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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 15, 2012, at 17:35:05
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by ChicagoKat on October 15, 2012, at 17:18:04
I'd like to see a randomised, bouble blind, placebo controled trial on this, rather than one shrinks hunch......
Posted by poser938 on October 15, 2012, at 17:44:38
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by ChicagoKat on October 15, 2012, at 17:18:04
> Interesting...if it's true, I've definitely got it.
> KatI know I have it.
Here's another article from Pubmed.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21459521
Posted by ChicagoKat on October 15, 2012, at 18:50:27
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by poser938 on October 15, 2012, at 17:44:38
> > Interesting...if it's true, I've definitely got it.
> > Kat
>
> I know I have it.
>
> Here's another article from Pubmed.
> www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21459521That's just the article that the dude from your first article was quoted from. And it's just based on a literature search. Even he says we need to have a randomized placebo-controlled study performed on this.
I agree with Jono, and with the author of this article, a scientific study needs to be performed. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'd love to see such a study performed, and even more, I'd love to see such a study come to a negative conclusion, b/c the alternative is scary!
Kat
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 15, 2012, at 18:58:00
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by ChicagoKat on October 15, 2012, at 18:50:27
I'm not saying this guy is wrong, just that there needs to be acientific confirmation before they start people panicing (and potentialy stopping life saving medication)
Posted by poser938 on October 15, 2012, at 19:00:44
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by ChicagoKat on October 15, 2012, at 18:50:27
I'd love to have an official study done, too.
I don't think I am the only one, especially as that other guy on this site believes he has had this problem.
But who would do the study? A drug company? How would you be able to keep something like what Eli Lilly did with Prozac from happening. I don't know if it is true but apparently it was discovered that they hid some of the negative results from trials they did on Prozac.
When there is enough money involved any one can win out.Really, though. Why would it be impossible for these meds to affect someones brain like this? Especially after knowing about tardive dyskinesia, why should it be thought of as impossible?
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 15, 2012, at 19:03:41
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by poser938 on October 15, 2012, at 19:00:44
I dont think anyone is saying its impossible, merely that the multiple of ancedote isnt evidence
Posted by poser938 on October 15, 2012, at 19:05:38
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 15, 2012, at 18:58:00
And if this does come out and this warning is put on antidepressants, or they may get outright banned, what would be the next option for drug companies? To put it on the fast track to come out with better meds . Rather than continue milkng their profits on all these underperforming medications they have been puting out.
Posted by Phil on October 15, 2012, at 19:09:02
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by poser938 on October 15, 2012, at 19:00:44
How do they know one from the other? People aren't tested before taking meds.
Just a question but how does anyone know where the patient started?
If I'm depressed then stop the meds and still depressed I have depression. How do we know if the treatment caused it?
I'm a bit too simple to figure this one out.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 15, 2012, at 19:10:48
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by poser938 on October 15, 2012, at 19:05:38
"these underperforming medications they put out"
The suicide rate dropped by about half when tricyclics and MAOI's ht the market between 1958 and 1962
The drugs we have work exceptionaly well for severe biochemical depression, and reasonably well for moderate reactive depression. What they cant do is cure every unhappiness of the human spirit, which is how a lot of doctors seem to be using them these days
Posted by poser938 on October 15, 2012, at 19:19:47
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by Phil on October 15, 2012, at 19:09:02
For me, it bsically went like this:
Starting point- mild depression
I wasva fully functional person with a few social issues with kids at school.
I didn't view this as a small problem until after about 6 weeks of starting psychiatric meds.
After the meds had their full effect on me I started having severe problems. Couldn't stasy in school a whole day.I stopped school work completely. I no longer got joy out of many of the things I did before I started the meds. So I stopped them.Weeks went by. I didn't feel any better. Months went by and I still felt horrible.. I decided to try meds again and to make a long story short I was made even worse.
Oh and I forgot to mention that I had a brilliant response in the biginning of taking them. I regretted that I hadn't started hem sooner.. in the beginning.
Posted by poser938 on October 15, 2012, at 19:25:55
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 15, 2012, at 19:10:48
They hardly work better than a placebo. You and I might have different standards for the word 'underperforming', but I count this as not performing very well.
Posted by phidippus on October 15, 2012, at 19:36:16
In reply to Tardiv-Dysphoria, posted by poser938 on October 15, 2012, at 12:10:42
Is this what you have?
Eric
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 15, 2012, at 19:38:35
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by poser938 on October 15, 2012, at 19:25:55
In mild neurotic depression they hardly work better than placebo, in severe depression that causes people to suicide they are far superior to placebo.
The lesson there is that people with mild depression should be given reasurance and counseling, but not drugs.
This has been a problem since the begining of medicine, first we used alcohol and opium, then bromides and chloral, then barbiturates, then amphetamines, then valium, and now its the SSRI's - people go to their doctor because they are unhappy with life, and he feels he has to do "somthing", so he gives them a pill - when he probably shouldnt
Posted by phillipa on October 15, 2012, at 21:05:03
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 15, 2012, at 19:38:35
Exactly Phillipa
Posted by ChicagoKat on October 15, 2012, at 21:18:38
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 15, 2012, at 19:10:48
> The drugs we have work exceptionaly well for severe biochemical depression, and reasonably well for moderate reactive depression. What they cant do is cure every unhappiness of the human spirit, which is how a lot of doctors seem to be using them these days
'I think they found another cure
For broken hearts and feeling insecure'-Green Day
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 15, 2012, at 22:07:46
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link » jono_in_adelaide, posted by ChicagoKat on October 15, 2012, at 21:18:38
And of course the drug companies have encouraged this prescribing of powerful drugs for mild illness, because it makes them $$$$
Its like antibiotics - people go to the doctor with a head cold, and should be given some Dristan and 2 days off of work, and instead they get Levaquin or Septra or Augmentin
Posted by ChicagoKat on October 16, 2012, at 7:25:47
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 15, 2012, at 22:07:46
> And of course the drug companies have encouraged this prescribing of powerful drugs for mild illness, because it makes them $$$$
>
> Its like antibiotics - people go to the doctor with a head cold, and should be given some Dristan and 2 days off of work, and instead they get Levaquin or Septra or AugmentinI know, it's like they use cannons when a BB gun will suffice
Posted by Phil on October 16, 2012, at 9:23:39
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 15, 2012, at 22:07:46
Good comparison and antibiotics are not exactly safe either.
Posted by poser938 on October 16, 2012, at 16:46:49
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link, posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 15, 2012, at 19:38:35
> In mild neurotic depression they hardly work better than placebo, in severe depression that causes people to suicide they are far superior to placebo.
>
> The lesson there is that people with mild depression should be given reasurance and counseling, but not drugs.
>
> This has been a problem since the begining of medicine, first we used alcohol and opium, then bromides and chloral, then barbiturates, then amphetamines, then valium, and now its the SSRI's - people go to their doctor because they are unhappy with life, and he feels he has to do "somthing", so he gives them a pill - when he probably shouldntI like to imagine a day when a side effect of antidepressants isn't depression or suicidal thoughts.
I don't really plan on this warning being put on these meds any time soon. It won't happen at least until they do come out with medications that are better and the statute of limitations are up.
I can't wait for the day they look back on these current meds and say 'what the heck were we thinking!?"
Posted by poser938 on October 16, 2012, at 16:56:14
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria » poser938, posted by phidippus on October 15, 2012, at 19:36:16
> Is this what you have?
>
> EricAnd yes this is what I have.
And I just got back from my pychiatrists office. Remember how I asked on here if Effexor had given me tardive dyskinesia? With the muscle movements in my face.
Well I straight up aked her today if it is TD, and she said yes it is.She was telling me how her and my pharmacist were talking about how I have the most unique brain chemistry of any patient she has ever had.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on October 16, 2012, at 17:47:16
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria, posted by poser938 on October 16, 2012, at 16:56:14
"I can't wait for the day they look back on these current meds and say 'what the heck were we thinking!?"
Monoamine reuptake inhibitors have been in use since 1959, I think if this side effect was going to be recognised, it would have been recognised some time during the last 50 years.
If it does exist it must be extremelt rare
The multiple of ancedoet is not evidence
Posted by phillipa on October 16, 2012, at 18:29:46
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link » jono_in_adelaide, posted by Phil on October 16, 2012, at 9:23:39
That's for sure as the loss of smell & taste is believed to have come from 2 years of biaxin xl, and levoquin makes me literally nuts. Phillipa
Posted by Phil on October 16, 2012, at 18:56:58
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link » Phil, posted by phillipa on October 16, 2012, at 18:29:46
Girl you always been nuts. : ) Yeah I had a really bad experience with Avelox.
Posted by phillipa on October 16, 2012, at 20:55:41
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link » phillipa, posted by Phil on October 16, 2012, at 18:56:58
Phil I did well til menopause, lymes, and thyroid went all at the same time. That's when had to stop Nursing which I loved. And was a Nationally Certified Psych RN when being inpatient was a good thing. Not anymore for sure. Horrible hospitals. Phillipa
Posted by Phil on October 16, 2012, at 22:53:20
In reply to Re: Tardiv-Dysphoria link » Phil, posted by phillipa on October 16, 2012, at 20:55:41
As we get older and healthcare dollars get tighter I'm not sure what will happen. It won't be good.
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