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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Hugh on November 26, 2013, at 12:44:06
A Swedish study found that people who attempted suicide had higher levels of quinolinic acid, a by-product of inflammation that mimics glutamate. The more suicidal the patient, the higher their quinolinic acid level. I've been reading more about the link between inflammation and depression, since I recently had a bad case of bronchitis. The inflammation level in my lungs and my depression level were in lockstep. Here's an article about the study:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/18/quinolinic-acid-suicide-spinal-fluid_n_2325556.html
Posted by linkadge on November 26, 2013, at 18:02:37
In reply to Quinolinic acid and suicide attempts, posted by Hugh on November 26, 2013, at 12:44:06
Interesting. Sometimes, when I feel like hell, and aspirin can help significantly. I remember reading that celebrex had some antidepressant effect in treatment resistant patients.
Linkadge
Posted by Hugh on November 27, 2013, at 12:11:21
In reply to Re: Quinolinic acid and suicide attempts, posted by linkadge on November 26, 2013, at 18:02:37
> Interesting. Sometimes, when I feel like hell, and aspirin can help significantly. I remember reading that celebrex had some antidepressant effect in treatment resistant patients.
>
> LinkadgeI've read that taking aspirin or ibuprofen can boost the effects of an antidepressant. Using anti-inflammatories to treat depression will likely become much more common as new and better drugs become available. I read that pyruvate can block the effects of quinolinic acid. There's a dietary supplement called calcium pyruvate.
Posted by linkadge on November 27, 2013, at 20:25:44
In reply to Re: Quinolinic acid and suicide attempts, posted by Hugh on November 27, 2013, at 12:11:21
Certain anti-inflamatories may not be suitable for long term treatment of depression. Regular use of aspirin and ibuprofen etc. can kill of good bacteria in the gut which might worsen depression. (Probiotics apparently can help certain types of depression.)
Its probably also important to determine the cause of the inflamation. Sugar, stress, bad oral hygine, lack of sleep, lack of exercise, have been apparently linked to inflamation. Inflamation might simply be a response to a perceived stressor. Blocking the inflamation might treat the symptoms of the depression but not the source. Antidepressants and lithium apparently have immune modulating effects. I think activating the 5-ht1a receptor reduces inflamation.
The enzyme gsk-3b (modulated by certain antidepressants and lithium) regulates neural inflamation as well as circadian rythem. This enzyme has been linked to certain mood disorders.
Its an interesting piece to the puzzle though.
Linkadge
Posted by Hugh on November 28, 2013, at 12:41:11
In reply to Re: Quinolinic acid and suicide attempts, posted by linkadge on November 27, 2013, at 20:25:44
There are some anti-inflammatories in the pipeline that appear to have far fewer side effects and may be taken long-term. These and ketamine-like drugs like GLYX-13 and Low-Field Magnetic Stimulation will likely be the first-line treatments for depression in the future -- IF they do as well in the larger clinical trials as they've done in the smaller ones.
Posted by brynb on November 30, 2013, at 22:45:15
In reply to Quinolinic acid and suicide attempts, posted by Hugh on November 26, 2013, at 12:44:06
Hi Hugh-
Interesting. I was particularly curious to see you mentioned bronchitis. I've had asthma since birth, and I get bronchitis and sinusitis 3-4 times a year, which usually results in me having to take long courses of prednisone and antibiotics. I've always wondered how big a role my allergies and asthma play in my depression.
As to the glutamate, you may remember I did about 2 months of Ketamine (IM) treatment at the beginning of the year with Dr. Fruitman (who is and has been my pdoc since then). When I began Ketamine treatment, it definitely helped lift me from a bad major depressive episode. Since then, I've had (maybe) 3 Ketamine treatments if I was in a really bad slump, and it didn't have the same impact as it did in the beginning.
Thanks for posting this and hope you're well.
-b
Posted by Hugh on December 1, 2013, at 16:32:32
In reply to Re: Quinolinic acid and suicide attempts » Hugh, posted by brynb on November 30, 2013, at 22:45:15
Hi Bryn,
I'm doing a lot better since I got over my bout of bronchitis. It really put me into a deep depression. I'm sorry to hear that you have to deal with it so often. It's certainly possible that your depression is caused, at least in part, by your lung and sinus problems. I've heard that this nasal spray is good for sinusitis, and possibly asthma too.
Posted by brynb on December 1, 2013, at 16:56:13
In reply to Re: Quinolinic acid and suicide attempts » brynb, posted by Hugh on December 1, 2013, at 16:32:32
Glad to hear you're feeling better, Hugh!
I don't doubt my breathing issues contribute to the depression. I also have a lot of anxiety issues around sleep and breathing. I once had a pdoc tell me he thought I suffered from PTSD from growing up with (and continually having) asthma attacks. I really disliked the man--he was extremely arrogant--so I dismissed everything he said.
Thanks for the link to the spray--it looks great. I can't take any decongestion sprays (like Afrin) or corticosteroid sprays (like Rhinocort) as my septum is just destroyed from that stuff. I'm definitely going to look into the spray you suggested--it seems gentle enough!
-b
Posted by Hugh on December 2, 2013, at 11:49:27
In reply to Re: Quinolinic acid and suicide attempts » Hugh, posted by brynb on December 1, 2013, at 16:56:13
Another thing that might have contributed to your depression is all the antibiotics you've been on for your respiratory problems. These can have a devastating impact on beneficial bacteria in the gut. Probiotics will probably be another future treatment for depression. There are some in the pipeline that look like they could help to alleviate depression and anxiety.
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