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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pattisun16 on November 3, 2014, at 18:21:10
I have been on Amitriptyline for about 6 months, starting at 30mg and increasing by 10, got up to 80 mg. I found myself being hostile, like I was in my 20s again with PMS out of control. My poor husband was the receiver of these temper flashes. I decreased the Amitriptyline and the behavior went away. It did help my migraines and my overall pain levels.
My dosage of Celexa is 40 mg now, for the past 8 years or so it was 60. I also am on 3 mg of Klonopin for anxiety and movement disorder.
This path month I found myself obsessed with feelings of worthlessness and helplessness. I even wrote my oldest son and told him to take out a big life ins policy on me, then I could leave them enough money to care for my husband. WHAT WAS I DOING?? I again decreased the Amitriptyline and my sunny disposition came back!!
I hate giving up this drug, it helps my sleep and decreases my headaches.
The only other med change besides adding the Amitriptyline was that my neuro double the amount of Klonopin I was taking.
Anyone been through thIs???? Thoughts?...
I have terrible chronic pain (back, nerve problems-- spinal stenosis, plus osteo arthritis). Arthritis meds are too hard on my tummy :-(. I take Fentanyl patch plus Norco, it works about 2/3 of my pain, except if I am active then it hardly works at all
Sent from my iPad
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 3, 2014, at 20:02:07
In reply to Amitriptyline + Celexa, posted by pattisun16 on November 3, 2014, at 18:21:10
> I have been on Amitriptyline for about 6 months, starting at 30mg and increasing by 10, got up to 80 mg. I found myself being hostile, like I was in my 20s again with PMS out of control. My poor husband was the receiver of these temper flashes. I decreased the Amitriptyline and the behavior went away. It did help my migraines and my overall pain levels.
>
> My dosage of Celexa is 40 mg now, for the past 8 years or so it was 60. I also am on 3 mg of Klonopin for anxiety and movement disorder.
>
> This path month I found myself obsessed with feelings of worthlessness and helplessness. I even wrote my oldest son and told him to take out a big life ins policy on me, then I could leave them enough money to care for my husband. WHAT WAS I DOING?? I again decreased the Amitriptyline and my sunny disposition came back!!
>
> I hate giving up this drug, it helps my sleep and decreases my headaches.
>
> The only other med change besides adding the Amitriptyline was that my neuro double the amount of Klonopin I was taking.
>
> Anyone been through thIs???? Thoughts?...
>
> I have terrible chronic pain (back, nerve problems-- spinal stenosis, plus osteo arthritis). Arthritis meds are too hard on my tummy :-(. I take Fentanyl patch plus Norco, it works about 2/3 of my pain, except if I am active then it hardly works at all
>
>
> Sent from my iPadpattisun16,
You asked for any thoughts. My thoughts after reading your post is that there could be an adverse event in your life ,soon, that could cause your death. I base this on the combination of drugs that you are taking along with your description of worthlessness and helplessness. Those two could culminate in suicidal thoughts along with that the drugs can cause gross impaired thinking. And along with the helplessness, that is a prescription for death by not knowing what to do in a situation that could be life-threatening.
Then there is an addiction potential in the drugs that you are taking so that if you go into withdrawal, that could induce immediate panic to kill yourself or others.
So should you go on drugging so that being obsessed with worthlessness and helplessness could abound? Well, if you do, the combination of those drugs could induce death by what is known as {serotonin syndrome}.
So what can you do to be saved? Withdrawing from all of those drugs could induce suicidal thinking and be in a horrific state and the pain could be unbearable. And if someone tells you to take this drug here, or that drug there, how could they know that by you following their advise that you could not die from what they advised you to take? Isn't it better to find an expert, first, to treat you? But is there such an expert?
I say to you, one can not live by drugs alone.
Lou
Posted by cadett on November 3, 2014, at 20:44:36
In reply to Lou's response- btbyevrywurd » pattisun16, posted by Lou Pilder on November 3, 2014, at 20:02:07
Really Lou, you are no help here! We are trying to help people and learn what meds.work. All of your comments are against medication, maybe you should be on another site. I look on here daily and see nothing you have to offer.
case close.
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 3, 2014, at 21:00:52
In reply to Re: Lou's response- btbyevrywurd, posted by cadett on November 3, 2014, at 20:44:36
> Really Lou, you are no help here! We are trying to help people and learn what meds.work. All of your comments are against medication, maybe you should be on another site. I look on here daily and see nothing you have to offer.
> case close.s,
You can offer your advise to the poster as to what meds will work, if any. But don't forget whose life could be taken away if they follow your advice. I am not against medicine, I am against death. What I have to offer could save lives, prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions.
Lou
Posted by pattisun on November 3, 2014, at 22:36:18
In reply to Lou's reply-ehgnz » cadett, posted by Lou Pilder on November 3, 2014, at 21:00:52
You sound like my "pain" specialists that are willing to shoot me full of steroids every 10 weeks, but tell me I will die from pain meds, I've been on pain meds since 2001. I am VERY RESPONSIBLE, and know how to take them safely. I Love my newly disabled husband that now has dementia and 2 strokes this year, and my 2 grown sons, with my first grandchild on the way.
I SAID I IMMEDIATELY cut back the Elavil and the dark thoughts WENT AWAY. People have a right to be out of crippling pain. My pain meds do not get me high, there is no affect other than some relief. If I ever get this pain uncontrolled I might become suicidal, but even then I would suffer anything for my family.
I WANT TO HEAR FROM PEOPLE THAT HAVE TAKEN MED COMBINATIONS SIMILIAR TO MINE, THERE ARE SMART PEOPLE ON THIS SITE, I've been posting here off and on for years now. Thanks Lou for your concern, I'm happy you live a drug free life. My medical treatment was so mismanaged and I've been given so many meds, believe me I have turned down or detoxed from LOTS of them.> Really Lou, you are no help here! We are trying to help people and learn what meds.work. All of your comments are against medication, maybe you should be on another site. I look on here daily and see nothing you have to offer.
> > case close.
>
> s,
> You can offer your advise to the poster as to what meds will work, if any. But don't forget whose life could be taken away if they follow your advice. I am not against medicine, I am against death. What I have to offer could save lives, prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions.
> Lou
Posted by Phillipa on November 3, 2014, at 23:04:17
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-ehgnz » Lou Pilder, posted by pattisun on November 3, 2014, at 22:36:18
In kindness you do have a complicated problem. I share the arthritis and stenosis but I don't take pain meds. So only suggestion do you see a PT? Mine has started dry needling me. Like accupunction. And it's immediate relief if some of the pain is coming from muscles that are protecting the bones. Hope someone has some good responses for you. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 4, 2014, at 5:23:18
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-ehgnz » Lou Pilder, posted by pattisun on November 3, 2014, at 22:36:18
> You sound like my "pain" specialists that are willing to shoot me full of steroids every 10 weeks, but tell me I will die from pain meds, I've been on pain meds since 2001. I am VERY RESPONSIBLE, and know how to take them safely. I Love my newly disabled husband that now has dementia and 2 strokes this year, and my 2 grown sons, with my first grandchild on the way.
> I SAID I IMMEDIATELY cut back the Elavil and the dark thoughts WENT AWAY. People have a right to be out of crippling pain. My pain meds do not get me high, there is no affect other than some relief. If I ever get this pain uncontrolled I might become suicidal, but even then I would suffer anything for my family.
> I WANT TO HEAR FROM PEOPLE THAT HAVE TAKEN MED COMBINATIONS SIMILIAR TO MINE, THERE ARE SMART PEOPLE ON THIS SITE, I've been posting here off and on for years now. Thanks Lou for your concern, I'm happy you live a drug free life. My medical treatment was so mismanaged and I've been given so many meds, believe me I have turned down or detoxed from LOTS of them.
>
>
>
> > Really Lou, you are no help here! We are trying to help people and learn what meds.work. All of your comments are against medication, maybe you should be on another site. I look on here daily and see nothing you have to offer.
> > > case close.
> >
> > s,
> > You can offer your advise to the poster as to what meds will work, if any. But don't forget whose life could be taken away if they follow your advice. I am not against medicine, I am against death. What I have to offer could save lives, prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions.
> > Lou
>
> p,
You wrote about that your feelings of unworthiness and helplessness went away after decreasing Elavil. What I was referring to is that you do recognize that the drug could have been the precipitator of the feelings of unworthiness and helplessness, which can be depression from the drug.
And that is a fact. Depression is listed in the package inserts of many of these psychotropic drugs. It is not just Elavil that I was referring to, for if you take another drug as advised by someone here, that drug could also cause depression. And the drugs that you are taking now can also cause depression.
In the broad sense, continuing to take psychotropic drugs could bring back the hopelessness and feelings of unworthiness.
Lou
Posted by Christ_empowered on November 4, 2014, at 6:24:29
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-ehgnz » Lou Pilder, posted by pattisun on November 3, 2014, at 22:36:18
ummmm...well, there are other TCA drugs to consider. I'm no expert on these things, but...
...there's good ole Tofranil. I used to take it. It came out a bit before Elavil. I don't know why more people don't take Tofranil. You take the whole dose at night. When it was first studied, it was seen as a sedative that gradually produced activation. Not for manic depressives, apparently.
I think there's Pamelor and some others that are more NE heavy but still do relieve pain and prevent headaches. Those might be safer with a high dose SSRI on board.
Have they done blood levels for you? If you're taking another AD, I would think that you'd want to do TCA blood levels, to make sure you're not approaching a toxic level. Just a thought.
I guess you could drop the celexa and switch over to Cymbalta. I think for pain they go up to 120mgs/day. I don't know if its as good as the TCA drugs, but the side effects are different and it seems to be fairly popular. It recently went generic.
Ummmm...if you drop the AD completely, you could take Ultram (tramadol). I think it just got moved into Schedule IV. Somebody must have enjoyed it too much. Anyway, it helps pain and can also lift mood...I think its chemically related to Effexor or something...some kinda reuptake inhibition. Mixed with neuroleptics and ADs, though, bad things (serotonin syndrome, seizures) can happen.
Good luck!
Posted by pattisun on November 4, 2014, at 9:03:03
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-ehgnz, posted by Christ_empowered on November 4, 2014, at 6:24:29
My neuro suggested Pamelor, but I decided to go see the psychiatrist because I thought I should consider getting of the Celexa too. Thanks for your thoughts, it gives me done questions I can ask the psych. It's so frustrating to get your meds just right and then they stop working or give you side effects!!
Posted by phidippus on November 4, 2014, at 21:04:05
In reply to Amitriptyline + Celexa, posted by pattisun16 on November 3, 2014, at 18:21:10
What is your diaganosis and what do you take for it? What do you take for the pain besides Amytriptiline and Fentanyl?
If you're bipolar, I wouldn't take the Amytriptaline on top of the Celexa.
Have you any experience with Tramadol or Lyrica?
If Fentanyl isn't helping enough I don't know what to suggest except the patch is kind of crappy. It dosn't release the drug very well and you don't get everything you would get out of an injectable solution.
Eric
Posted by pattisun on November 4, 2014, at 22:17:49
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline + Celexa » pattisun16, posted by phidippus on November 4, 2014, at 21:04:05
> What is your diaganosis and what do you take for it? TERRIBLE ANXIETY DISORDER AND PAIN, MIGRAINES AND NERVES IN MY BACK ARE COMPRESSED (Spinal stenosis). Had bad luck with pain meds--Vioxx gave me congestive heart failure. I had a bleed from NSAIDS. So now I have crappy patches and allowed 4 Norco/day. What do you take for the pain besides Amytriptiline and Fentanyl?
>
> If you're bipolar, I wouldn't take the Amytriptaline on top of the Celexa. NO, NOT BIPOLAR. Psychiatrist said too much SSRI with both of them. He said I could try Nortriptyline which is more pain-control and less SSRI effect and slightly decrease my Celexa. OR. I could increase Amitriptyline and decrease Celexa until I was off Celexa. I'm gonna try the Nortriptyline and slightly decrease my Celexa for now.
>
> Have you any experience with Tramadol or Lyrica? NO, he said we could try Lyrica or Cymbalta if the above doesn't work.
>
> If Fentanyl isn't helping enough I don't know what to suggest except the patch is kind of crappy. It dosn't release the drug very well and you don't get everything you would get out of an injectable solution.
>
I'm going to look around for a pain specialist. Right now it's just my primary doctor and she doesn't like to be creative. I look at my blood test and know the acetometaphine is HARD on my kidneys. Oh, and my pain level is Crazy bad!!
Thanks Eric
> Eric
Posted by phidippus on November 8, 2014, at 6:48:15
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline + Celexa, posted by pattisun on November 4, 2014, at 22:17:49
>TERRIBLE ANXIETY DISORDER
Well, you're going to need the Celexa, another SSRI or an SNRI to help with the anxiety. Cymbalta might be a good choice cause it will treat the anxiety and help with the pain.
>PAIN
Patches aren't as effective as oral. I would recommend Dilaudid up to 16 mg for your level of pain.
>MIGRAINES
I highly recommend Maxalt for the treatment of migraine-it knocks mine right out.
>AND NERVES IN MY BACK ARE COMPRESSED (Spinal stenosis).
Have you looked in to laser surgery?
>So now I have crappy patches and allowed 4 Norco/day.
I would try Dilaudid or if you can get the Fentanyl in shot form, that would be best. Norco isn't all that strong (it's Vicodin and Tylenol).
>He said I could try Nortriptyline which is more pain-control and less SSRI effect and slightly decrease my Celexa.
Jeez, this seems like a bad strategy to me if you're having a lot of anxiety. Nortriptyline won't help as much as Cymbalta would.
>I'm gonna try the Nortriptyline and slightly decrease my Celexa for now.
You're going to get more anxious.
Eric
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 8, 2014, at 8:07:53
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline + Celexa » pattisun, posted by phidippus on November 8, 2014, at 6:48:15
> >TERRIBLE ANXIETY DISORDER
>
> Well, you're going to need the Celexa, another SSRI or an SNRI to help with the anxiety. Cymbalta might be a good choice cause it will treat the anxiety and help with the pain.
>
> >PAIN
>
> Patches aren't as effective as oral. I would recommend Dilaudid up to 16 mg for your level of pain.
>
> >MIGRAINES
>
> I highly recommend Maxalt for the treatment of migraine-it knocks mine right out.
>
> >AND NERVES IN MY BACK ARE COMPRESSED (Spinal stenosis).
>
> Have you looked in to laser surgery?
>
> >So now I have crappy patches and allowed 4 Norco/day.
>
> I would try Dilaudid or if you can get the Fentanyl in shot form, that would be best. Norco isn't all that strong (it's Vicodin and Tylenol).
>
> >He said I could try Nortriptyline which is more pain-control and less SSRI effect and slightly decrease my Celexa.
>
> Jeez, this seems like a bad strategy to me if you're having a lot of anxiety. Nortriptyline won't help as much as Cymbalta would.
>
> >I'm gonna try the Nortriptyline and slightly decrease my Celexa for now.
>
> You're going to get more anxious.
>
> Eric
>
> Friends,
Take heed that no man deceives you. If you are a parent trying to make a decision to drug your child or not in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor or to drug yourself or someone you care for, then be advised that what you read here in this post that I am responding to could mark the difference between you or one that you care for being a live person or a corpse. And worse, if you remain living and take these drugs you could inherit years of life-ruining conditions with suffering that could be such horror that you could want to kill yourself rather than endure the horrible consequences associated with addiction/withdrawal from these drugs via addiction to these drugs mentioned.
The poster is advising to take Dilaudid which is a type of morphine. And worse, the drug is advised to be taken with Cymbalta and other mind-altering drugs. And a psychiatrist/doctor can legally prescribe such drugs that could lead to addiction and death. And worse, readers here could think that what is being advised here is being supportive by Mr. Hsiung as it is allowed to be posted without repudiation so that a subset of readers could think that Mr. Hsiung is ratifying what is being advised by the poster here because Mr. Hsiung has in his policy here that being supportive takes precedence and that he is doing what in his thinking will be good for this community as a whole. And even much worse, readers could have these drugs already from previous uses that they shelved or even could obtain these drugs from a family member and then take them as advised by the poster here all the time thinking that it is going to be alright because there is not an intervention here from Mr. Hsiung, since he is a doctor, to say that it is not alright.
Lou
Posted by pattisun on November 9, 2014, at 15:20:48
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline + Celexa » pattisun, posted by phidippus on November 8, 2014, at 6:48:15
Eric,
Thanks for the post. My anxiety is null now because I have Klonopin for my movement disorder (it's like Parkinson's -- only not nearly as bad). Unfortunately I only have an internal medicine doc who is not specialized in pain meds, UCSD pain doctors no longer prescribe meds, just give shots and other procedures...I need to find a good pain specialist to take over my prescribing. The Norco is burning out my liver, I read my blood tests...
I'll keep a copy of your suggestions whenever I can find a specialist who is willing to help!!
take care, Patti
ps. Who's this obnoxious poster who's on here lately? Talking about Debbie Downer, he's like fleas, pesky and hard to get them to leave!! you can preach all you want until a health trajedy strikes your life. I wish him happiness in his life. (As a Buddhist that's what we do for troubling people)
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 9, 2014, at 16:22:41
In reply to Re: Amitriptyline + Celexa, posted by pattisun on November 9, 2014, at 15:20:48
> Eric,
> Thanks for the post. My anxiety is null now because I have Klonopin for my movement disorder (it's like Parkinson's -- only not nearly as bad). Unfortunately I only have an internal medicine doc who is not specialized in pain meds, UCSD pain doctors no longer prescribe meds, just give shots and other procedures...
>
> I need to find a good pain specialist to take over my prescribing. The Norco is burning out my liver, I read my blood tests...
>
> I'll keep a copy of your suggestions whenever I can find a specialist who is willing to help!!
>
> take care, Patti
> ps. Who's this obnoxious poster who's on here lately? Talking about Debbie Downer, he's like fleas, pesky and hard to get them to leave!! you can preach all you want until a health trajedy strikes your life. I wish him happiness in his life. (As a Buddhist that's what we do for troubling people)Friends,
It is written here,[...Who's this (redacted by repondent) poster...he's like fleas...you can preach all you want until a health trajedy strikes your life..what we do for troubling people...].
I guess I could qualify to be a member of the subset of people that could fit your qualification to be the person that you describe and ten readers could think trhat I am your subject person here.
It is no great honor to come to my own defense here. For if readers could think that I am your subject person, what you have written about my character could induce hostile and disagreable feelings and opinions toward me and decrease the respect, regard and confidence in which I am held.
That IMHO could mark the difference between a subset of readers being alive or dead. I base this on that what I have to say here could save lives and prevent addictions and life-ruining conditions. That IMHO is supportive in any forum unless death and addiction and life-riuing conditions are what the forum wants to promote, encorage, ratify, validate and develop.
You see, there are children peeking through the portals of this website after school. And mothers trying to decide to drug their child or not in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor.
If by reading here to take Cymbalta with Celexa goes unchallenged, readers could think that taking those two drugs together, which could lead to death, is supportive because readers are told by Mr. Hsiung that being supportive takes precedence. And the taking of multiple narcotic drugs including Dilaudid along with the psychotropic drugs, could bring the horrors of withdrawal to those taking those drugs and along with the psychiatric drugs, one could become so confused and have their thinking so impaired, that they could not know what to do to save their lives. I believe in support. My belief may be different from yours, but different points of view are acceptable here.
Lou
Posted by pattisun on November 9, 2014, at 21:19:03
In reply to Lou;s response-dyph » pattisun, posted by Lou Pilder on November 9, 2014, at 16:22:41
Lou,
I am referring to you as obnoxious because you posted your valued opinion at the beginning of my question here. You make valid points and I know my brain is scrambled eggs in part thanks to drug manufacturers.
BUT YOU KEEP POSTING AGAIN AND AGAIN on the same subject line.. You said your opinions, I respect that, but to keep going after everyone on here who is trying to help me is NOT cool.
Once was enough. I will pray for your happiness and if you help people get off medications and they are able to live that way good for you and them.
I you respond to this I will NOT reply or carry on any further communications with you.. This is my attempt to be thoughtful and explain my snide remark...
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 11, 2014, at 10:41:33
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-ehgnz » Lou Pilder, posted by pattisun on November 3, 2014, at 22:36:18
> I WANT TO HEAR FROM PEOPLE THAT HAVE TAKEN MED COMBINATIONS SIMILIAR TO MINE
Thanks for being clear who you want to hear from. That makes it easier for others to decide whether to reply, and for me to keep this thread supportive.
Bob
PS: Remember, you can also use the "notify administrators" button to let me know if you don't find a post supportive.
This is the end of the thread.
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