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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Roslynn on September 7, 2012, at 10:40:44
Hi, I am on my 8th day of 15mg, having horrible dizzy/lightheadedness. I am supposed to increase now to 30mg but I am so worried this will get even worse!
Anyone know if it will worse as I increase the dose?
What can I do for dizzy/lightheadedness?? Can I take dramamine?
Thank you for any help!
Roslynn
Posted by enndub on September 7, 2012, at 14:03:38
In reply to Nardil dizziness PLS Help!!, posted by Roslynn on September 7, 2012, at 10:40:44
Yes, it will likely get worse if you increase the dose to 30mg.
No, Dramamine will not help as it is blood pressure issues causing the dizziness. Drinking lots water or Gatorade and eating lots of salt should help somewhat, but mostly you have to wait it out.
Posted by SLS on September 7, 2012, at 14:08:12
In reply to Nardil dizziness PLS Help!!, posted by Roslynn on September 7, 2012, at 10:40:44
> Hi, I am on my 8th day of 15mg, having horrible dizzy/lightheadedness. I am supposed to increase now to 30mg but I am so worried this will get even worse!
The hypotension might get worse. I would call your doctor to come up with an alternate treatment plan. Perhaps you should remain at 15 mg longer. Have you already tried Parnate? Marplan?
Florinef (fludrocortisone) is a drug that is given to people on Nardil to prevent hypotension.
I find that the hypotension that appears early in Parnate treatment disappears over time whereas that of Nardil persists, albeit becoming less severe. I would not be able to predict how you will react to continued treatment with Nardil. Most people do not experience hypotension so early.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 7, 2012, at 14:45:15
In reply to Nardil dizziness PLS Help!!, posted by Roslynn on September 7, 2012, at 10:40:44
Hi.
By the way, why was Nardil chosen as a treatment?
- Scott
Posted by Roslynn on September 7, 2012, at 16:39:27
In reply to Re: Nardil dizziness PLS Help!! » Roslynn, posted by SLS on September 7, 2012, at 14:45:15
Hi Scott,
Thanks so much for your replies. I have treatment resistant depression, have tried most everything else except the MAOIs and ECT/Rtms. So, I guess the MAOI is a last resort. Not sure why my pdoc went with Nardil rather than the others.
I have been basically housebound since starting Nardil, not even able to shop, cook ,etc. It has been 8 days, seems to be getting worse not better.
Roslynn
> Hi.
>
> By the way, why was Nardil chosen as a treatment?
>
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Roslynn on September 7, 2012, at 16:41:08
In reply to Re: Nardil dizziness PLS Help!! » Roslynn, posted by enndub on September 7, 2012, at 14:03:38
> Yes, it will likely get worse if you increase the dose to 30mg.
>
> No, Dramamine will not help as it is blood pressure issues causing the dizziness. Drinking lots water or Gatorade and eating lots of salt should help somewhat, but mostly you have to wait it out.How long to wait it out? It has been 8 days and I am still housebound from the side-effects.
Roslynn
Posted by SLS on September 7, 2012, at 17:22:49
In reply to Re: Nardil dizziness PLS Help!! » SLS, posted by Roslynn on September 7, 2012, at 16:39:27
You know, you might actually respond to 15 mg/day. It would take 3 weeks to know for sure. In the old days, doctors would test a patient's blood pressure and use the results as a gauge to determine proper dosing of the MAOI. A drop of 10% or more upon orthostatic challenge (standing up) was taken to indicate sufficient MAO inhibition. I imagine yours is greater than 10%.
The other possibility is that your autonomic nervous system is out of balance (dysautonomia) due to the depressive disorder. If this is the case, you might actually feel better at the higher dosage with less dizziness. However, I don't feel it is appropriate to test this hypothesis at this point.
If it were me, I would talk to my doctor and come to a mutual decision as to how many more days to continue with Nardil treatment at 15 mg/day. Do you think you could hold out another 5 - 7 days? I would definitely ask your doctor about adding Florinef at this juncture. This might allow you to continue with Nardil and slowly raise the dosage.
If Nardil doesn't work out, I would then try Parnate before moving to another class of drug.
- Scott
Posted by gilmourr on September 8, 2012, at 2:15:27
In reply to Re: Nardil dizziness PLS Help!!, posted by SLS on September 7, 2012, at 17:22:49
That's crazy. 15 mg doing that much damage? I started at 45 mg had like no side effects except sedation and some memory issues.
60 mg is a little bit worse with some minor urinary retention.
Sometimes you just don't get a med that works with you. I was on Parnate for 21 days (30 mg) I had like hyperthermia, slept for 15-16 hours a day, 0 energy, I couldn't even go on the computer, I wanted to die on parnate.
Posted by Roslynn on September 8, 2012, at 12:11:56
In reply to Re: Nardil dizziness PLS Help!!, posted by gilmourr on September 8, 2012, at 2:15:27
It is crazy. I am extremely med-sensitive.
I do wonder if it could be interacting with my other meds... lithium 675mg, Seroquel 100mg, ativan 2-4 mg. So it's not like I'm *just* taking the Nardil.
> That's crazy. 15 mg doing that much damage? I started at 45 mg had like no side effects except sedation and some memory issues.
>
> 60 mg is a little bit worse with some minor urinary retention.
>
> Sometimes you just don't get a med that works with you. I was on Parnate for 21 days (30 mg) I had like hyperthermia, slept for 15-16 hours a day, 0 energy, I couldn't even go on the computer, I wanted to die on parnate.
Posted by Roslynn on September 8, 2012, at 12:23:36
In reply to Re: Nardil dizziness PLS Help!!, posted by SLS on September 7, 2012, at 17:22:49
Hi Scott,
I really appreciate your knowledge.
I don't think I can hold out any longer on this med. I am constantly on the verge of vomiting (sorry) all day and I'm having to sleep sitting up. Tried drinking more fluids/salt, it just makes me feel sick.
Does Florinef increase blood pressure?
Thank you for your suggestion of Parnate...I wasn't sure if MAOIs were still a possibility for me given my reaction to Nardil.
Thank you,
Roslynn> You know, you might actually respond to 15 mg/day. It would take 3 weeks to know for sure. In the old days, doctors would test a patient's blood pressure and use the results as a gauge to determine proper dosing of the MAOI. A drop of 10% or more upon orthostatic challenge (standing up) was taken to indicate sufficient MAO inhibition. I imagine yours is greater than 10%.
>
> The other possibility is that your autonomic nervous system is out of balance (dysautonomia) due to the depressive disorder. If this is the case, you might actually feel better at the higher dosage with less dizziness. However, I don't feel it is appropriate to test this hypothesis at this point.
>
> If it were me, I would talk to my doctor and come to a mutual decision as to how many more days to continue with Nardil treatment at 15 mg/day. Do you think you could hold out another 5 - 7 days? I would definitely ask your doctor about adding Florinef at this juncture. This might allow you to continue with Nardil and slowly raise the dosage.
>
> If Nardil doesn't work out, I would then try Parnate before moving to another class of drug.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Posted by Roslynn on September 8, 2012, at 17:23:53
In reply to Re: Nardil dizziness PLS Help!!, posted by SLS on September 7, 2012, at 17:22:49
Scott,
Sorry for another question, but what about Marplan? Does anyone still use Marplan? Is Parnate considered a better drug? Do they have different side effect profiles?
Or what about Selegiline in tablet form (I was allergic to the ENSAM adhesive)? I will of course ask my doctor but I was just wondering your opinion.
Thank you,
Roslynn
> If Nardil doesn't work out, I would then try Parnate before moving to another class of drug.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 8, 2012, at 17:47:00
In reply to Re: Nardil dizziness PLS Help!!, posted by Roslynn on September 8, 2012, at 17:23:53
Ask your doc tor for a script for Florinef, 0.1mg, one tab each morning
Compression stockings can also help
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2012, at 8:15:11
In reply to Nardil dizziness PLS Help!!, posted by Roslynn on September 7, 2012, at 10:40:44
> Hi, I am on my 8th day of 15mg, having horrible dizzy/lightheadedness. I am supposed to increase now to 30mg but I am so worried this will get even worse!
>
> Anyone know if it will worse as I increase the dose?
>
> What can I do for dizzy/lightheadedness?? Can I take dramamine?
>
> Thank you for any help!
>
> Roslynn
>
> Roslyn,
You wrote,[...PlS help...Thank you for any help...].
I can help you by posting here support and education. Be advised, that I think that support is not the same as reinforcement and that there are many prohibitions to me here from Mr Hsiung that could prevent me from posting here what I think could save your life or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction.
But being as it is and as it may be, the drugs you are taking could cause your death. They could induce an altered mind-state that could compel you to kill your self and/or others. The psychiatrist/doctor/prescriber that has you taking Seroquel, lithium and ativan and Nardil together has given you central nervous system depressants and respiratory depressants that when taken together magnify their effects.
But let it be with that psychiatrist/doctor/prescriber. I came to post here what IMHO could save your life, not to add drugs to the ones that you are taking, or modify them or tell you that there is a drug for you but you have not found it yet.
Let us look at Nardil. Do you have any idea what is the chemical constituancy of Nardil? It comes from {Hydrazine}. In fact, it is {Phen} {ethyl} {hydrazine}. Now I have posted here a little bit about some of the chemicals involved but was stopped by Mr Hsiung before I could get into the depths of what the chemicals are and what they do to the human body. You could do a search like {Lou, thalidomide] or such and find the thread for such or use some other search criteria or go to the admin board and go back until you find the thread that has the prohibition. There is another prohibition to me by Mr Hsiung so that I can not post the link to the post that I want to.
But let's go on with Nardil. Nardil has the chemical construction that can induce liver failure and hepatitus and kidney damage and seizures and coma and CNS damage and steatosis and in rats can cause cancer. Hydrazine is a chemical componant in explosives, jet engine fuel, artillary guns, pesticides, and can be made from bleach combined with urea or produced from amonia.
And in your case, the combining of the drugs can cause death. Now what could outweigh the risk of death? What could outweigh the risk of getting tardive dyskinesia? Or liver failure or kidney damage?
Could you stop the drugs? If you have taken them for awaile, you could go into withdrawal and be in such a miserable condition that you could have thoughts of killing yourself. So now what? Are you going to keep on druggin' so that (redacted by respondent) can abound?
You asked for help. There can be healing but I am prohibited here from posting what could IMHHO bring that healing to you because of the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung. So I request that you go to the prescriber of all of those drugs that you take and ask:
A. If this Lou guy is right on psychobabble, will you pay me for any pain and suffereing that I could have from taking these drugs such as tardive dyslinkesia?
B. Will you provide me with the means to go someware to get through a withdrawal period if I stop the drugs and pay me for the suffering that I may have to endure?
C. Could you contact this Lou guy and have a discussion with him a to how I could be healed and then forward that to me since he is prohibitied from posting about that healing on the PB forum? It would come from a Jewish perspective that he is prohibited from posting concerning a commandment from the god that the Jews give service and worship to and the commandment is to him an not others, that has been revealed to him.
D. If you do not now how the drugs "work" (whatever that could mean), what is your rationale for participating in giving out mind-altering chemicals that caused 42,000 deaths last year alone, and if the advertising keeps getting new clients for these drugs, that figure combined with past and future deaths from these drugs could be in the millions.
E. Do you give these drugs to children?
F. How many of your clients have died or got tardive dyskinesia/dystonia or liver or kidney damage?
F. redacted by respondent
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2012, at 9:30:35
In reply to Lou's response-whuduyutruz » Roslynn, posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2012, at 8:15:11
> > Hi, I am on my 8th day of 15mg, having horrible dizzy/lightheadedness. I am supposed to increase now to 30mg but I am so worried this will get even worse!
> >
> > Anyone know if it will worse as I increase the dose?
> >
> > What can I do for dizzy/lightheadedness?? Can I take dramamine?
> >
> > Thank you for any help!
> >
> > Roslynn
> >
> > Roslyn,
> You wrote,[...PlS help...Thank you for any help...].
> I can help you by posting here support and education. Be advised, that I think that support is not the same as reinforcement and that there are many prohibitions to me here from Mr Hsiung that could prevent me from posting here what I think could save your life or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> But being as it is and as it may be, the drugs you are taking could cause your death. They could induce an altered mind-state that could compel you to kill your self and/or others. The psychiatrist/doctor/prescriber that has you taking Seroquel, lithium and ativan and Nardil together has given you central nervous system depressants and respiratory depressants that when taken together magnify their effects.
> But let it be with that psychiatrist/doctor/prescriber. I came to post here what IMHO could save your life, not to add drugs to the ones that you are taking, or modify them or tell you that there is a drug for you but you have not found it yet.
> Let us look at Nardil. Do you have any idea what is the chemical constituancy of Nardil? It comes from {Hydrazine}. In fact, it is {Phen} {ethyl} {hydrazine}. Now I have posted here a little bit about some of the chemicals involved but was stopped by Mr Hsiung before I could get into the depths of what the chemicals are and what they do to the human body. You could do a search like {Lou, thalidomide] or such and find the thread for such or use some other search criteria or go to the admin board and go back until you find the thread that has the prohibition. There is another prohibition to me by Mr Hsiung so that I can not post the link to the post that I want to.
> But let's go on with Nardil. Nardil has the chemical construction that can induce liver failure and hepatitus and kidney damage and seizures and coma and CNS damage and steatosis and in rats can cause cancer. Hydrazine is a chemical componant in explosives, jet engine fuel, artillary guns, pesticides, and can be made from bleach combined with urea or produced from amonia.
> And in your case, the combining of the drugs can cause death. Now what could outweigh the risk of death? What could outweigh the risk of getting tardive dyskinesia? Or liver failure or kidney damage?
> Could you stop the drugs? If you have taken them for awaile, you could go into withdrawal and be in such a miserable condition that you could have thoughts of killing yourself. So now what? Are you going to keep on druggin' so that (redacted by respondent) can abound?
> You asked for help. There can be healing but I am prohibited here from posting what could IMHHO bring that healing to you because of the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung. So I request that you go to the prescriber of all of those drugs that you take and ask:
> A. If this Lou guy is right on psychobabble, will you pay me for any pain and suffereing that I could have from taking these drugs such as tardive dyslinkesia?
> B. Will you provide me with the means to go someware to get through a withdrawal period if I stop the drugs and pay me for the suffering that I may have to endure?
> C. Could you contact this Lou guy and have a discussion with him a to how I could be healed and then forward that to me since he is prohibitied from posting about that healing on the PB forum? It would come from a Jewish perspective that he is prohibited from posting concerning a commandment from the god that the Jews give service and worship to and the commandment is to him an not others, that has been revealed to him.
> D. If you do not now how the drugs "work" (whatever that could mean), what is your rationale for participating in giving out mind-altering chemicals that caused 42,000 deaths last year alone, and if the advertising keeps getting new clients for these drugs, that figure combined with past and future deaths from these drugs could be in the millions.
> E. Do you give these drugs to children?
> F. How many of your clients have died or got tardive dyskinesia/dystonia or liver or kidney damage?
> F. redacted by respondent
> Lou
>
> Friends,
If you may be following what I have been posting about and could be a parent trying to decide if or if not to drug your son, your daughter, or one who is wanting information that could be supressed here by Mr Hsiung as in his prohibitions posted to me here.
It is very difficult for me to post in the environment that is plainly visible here as it is being allowed for others here to post (redacted by respondent)about me. But being as it may be, there are facts that you can use to make intelligent decisions based on facts that overide any feelings that can be seen in posts here that write about me.
Here are a few facts about Nardil combined with ativan (which is a benzodiazepine). You may be a caretaker for an elderly parent, or an adult child or a spouse. You can use what follows to try to decide if or if not you want the person that you are a cartaker for to be drugged in this manner.
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/nardil-and-ativan/suicidal-ideation
http://www.ehealthme.com/nardil-and-ativan/hypertensive-crisis
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2012, at 10:37:53
In reply to Lou's response-warning, posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2012, at 9:30:35
> > > Hi, I am on my 8th day of 15mg, having horrible dizzy/lightheadedness. I am supposed to increase now to 30mg but I am so worried this will get even worse!
> > >
> > > Anyone know if it will worse as I increase the dose?
> > >
> > > What can I do for dizzy/lightheadedness?? Can I take dramamine?
> > >
> > > Thank you for any help!
> > >
> > > Roslynn
> > >
> > > Roslyn,
> > You wrote,[...PlS help...Thank you for any help...].
> > I can help you by posting here support and education. Be advised, that I think that support is not the same as reinforcement and that there are many prohibitions to me here from Mr Hsiung that could prevent me from posting here what I think could save your life or prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition or addiction.
> > But being as it is and as it may be, the drugs you are taking could cause your death. They could induce an altered mind-state that could compel you to kill your self and/or others. The psychiatrist/doctor/prescriber that has you taking Seroquel, lithium and ativan and Nardil together has given you central nervous system depressants and respiratory depressants that when taken together magnify their effects.
> > But let it be with that psychiatrist/doctor/prescriber. I came to post here what IMHO could save your life, not to add drugs to the ones that you are taking, or modify them or tell you that there is a drug for you but you have not found it yet.
> > Let us look at Nardil. Do you have any idea what is the chemical constituancy of Nardil? It comes from {Hydrazine}. In fact, it is {Phen} {ethyl} {hydrazine}. Now I have posted here a little bit about some of the chemicals involved but was stopped by Mr Hsiung before I could get into the depths of what the chemicals are and what they do to the human body. You could do a search like {Lou, thalidomide] or such and find the thread for such or use some other search criteria or go to the admin board and go back until you find the thread that has the prohibition. There is another prohibition to me by Mr Hsiung so that I can not post the link to the post that I want to.
> > But let's go on with Nardil. Nardil has the chemical construction that can induce liver failure and hepatitus and kidney damage and seizures and coma and CNS damage and steatosis and in rats can cause cancer. Hydrazine is a chemical componant in explosives, jet engine fuel, artillary guns, pesticides, and can be made from bleach combined with urea or produced from amonia.
> > And in your case, the combining of the drugs can cause death. Now what could outweigh the risk of death? What could outweigh the risk of getting tardive dyskinesia? Or liver failure or kidney damage?
> > Could you stop the drugs? If you have taken them for awaile, you could go into withdrawal and be in such a miserable condition that you could have thoughts of killing yourself. So now what? Are you going to keep on druggin' so that (redacted by respondent) can abound?
> > You asked for help. There can be healing but I am prohibited here from posting what could IMHHO bring that healing to you because of the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung. So I request that you go to the prescriber of all of those drugs that you take and ask:
> > A. If this Lou guy is right on psychobabble, will you pay me for any pain and suffereing that I could have from taking these drugs such as tardive dyslinkesia?
> > B. Will you provide me with the means to go someware to get through a withdrawal period if I stop the drugs and pay me for the suffering that I may have to endure?
> > C. Could you contact this Lou guy and have a discussion with him a to how I could be healed and then forward that to me since he is prohibitied from posting about that healing on the PB forum? It would come from a Jewish perspective that he is prohibited from posting concerning a commandment from the god that the Jews give service and worship to and the commandment is to him an not others, that has been revealed to him.
> > D. If you do not now how the drugs "work" (whatever that could mean), what is your rationale for participating in giving out mind-altering chemicals that caused 42,000 deaths last year alone, and if the advertising keeps getting new clients for these drugs, that figure combined with past and future deaths from these drugs could be in the millions.
> > E. Do you give these drugs to children?
> > F. How many of your clients have died or got tardive dyskinesia/dystonia or liver or kidney damage?
> > F. redacted by respondent
> > Lou
> >
> > Friends,
> If you may be following what I have been posting about and could be a parent trying to decide if or if not to drug your son, your daughter, or one who is wanting information that could be supressed here by Mr Hsiung as in his prohibitions posted to me here.
> It is very difficult for me to post in the environment that is plainly visible here as it is being allowed for others here to post (redacted by respondent)about me. But being as it may be, there are facts that you can use to make intelligent decisions based on facts that overide any feelings that can be seen in posts here that write about me.
> Here are a few facts about Nardil combined with ativan (which is a benzodiazepine). You may be a caretaker for an elderly parent, or an adult child or a spouse. You can use what follows to try to decide if or if not you want the person that you are a cartaker for to be drugged in this manner.
> Lou
> http://www.ehealthme.com/nardil-and-ativan/suicidal-ideation
> http://www.ehealthme.com/nardil-and-ativan/hypertensive-crisis
>
> Friends,
If you are following this in regards to obtaining facts concerning these drugs, here is a link to Seroquel with it's potential to cause tardive dykinesia.
Now you could be indoctrinated here by the administraton that has prohibited me from posting what IMHO could save lives, prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions. So what is supportive can be controlled by the administration by
A. prohibiting me from posting facts
B. prohiiting me from posting what the bible prescribes to those that take mind-altering drugs and those that traffic in them such a those that dispense them or offer as medication to clients or manufacture them
C. Allowing statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings to stand
D. Allowing members to suggest to (redacted by respondent) that can cause death.
E. Allow others to post what could constitute (redacted by respondent), which could then effect your thinking about what I write here concerning warnings and such.
F. redacted by respondent
Now if you could see the facts, then I think that you could make a more informed decision as to use these drugs or not for yourself or to have others take that you are responsible for such as a child or parent. If you are wanting more information, please go to the administative board here and read my posts that have outstanding requests from me to Mr Hsiung and then if you post in those threads, I could respond to you there for you to have more information.
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/seroquel/tardive+dyskinesia
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.