,
Maria> Just a rethorical question:
>
> If i had proof that your med is basically battery acid in a pill, would you still ignore it and continue to take it?
Posted by maria3667 on May 16, 2015, at 16:55:24
In reply to Lou's response-monychngerz » maria3667, posted by Lou Pilder on May 16, 2015, at 9:01:00
I love the punchline: "That's how I make money." !!
Teetering on the thin line between life & death...
Maria
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > Anyone of you know the working mechanism of Seroquel? What does it actually do? Calm the Gaba transmitters or something?
> >
> > Maria
>
> Maria,
> You asked what the drug Seroquel can do to you and the working mechanism.
> The drug is an altered version of another drug that can cause addiction and death. It comes out of benzene and attacks the nerves in a way that can produce a mind-altered state including to be compelled to kill yourself and stop your heart to cause sudden death. The mechanism is well-known in the study of death. What it can do to you could be life-ruining and when you want to stop the drug, there could be a withdrawal syndrome so horrific that you could kill yourself and or others. The longer you take it, the deeper you get into the realm of addiction and death by sudden heart attack as the drug can attack the nerves to the heart to stop their transmission so that the heart suddenly stops and death can be quick.
> You could go back to your prescriber and discuss this and a hypothetical conversation could go like this:
> You: I read by this Lou guy on the net that Seroquel can cause addiction. Is that true?
> Prescriber: That is true
> You: Would I then have to go through a horrific withdrawal if I want to stop the drug?
> Prescriber: Yes, depending on how long you take it.
> You: Will the drug manufacturer pay for my suffering in that case?
> prescriber: No.
> You: Why not?
> Prescriber: Because it states in the paper inside the box that the drug could do that.
> You: Could taking the drug cause me to want to kill myself?
> Prescriber: Yes
> You: How can this drug be sold?
> Prescriber: Because there is a big box warning that the drug could cause you to kill yourself.
> You: But you are a doctor so why would you give me or anyone else a drug that could kill us?
> Prescriber: This is how I make money.
> Lou
Posted by maria3667 on May 16, 2015, at 16:58:25
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do???, posted by Christ_empowered on May 15, 2015, at 8:11:18
Posted by linkadge on May 16, 2015, at 17:59:27
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do???, posted by Lamdage22 on May 16, 2015, at 6:07:03
Lamdage. Holy Moly!
Don't take the medication if you don't want to!
I don't understand the logic.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on May 16, 2015, at 17:59:59
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do???, posted by Lamdage22 on May 16, 2015, at 6:15:55
>Meds have stolen half of my life thanks to this >forum.
Yet you're still here?
Linkadge
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 16, 2015, at 19:59:21
In reply to Re: Lou's response-monychngerz » Lou Pilder, posted by maria3667 on May 16, 2015, at 16:55:24
> I love the punchline: "That's how I make money." !!
>
> Teetering on the thin line between life & death...
>
> Maria
>
>
> > > Hi guys,
> > >
> > > Anyone of you know the working mechanism of Seroquel? What does it actually do? Calm the Gaba transmitters or something?
> > >
> > > Maria
> >
> > Maria,
> > You asked what the drug Seroquel can do to you and the working mechanism.
> > The drug is an altered version of another drug that can cause addiction and death. It comes out of benzene and attacks the nerves in a way that can produce a mind-altered state including to be compelled to kill yourself and stop your heart to cause sudden death. The mechanism is well-known in the study of death. What it can do to you could be life-ruining and when you want to stop the drug, there could be a withdrawal syndrome so horrific that you could kill yourself and or others. The longer you take it, the deeper you get into the realm of addiction and death by sudden heart attack as the drug can attack the nerves to the heart to stop their transmission so that the heart suddenly stops and death can be quick.
> > You could go back to your prescriber and discuss this and a hypothetical conversation could go like this:
> > You: I read by this Lou guy on the net that Seroquel can cause addiction. Is that true?
> > Prescriber: That is true
> > You: Would I then have to go through a horrific withdrawal if I want to stop the drug?
> > Prescriber: Yes, depending on how long you take it.
> > You: Will the drug manufacturer pay for my suffering in that case?
> > prescriber: No.
> > You: Why not?
> > Prescriber: Because it states in the paper inside the box that the drug could do that.
> > You: Could taking the drug cause me to want to kill myself?
> > Prescriber: Yes
> > You: How can this drug be sold?
> > Prescriber: Because there is a big box warning that the drug could cause you to kill yourself.
> > You: But you are a doctor so why would you give me or anyone else a drug that could kill us?
> > Prescriber: This is how I make money.
> > Lou
>
> Maria,
You wrote,[...teetering on the thin line between life and death...].
I know of a way out from being on that thin line, where you could be rescued to be on a solid surface, not teetering. If there was an anti-teetering drug, I would tell you about it. But there is not an anti-suicide drug and in fact, the psychotropic drugs could increase suicidal thinking. And many could come here saying to take this drug or that drug, but these drugs touted here as "medicines" could worsen depression and despair.
So what good would it do you to try every drug and loose your own life?
Let us return to the hypothetical psychiatrist's office and pick up the conversation.
Psychiatrist: Why are you here?
You: no one listens to me.
Psychiatrist: NEXT!!
You.. No, wait. I want to tell you why I am here. You see, my husband says I'm crazy. you see, I like cats.
psychiatrist: That's nonsense, I like cats also.
you: good, then you can come over , I have hundreds of them in our apartment.
psychiatrist: Hummm, what else is there?
You: Well, I keep seeing flying elephants every time I go to sleep.
psychiatrist: Have you seen a psychiatrist?
you: No, only the elephants.
now your husband comes in to join you and interrupts
husband: My wife thinks she is a chicken
psychiatrist: How long has this been going on?
husband: For two years
psychiatrist: Why have you not come to me sooner?
husband: we needed the eggs.
Lou
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 17, 2015, at 4:18:31
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do???, posted by linkadge on May 16, 2015, at 17:59:27
> Lamdage. Holy Moly!
>
> Don't take the medication if you don't want to!
>
> I don't understand the logic.
>
> LinkadgeI am reducing them. The choice to just not take them isnt there when you have taken them so long.
Effexor is fine. Lithium orotate is fine. (Both help against suicidality). But now that i read that outcomes are better with less/no antipsychotics, i want to get off of them completely.
See, 8 or 10 weeks or let it be 12, is not a time frame to conclude if a med is good for the patients or not. Thats a serious flaw in thinking if you are taking it for years.
Posted by linkadge on May 18, 2015, at 19:53:00
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do???, posted by Lamdage22 on May 17, 2015, at 4:18:31
I disagree. If you taper a medication slowly enough, the only thing you will be left with (for the most part) is your underlying disorder. That being said, I would never take the high doses and multiple medication cocktails that some people take.
There is a tendency among individuals with psychiatric disorders to assume that symptoms appearing upon withdrawal of a medication are solely due to the medication - failing to ask themselves how they got on the medication in the first place.
Yes, I have had bad reactions to medications - very bad ones, requiring hospitalization and loss of thousands in hard earned tuition money. However, my mother is bipolar. I know that we are very sensitive to medications that other people can take in very high doses without problems.
I had a psychotic reaction to parnate. After that, I was put on Seroquel (for a while) before discontinuing it. The doctor prescribed other medications, but, for the most part I didn't take them. I don't blame the doctor, or the MAOI. It was my foolish persistence that wanted to be on the supposed "big gun" MAOI. WTF. It was my own fault (and some bad genes).
But seriously. Some people are living under a rock. Just google search your favorite medication to realize that there are many people that have very bad reactions. Just last month, SSRIs are linked to seizures and plaque buildup in the arteries. I am not fooling myself into thinking I am ignorant of the risks.
If 25mg of Zoloft makes me manic (when 300mg is like water to another individual), who's fault is it? Is it my doctors fault for not knowing how I would react? Is it my fault for taking the med?
Maybe its my genetic makeup that predisposed me to both the original symptoms and to such medication reactions. I am not going to blame psychiatry, or the medications for my genetic response.
I have been on more medications than many people on this board. Yes, there are likely some lingering effects from taking these meds, but I realize that my core problems are simply the ones that I have always had - the ones that brought be to the psychiatrist in the first place.Currently, I am choosing to take an alternative approach. In hindsight however, I would still have tried the medications. It was worth a shot. Some people are helped.
Posted by Tomatheus on May 18, 2015, at 23:09:45
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do??? » Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on May 18, 2015, at 19:53:00
Linkadge,
What you wrote below was very well put, in my opinion. I basically feel the same way that you do, and I don't regret my decision to try psychiatric medications. Now, if I would have known in advance how the medications would have affected me, I probably wouldn't have taken them, but given that my initial symptoms were seriously disrupting my life, trying medications that had the potential to help was the right decision, at least from my perspective.
Tomatheus
> I disagree. If you taper a medication slowly enough, the only thing you will be left with (for the most part) is your underlying disorder. That being said, I would never take the high doses and multiple medication cocktails that some people take.
>
> There is a tendency among individuals with psychiatric disorders to assume that symptoms appearing upon withdrawal of a medication are solely due to the medication - failing to ask themselves how they got on the medication in the first place.
>
> Yes, I have had bad reactions to medications - very bad ones, requiring hospitalization and loss of thousands in hard earned tuition money. However, my mother is bipolar. I know that we are very sensitive to medications that other people can take in very high doses without problems.
>
> I had a psychotic reaction to parnate. After that, I was put on Seroquel (for a while) before discontinuing it. The doctor prescribed other medications, but, for the most part I didn't take them. I don't blame the doctor, or the MAOI. It was my foolish persistence that wanted to be on the supposed "big gun" MAOI. WTF. It was my own fault (and some bad genes).
>
> But seriously. Some people are living under a rock. Just google search your favorite medication to realize that there are many people that have very bad reactions. Just last month, SSRIs are linked to seizures and plaque buildup in the arteries. I am not fooling myself into thinking I am ignorant of the risks.
>
>
> If 25mg of Zoloft makes me manic (when 300mg is like water to another individual), who's fault is it? Is it my doctors fault for not knowing how I would react? Is it my fault for taking the med?
> Maybe its my genetic makeup that predisposed me to both the original symptoms and to such medication reactions. I am not going to blame psychiatry, or the medications for my genetic response.
>
>
> I have been on more medications than many people on this board. Yes, there are likely some lingering effects from taking these meds, but I realize that my core problems are simply the ones that I have always had - the ones that brought be to the psychiatrist in the first place.
>
> Currently, I am choosing to take an alternative approach. In hindsight however, I would still have tried the medications. It was worth a shot. Some people are helped.
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 19, 2015, at 13:28:01
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do??? » Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on May 18, 2015, at 19:53:00
>but I realize that my core problems are simply the ones that I have always had - the ones that brought be to the psychiatrist in the first place.
That is exactly what has not been the case with me.
My depression brought me to the psychiatrist. I returned with depression AND psychosis (or psychosis meds).
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 19, 2015, at 13:32:33
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do??? » linkadge, posted by Tomatheus on May 18, 2015, at 23:09:45
You have no idea how D-E-V-A-S-T-A-T-I-N-G. Nardil was for me.
Not only in the way that i now take antipsychotics.
So if you think you are the wiser man here, im gonna have to say that i NEVER had psychosis (or an apparent need for antipsychotics) prior to going to the psychiatrist.
Unlike you.
You would see things a little differently if you had my history. Believe me.
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 19, 2015, at 13:36:22
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do???, posted by Lamdage22 on May 19, 2015, at 13:32:33
Nardil was being hyped religiously here in this forum.
Nobody mentioned that this devastation that happened could happen. I would have not taken it if it were different.
Posted by Tomatheus on May 19, 2015, at 14:17:17
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do???, posted by Lamdage22 on May 19, 2015, at 13:32:33
Lamdage22,
See below for my responses to what you've written.
> So if you think you are the wiser man here, im gonna have to say that i NEVER had psychosis (or an apparent need for antipsychotics) prior to going to the psychiatrist.
>
> Unlike you.Actually, if you're addressing me, what you're saying is incorrect. I too never experienced psychotic symptoms prior to seeing a psychiatrist, but my anergic depression was, as I said, seriously disrupting my life at that point and was in need of treatment. Considering this, I don't regret my decision to present for psychiatric treatment of my anergic depression. Again, I don't think that I would have decided to take the medications if I had known *in advance* how little they would help and the extent to which my condition would worsen in the long run, but given the fact that I couldn't have known in advance what effect the medications might have on me, I don't regret having taken the chances that I did.
> You would see things a little differently if you had my history. Believe me.Maybe I would, but for the reasons I've stated, I basically feel the same way Linkadge feels on this issue. And I'm not saying that it's impossible that Nardil might have had something to do with your psychosis. Some medications that I took also might have had something to do with the psychosis that's now part of my condition, but it was *I* who decided to take the medications in question, and I take responsibility for that decision.
Tomatheus
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 20, 2015, at 6:27:45
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do??? » Lamdage22, posted by Tomatheus on May 19, 2015, at 14:17:17
Tomatheus,
i was adressing linkadge.
Posted by Tomatheus on May 20, 2015, at 11:50:24
In reply to Re: What does Seroquel actually do???, posted by Lamdage22 on May 20, 2015, at 6:27:45
> Tomatheus,
>
> i was adressing linkadge.Ok, my mistake then.
Tomatheus
This is the end of the thread.
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