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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ChicagoKat on November 30, 2012, at 20:01:21
Focalin has been more tolerable than Ritalin. But it is still a form of Ritalin. I was off any form of Ritalin a few weeks ago when I was on Nardil plus Nortriptyline. I thought it would be a great holiday for the Ritalin if I ever started it again. Today my morning dose worked so-so, but my noon and late afternoon doses had absolutely no effect on me.
It seems that RItalin, no matter what form I take it in, is giving up on me. And it is/was my last chance. If I can build up tolerance to it that quickly, it's just a short matter of time until it gives up on me completely. Then what?
I will live in my bed. I will only get up to use the washroom. I will force myself to take a shower once or maybe twice a week. I will lie in my bed and pray that I achieve a state of catatonia. Or a coma. My husband will eventually divorce me. I will have to try to live with one of my parents. That will not go well. I will eventually spiral down until I become homeless and addicted to crack or meth or something. And then it won't be long til I die.
Posted by Phillipa on November 30, 2012, at 20:55:30
In reply to About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by ChicagoKat on November 30, 2012, at 20:01:21
Kat for real? I don't picture you are a homeless person though. You seem to be catastrophising like I do. I'm sorry. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2012, at 20:57:08
In reply to About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by ChicagoKat on November 30, 2012, at 20:01:21
> Focalin has been more tolerable than Ritalin. But it is still a form of Ritalin. I was off any form of Ritalin a few weeks ago when I was on Nardil plus Nortriptyline. I thought it would be a great holiday for the Ritalin if I ever started it again. Today my morning dose worked so-so, but my noon and late afternoon doses had absolutely no effect on me.
>
> It seems that RItalin, no matter what form I take it in, is giving up on me. And it is/was my last chance. If I can build up tolerance to it that quickly, it's just a short matter of time until it gives up on me completely. Then what?
>
> I will live in my bed. I will only get up to use the washroom. I will force myself to take a shower once or maybe twice a week. I will lie in my bed and pray that I achieve a state of catatonia. Or a coma. My husband will eventually divorce me. I will have to try to live with one of my parents. That will not go well. I will eventually spiral down until I become homeless and addicted to crack or meth or something. And then it won't be long til I die.
>
> Chi Kat,
I posted this long ago here and when I saw your post today I rememberd it.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/2007227/msgs/819788.html
>
Posted by rjlockhart37 on November 30, 2012, at 20:57:37
In reply to About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by ChicagoKat on November 30, 2012, at 20:01:21
Kat....don't think about those things...i know, even the thought of waking up makes tired again...don't let the sorrow get into the way of how you think. Couple days I had a my moment where I think collpase of nothing in achievement...i was in my room and mourned bad over my unaccomplished desires, it was like a 100 knives inside me turning in the emotional part of me. Looking a high school prom filled with pink and white ballons and happy people and romance.. my long lost desire that I never went to...i never went to prom...i did in the 10grade but it wasnt a memorable moment. I thought of that...and it killed me, i just got under pillow and let it out, and it was a long time because it kept pushing into my thoughts over again. But I realized after being in this sorrow helpless feelings, you have to know to get it back together...and as much as I wanted someone to come and save me, and give me all my dreams I wanted...it just doesnt happen.
its like the feeling of seeing precious china plates smashed all over the floor, I mean it would make their owner mourn, but you have to clean it up, and move on and get some more.
Try to put the Focalin under your tongue, that's what I do with my zyprexa, the nuvigil is too nasty...for me, but try it. Have coffee, or maybe a couple glasses a wine when you need it, think of something that makes you motivated and strong, a tv show, anything.
hold in there kat...
r
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2012, at 21:00:47
In reply to Lou's response-hrtofuerth » ChicagoKat, posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2012, at 20:57:08
> > Focalin has been more tolerable than Ritalin. But it is still a form of Ritalin. I was off any form of Ritalin a few weeks ago when I was on Nardil plus Nortriptyline. I thought it would be a great holiday for the Ritalin if I ever started it again. Today my morning dose worked so-so, but my noon and late afternoon doses had absolutely no effect on me.
> >
> > It seems that RItalin, no matter what form I take it in, is giving up on me. And it is/was my last chance. If I can build up tolerance to it that quickly, it's just a short matter of time until it gives up on me completely. Then what?
> >
> > I will live in my bed. I will only get up to use the washroom. I will force myself to take a shower once or maybe twice a week. I will lie in my bed and pray that I achieve a state of catatonia. Or a coma. My husband will eventually divorce me. I will have to try to live with one of my parents. That will not go well. I will eventually spiral down until I become homeless and addicted to crack or meth or something. And then it won't be long til I die.
> >
> > Chi Kat,
> I posted this long ago here and when I saw your post today I rememberd it.
> Lou
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/2007227/msgs/819788.html
> >
> correction
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20070227/msgs/819788.html
>
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on November 30, 2012, at 21:44:09
In reply to About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by ChicagoKat on November 30, 2012, at 20:01:21
Kat, i realy think you need to consider going into hospital as an inpatient for a bit.
Given that you develop tolorance easily, stimulants dont seema a viable alternative for you except for occasional use.
I would suggest trying parnate, Clomipramine and any other things your doctor might recoment, but i think that short period in hospital might realy help you at ths point.
J
Posted by ChicagoKat on December 1, 2012, at 0:51:53
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing » ChicagoKat, posted by Phillipa on November 30, 2012, at 20:55:30
> Kat for real? I don't picture you are a homeless person though. You seem to be catastrophising like I do. I'm sorry. Phillipa
Yep, I was catastrophising, I'm real good at that. Sorry to write such a scary email. I ended up taking an extra Focalin b/c I was unbelievably down and it did the trick and made me feel better. But I can't keep taking that much of the Focalin. I'm so fed up and worried. Ritalin is truly the only thing that works for me, and sometimes it doesn't work at all, or other times it works for just a couple of hours. I don't see how I can live like this long term. I really have tried every antidepressant available, and none of them work, or they work but only for a few days. My brain is determined to keep my positive neurotransmitters at very low levels no matter what. I'm really down and upset about it. Sometimes I really am ready to give up :(
Posted by ChicagoKat on December 1, 2012, at 1:00:49
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by rjlockhart37 on November 30, 2012, at 20:57:37
thanks rj for your input. I'm sorry to read that you also have moments of intense pain.
I promise I won't give up, it's just that sometimes I get so frustrated and sad and scared that I think about it, though I know I never would do it. I have too much to live for.
Like my couple of hours a day when the planets are all properly aligned and my Ritalin/Focalin works.
The only other thing that works is to have a huge cry and let it all out. Sometimes I sob SO loudly and for so long, I'm afraid the neighbors will hear and call the police or something.
And I have found a way to kinda help get my mind off of it...I play my music loud. I mean really, really loud. When I do that, the music takes over and my brain stops it's constant worrying and negative thoughts. So that helps.
Thanks again for your encouragement rj. And I am sorry that you feel lots of pain sometimes too. You hang in there and I will too.
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on December 1, 2012, at 1:10:23
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by jono_in_adelaide on November 30, 2012, at 21:44:09
I truly appreciate your concern Jono, but I absolutely am not going inpt. ever again. I honestly would rather die than do that.
I tried an outpt program at a different hospital since my beloved hospital I've done OP at before is not covered by my new insurance. The program was truly, utterly terrible. So I asked my pdoc for advice, if he knew any other places that were better. He did tell me that I am not the first person who has complained about the place I tried. But he said that another option I have is really good. In fact, he rather bashfully told me that he had started the program there in 1981 and ran it for quite a while. So I am going to look into doing OP there.
I can't do Parnate. It is not covered by my insurance, and surprisingly it is very expensive to buy out of pocket; it costs 130 bucks a month
Clomipramine may be something to try. With my track record I honestly don't think it will work,, but it can't hurt to try. I will ask my pdoc about it.
Thanks Jono. Your concern means a lot. But I promise I will not give up. I was just sooooo frustrated and down when I first posted. I've survived episodes of feeling even worse. I'm a survivor and I refuse to give up. I have too much to live for.
Kat
Posted by SLS on December 1, 2012, at 9:07:56
In reply to About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by ChicagoKat on November 30, 2012, at 20:01:21
> I will eventually spiral down until I become homeless and addicted to crack or meth or something. And then it won't be long til I die.
Perhaps. Not today, though.
Just remember that depression is a dark beast that lies to you and provides you with only exaggerated negative and little or no positive. I cannot take these feelings away from you, but you might offer some resistence to the beast by using your intellect. Since you have chosen to live for one more day, you might as well do it in a positive and constructive way using all of what little God has given you to work with.
- Scott
Posted by ChicagoKat on December 1, 2012, at 11:08:56
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by SLS on December 1, 2012, at 9:07:56
> > I will eventually spiral down until I become homeless and addicted to crack or meth or something. And then it won't be long til I die.
>
> Perhaps. Not today, though.
>
> Just remember that depression is a dark beast that lies to you and provides you with only exaggerated negative and little or no positive. I cannot take these feelings away from you, but you might offer some resistence to the beast by using your intellect. Since you have chosen to live for one more day, you might as well do it in a positive and constructive way using all of what little God has given you to work with.
>
>
> - ScottThanks SO much Scott. I always appreciate your advice so very much. And you are completely, utterly right this time. I call depression the 100lb evil hairy demon that lives on my back.
I've learned one good thing: when the depression gets really bad, I play my favorite music really LOUD. It brings joy to my heart and because all I can really do is listen to the music b/c it is so loud, it stops my mind from giving in to the beast.
Thanks again, hope you are well,
Kat
Posted by ssritaker on December 1, 2012, at 11:42:49
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing » SLS, posted by ChicagoKat on December 1, 2012, at 11:08:56
Listening to messages in music , is better than any CBT, listening to someone else,s pain has %80 of song writer,s are depressives.In some songs you can see inside the brain of the composer.You think i could have written that myself at times, is so close to how you feel.I have used song composer,s has theropist all my life .
Posted by gilmourr on December 1, 2012, at 11:48:13
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by ssritaker on December 1, 2012, at 11:42:49
If I was like this, I'd probably go inpatient. Though in Canada I wouldn't end up with a $10,000 bill so I'm not sure whether you can check yourself in without adding piles of debt.
Also, have you looked at electric therapies? rTMS, VNS, MST, ECT? You sound like you're in really bad shape.
I've left ECT for the option when I've gone through all meds and other therapies. But it's really variable. Some people have ABSOLUTE success, others have mild success and permanent side effects. Right now, you seem to be having a really hard time though
Posted by gilmourr on December 1, 2012, at 11:50:35
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by ssritaker on December 1, 2012, at 11:42:49
Accidently read this post before your reply about ECT. Yeah if you've done ECT then nevermind. I'm not sure if it would prevent your body from taking meds.
rTMS works well too, check it out.
Posted by ChicagoKat on December 1, 2012, at 15:31:32
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by ssritaker on December 1, 2012, at 11:42:49
> Listening to messages in music , is better than any CBT, listening to someone else,s pain has %80 of song writer,s are depressives.In some songs you can see inside the brain of the composer.You think i could have written that myself at times, is so close to how you feel.I have used song composer,s has theropist all my life .
That is so cool to meet someone else who also finds it therapeutic to listen to music composed by someone who obviously is also depressed. 'Restless Heart Syndrome' by Green Day is my theme song - have you ever heard it?
Posted by ChicagoKat on December 1, 2012, at 15:36:43
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by gilmourr on December 1, 2012, at 11:48:13
> If I was like this, I'd probably go inpatient. Though in Canada I wouldn't end up with a $10,000 bill so I'm not sure whether you can check yourself in without adding piles of debt.
>
> Also, have you looked at electric therapies? rTMS, VNS, MST, ECT? You sound like you're in really bad shape.
>
> I've left ECT for the option when I've gone through all meds and other therapies. But it's really variable. Some people have ABSOLUTE success, others have mild success and permanent side effects. Right now, you seem to be having a really hard time thoughThanks for the post gilmourr. You are right, I'm in pretty bad shape, but today my misery is pretty much the same as it usually is. For some reason last night I just go so very much worse. It's so comforting to have people here on PB who care, and offer advice and support.
There's no way I'll go inpt. It makes me far more ddepressed than I already am and does nothing positive for me. Not to mention the thousands that you must pay, even if you are covered by health insurance. I do like outpt programs though, and on Mondy I'm going to check out one my pdoc recommended.
And I had ECT. NEVER AGAIN. It made my condition worse. It was a nightmare. and TMS, from what I've read, is not always very efficacious, and the ones it does tend to help are those with mild to moderate depression, not those who have severe depression as I do.
But thanks again, I really appreciate the support. Hope you are well, and that Nardil is behaving itself!
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on December 1, 2012, at 15:38:46
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by gilmourr on December 1, 2012, at 11:50:35
> Accidently read this post before your reply about ECT. Yeah if you've done ECT then nevermind. I'm not sure if it would prevent your body from taking meds.
It is truly strange the way ECT affected me. I am not making it up when I tell you that my meds completely stopped working after it. And that I developed a revulsion for alcohol right after it too. But that is a good thing, considering I was binge drinking as a crutch beforehand. Just really weird, huh?
Kat
Posted by SLS on December 1, 2012, at 17:02:00
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing » SLS, posted by ChicagoKat on December 1, 2012, at 11:08:56
> > > I will eventually spiral down until I become homeless and addicted to crack or meth or something. And then it won't be long til I die.
> >
> > Perhaps. Not today, though.
> >
> > Just remember that depression is a dark beast that lies to you and provides you with only exaggerated negative and little or no positive. I cannot take these feelings away from you, but you might offer some resistence to the beast by using your intellect. Since you have chosen to live for one more day, you might as well do it in a positive and constructive way using all of what little God has given you to work with.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Thanks SO much Scott. I always appreciate your advice so very much. And you are completely, utterly right this time. I call depression the 100lb evil hairy demon that lives on my back.
>
> I've learned one good thing: when the depression gets really bad, I play my favorite music really LOUD. It brings joy to my heart and because all I can really do is listen to the music b/c it is so loud, it stops my mind from giving in to the beast.You know yourself best. Do whatever it takes.
> Thanks again, hope you are well,
No complaints.
:-)
Be merciful with yourself.
- Scott
Posted by gilmourr on December 1, 2012, at 18:14:19
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing » gilmourr, posted by ChicagoKat on December 1, 2012, at 15:38:46
> > Accidently read this post before your reply about ECT. Yeah if you've done ECT then nevermind. I'm not sure if it would prevent your body from taking meds.
>
> It is truly strange the way ECT affected me. I am not making it up when I tell you that my meds completely stopped working after it. And that I developed a revulsion for alcohol right after it too. But that is a good thing, considering I was binge drinking as a crutch beforehand. Just really weird, huh?
> Kat
>
All I know is that people don't avoid things or say certain things unless they aren't true (well in the health/medical setting unless they're mixing it up with placebo, like I feel a bit tired or I think I have a headache. Obviously this isn't placebo).Maybe it affected the neurons in your head to send/receive neurotransmitters. As I'm not sure it would affect your metabolic system like...
pill >> stomach >> liver pass 1 >> liver pass 2>> through the BBB >> then the neurons do their little neurotransmitter dance and you start to feel well.
Something must be wrong at the neuron level.
I'd really try and see a specialist about this. It's super complicated.
I'd even do some research myself but atm I'm busy enough reading every pubmed article about why I'm shivering 24/7 (when I'm not cold and it's not a Nardil side effect).
Posted by gilmourr on December 1, 2012, at 18:18:07
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by gilmourr on December 1, 2012, at 18:14:19
> > > Accidently read this post before your reply about ECT. Yeah if you've done ECT then nevermind. I'm not sure if it would prevent your body from taking meds.
> >
> > It is truly strange the way ECT affected me. I am not making it up when I tell you that my meds completely stopped working after it. And that I developed a revulsion for alcohol right after it too. But that is a good thing, considering I was binge drinking as a crutch beforehand. Just really weird, huh?
> > Kat
> >
>
>
> All I know is that people don't avoid things or say certain things unless they aren't true (well in the health/medical setting unless they're mixing it up with placebo, like I feel a bit tired or I think I have a headache. Obviously this isn't placebo).
>
> Maybe it affected the neurons in your head to send/receive neurotransmitters. As I'm not sure it would affect your metabolic system like...
>
> pill >> stomach >> liver pass 1 >> liver pass 2>> through the BBB >> then the neurons do their little neurotransmitter dance and you start to feel well.
>
> Something must be wrong at the neuron level.
>
> I'd really try and see a specialist about this. It's super complicated.
>
> I'd even do some research myself but atm I'm busy enough reading every pubmed article about why I'm shivering 24/7 (when I'm not cold and it's not a Nardil side effect).
>I also was going to say good luck, but sh*t, luck really doesn't fix this stuff ever. Have to be proactive the entire way through, and it's super difficult when you're chained to your bed. I've been there.
I couldn't even prepare a university appeal for a subject I failed because I was literally too depressed to go in and write it. Couldn't prepare it for 5 months even though I had all the documentation just because I couldn't type/prepare words and argue my case. Luckily I've got so much evidence that 5 months later they made a special exception and it got removed from my transcript.
I did the entire 20 page appeal in one day when Nardil kicked in :) Even sent it in the same day.
Posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2012, at 18:53:41
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by gilmourr on December 1, 2012, at 18:18:07
No thyroid issues? I have hypo and always cold. Just a thought. Phillipa
Posted by gilmourr on December 2, 2012, at 7:43:33
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing » gilmourr, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2012, at 18:53:41
> No thyroid issues? I have hypo and always cold. Just a thought. Phillipa
Nope, TSH levels were 2.02 I believe, or within normal range. Doc wouldn't test Free T3 or T4 levels. He'd let me do it if I paid for it. But I doubt the chance of that. I believe it may be what I posted last on my thread above about vitamin b6 can't be low or high, it needs to be in a therepeutic window
Posted by ChicagoKat on December 2, 2012, at 14:04:17
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by gilmourr on December 1, 2012, at 18:14:19
gilmourr, i think you are prob right about what may have happened. and i am well aware that it is a strange reaction.
i would like to investigate the matter further, but that idea has been put on the backburner b/c living with, dealing with, and trying to find a solution to my depression has consumed most of my time :(
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on December 2, 2012, at 14:05:49
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing, posted by gilmourr on December 1, 2012, at 18:18:07
It's really nice, gilmourr, that you understand what it is like when things are bad. But I hope you continue to feel better..
Kat
Posted by Prefect on December 2, 2012, at 22:14:43
In reply to Re: About. Ready. To. Give. Up. Warning:depressing » gilmourr, posted by ChicagoKat on December 2, 2012, at 14:05:49
Kat,
If your experience is like mine, the good times and the bad times alternate. The good never goes on forever, and neither does the bad.
And when things are bad, all I have to do is try to remind myself how much I like life when things are good. And I owe it to that person (the one who loves life when it's good) to hang in there until things are good again. Because damn, those times are worth waiting for, even for months or a year or two. I've been there before, and I'll be there again.
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