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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tomatheus on August 21, 2012, at 9:10:55
I was wondering if anyone here with a depressive disorder has tried Marinol or marijuana for their condition. If you've tried Marinol and/or marijuana, what results did you notice as far as your depressive symptoms were concerned? Specifically, how did it affect your energy, thinking speed, and sleep? And if you've tried both Marinol and marijuana, how did the two drugs differ?
Just for the record, I probably won't be trying either Marinol or marijuana any time soon, but I was curious as to what kinds of antidepressant benefits people here have noticed from using cannabinoid drugs.
Tomatheus
Posted by Phillipa on August 21, 2012, at 10:00:05
In reply to Marinol or marijuana for depression, posted by Tomatheus on August 21, 2012, at 9:10:55
I only know of those that used these meds for intractible pain. I'd not heard of it used for depression. Would like to follow. Phillipa
Posted by Tomatheus on August 21, 2012, at 14:56:35
In reply to Re: Marinol or marijuana for depression » Tomatheus, posted by Phillipa on August 21, 2012, at 10:00:05
Phillipa,
As I understand it, there are some case reports of Marinol being used to treat depression, but no randomized controlled trials demonstrating its efficacy. Also, according to one published source (Blass, 2008), patients have reported experiencing antidepressant and anxiolytic effects from marijuana in "numerous surveys and interviews," despite the fact that some studies have found that marijuana consumption increases the risk of developing depression and anxiety. So, although I would characterize the evidence supporting the use of cannabinoids for depression as being limited, I wouldn't say that the evidence is nonexistent.
Thank you for replying. I think it might be interesting to see what antidepressive benefits people here have noticed from Marinol and/or marijuana, assuming that I get some replies from people with experience using the drugs.
Tomatheus
==
REFERENCE
Blass, K. (2008). Treating depression with cannabinoids. Cannabinoids, 3, 8-10. Article: http://www.furiousseasons.com/documents/potstudy.pdf
Posted by SLS on August 21, 2012, at 16:41:29
In reply to Marinol or marijuana for depression, posted by Tomatheus on August 21, 2012, at 9:10:55
Marinol is a pure THC isomer. It is THC that is the substance that acts as a psychotomimetic and might induce or exacerbate schizophrenia.
Cannabidiol (CBD) is the constituent of the marijuana plant that possesses therapeutic properties to treat various psychiatric conditions. Cannabis Indica has a CBD/THC ratio 4-5 times that of Cannabis Sativa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol
One would probably be better off smoking Cannabis Indica than taking Marinol to treat depression and anxiety. Of course, I am not suggesting that you smoke marijuana. ;-)
- Scott
Posted by Tomatheus on August 21, 2012, at 17:17:25
In reply to Re: Marinol or marijuana for depression » Tomatheus, posted by SLS on August 21, 2012, at 16:41:29
Scott,
Thank you for the information on cannabidiol and cannabis indica. I was aware that THC might induce or exacerbate psychotic symptoms, but I'm curious about its potential as a treatment for depression, specifically depressions with vegetative features like mine. The information in the published report that I referred to in my reply to Phillipa indicated that Marinol/THC might be a useful treatment for depressive disorders, and so I was wondering what experiences if any others on Psycho-Babble have had with THC-containing substances.
Marinol or a strain of marijuana with a lower CBD/THC ratio could quite possibly exacerbate my psychotic symptoms if I were to try it, and that's one of the reasons why I probably won't be trying either Marinol or marijuana any time soon. However, I do think that activating the cannabinoid receptors could hold some promise for the treatment of depressive disorders. I don't have documentation of this readily available, but I've read that the cannabinoid receptor antagonist rimonabant is actually more effective as an inducer of depression than antidepressant medications are as treatments for depression. Wouldn't that suggest that a substance that activates the cannabinoid receptors might have antidepressant effects?
As far as psychosis is concerned, I do think that utilizing a strain of cannabis that's high in cannabidiol (an indica strain, as you indicated) would be a more sound strategy than using Marinol or a strain of marijuana that's high in THC. And the risks of using Marinol or marijuana (especially a strain that's high in THC) may very well outweigh the benefits for many individuals. However, I do think for the reasons that I described in the previous paragraph that THC may hold some promise as an antidepressant, and I think that targeting the cannabinoid system with agonists or partial agonists might some help some individuals who are unresponsive to other forms of treatment.
Tomatheus
Posted by schleprock on August 21, 2012, at 19:54:45
In reply to Re: Marinol or marijuana for depression » SLS, posted by Tomatheus on August 21, 2012, at 17:17:25
I've seen a report of someone stating that they had suffered 2 years of derealization after smoking marijuana.
Posted by Tomatheus on August 21, 2012, at 20:38:35
In reply to Re: Marinol or marijuana for depression, posted by schleprock on August 21, 2012, at 19:54:45
Schleprock,
Thank you for your reply. I too have come across cases of marijuana-induced depersonalization. I wonder if Marinol would involve the same risk.
Tomatheus
Posted by brynb on August 21, 2012, at 21:12:02
In reply to Marinol or marijuana for depression, posted by Tomatheus on August 21, 2012, at 9:10:55
> I was wondering if anyone here with a depressive disorder has tried Marinol or marijuana for their condition. If you've tried Marinol and/or marijuana, what results did you notice as far as your depressive symptoms were concerned? Specifically, how did it affect your energy, thinking speed, and sleep? And if you've tried both Marinol and marijuana, how did the two drugs differ?
Hi Tomatheus,My response is a robust "no". But that's my personal experience. I never tried Marinol, but I smoked a lot of pot in my late teens and twenties and found that it eventually made me foggy, low-energy, paranoid (very!) and just all around down. In fact, it seemed to magnify and exacerbate anything negative that was going on in my head.
Since we're all different, I'm sure it's possible you'll have a different experience, but I just wanted to share mine.
-b
Posted by Tomatheus on August 21, 2012, at 21:25:25
In reply to Re: Marinol or marijuana for depression » Tomatheus, posted by brynb on August 21, 2012, at 21:12:02
Brynb,
Thank you for your reply. Feeling foggy and low in energy are certainly not what I'd be looking to achieve from using marijuana, Marinol, or any other potential treatment for my depressive symptoms -- in fact, what I want is the opposite. And certainly, given the fact that I've got psychotic symptoms to contend with, some extra paranoia wouldn't be very welcome either. I think that you're right that my response to marijuana could be different from yours, but the kind of response that you had leaves me wanting to re-evaluate whether or not marijuana or Marinol would be helpful.
Tomatheus
Posted by johnLA on August 21, 2012, at 21:34:09
In reply to Marinol or marijuana for depression, posted by Tomatheus on August 21, 2012, at 9:10:55
hi t-
well, i researched the heck out of using mj for depression. (i know nothing about marinol.)
as far as the research i found it was split down the middle. this was for depression/anxiety only. my original pdoc did not frown on it and she was pretty 'old school' as far as age, experience, treatment philosophy, etc.
the key seems to be the right strain and to use as little as possible.
so, i went and got a legal prescription for it. i was a bit disappointed when i went to to the local dispensary; it was full of young people who were no real help when i asked which strain would work best for depression.
i tried it a few times. initially it was just ok. allowed me to go down on my klonopin dose for sleep.
but! the last time i smoked i smoke too much and went to a very bad place in my head. it was not pleasant at all and really broke my heart because i used to smoke a little bit in the past and it always made me happy and alive (before depression).
as an aside, when i did my ketamine infusion last month the 'high' was similar to getting stoned on mj in some ways. just a bit stronger visual perception distortion which i really didn't like. i kept my eyes closed most of the time during the infusion.
if you suffer from any kind of psychosis almost all the literature says do not use mj to treat. it could trigger some nasty stuff i suppose.
again, my experience is with marijuana only, not marinol.
john
Posted by johnLA on August 21, 2012, at 21:37:30
In reply to Re: Marinol or marijuana for depression, posted by johnLA on August 21, 2012, at 21:34:09
t-
here is my old thread on my marijuana experiment;
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20120108/msgs/1006932.html
john
Posted by Tomatheus on August 21, 2012, at 22:07:50
In reply to Re: Marinol or marijuana for depression, posted by johnLA on August 21, 2012, at 21:34:09
John,
Thank you for your replies and for directing me to the thread that you started, which detailed your trial with medical marijuana. I think that there was a lot of useful information in your thread, and I also think that your accounts of the benefits and drawbacks that you noticed from using marijuana were helpful. I must admit that as the replies to this thread have come in, my curiosity about the potential antidepressive benefits from marijuana and/or Marinol has diminished some. That's not to say that I don't think that some might notice antidepressant benefits from marijuana and other cannabinoids, but I'm starting to think that one's chances of benefiting from a drug that acts on the cannabinoid system might not be as good as I was thinking that they might be.
Tomatheus
Posted by AlexanderS on August 24, 2012, at 13:04:39
In reply to Marinol or marijuana for depression, posted by Tomatheus on August 21, 2012, at 9:10:55
Cannabis Sativa has been the only drug so far that truly lifts my depression.
The feeling of freshness and alertness is great. The short term memory takes a hit though.
I wouldn't use as a day to day drug, but for me it was wonderful as a occasional high when some friends would invite me over for a smoke.
Indigo is more calming and sedating, while Sativa gives a feeling of freshness and alertness, but might also create anxiety in some.
I don't know where to get any though :(
Posted by Tomatheus on August 24, 2012, at 14:18:52
In reply to Re: Marinol or marijuana for depression, posted by AlexanderS on August 24, 2012, at 13:04:39
AlexanderS,
Thank you for your reply. It's good to hear from somebody who's had a positive experience with marijuana, even though you wouldn't recommend the drug for day-to-day use. I think it's interesting how marijuana can affect different users in different ways, as the case tends to be with a lot of drugs (including medications).
Thanks again for the feedback,
Tomatheus
Posted by phidippus on August 27, 2012, at 23:01:45
In reply to Marinol or marijuana for depression, posted by Tomatheus on August 21, 2012, at 9:10:55
I am bipolar and have OCD and I have tried Marijuana to treat depressive episodes. I'd like to think I had some success. I found the marijuana conferred a certain amount of euphoria, which smashed my depression. I became more talkative and just seemed to enjoy things more-everything felt enhanced. Marijuana revs me up and tends to make me horny, so I 'd say I experienced an increase in energy. As far as my cognition was affected, I can only say I got a little dumb-its not that I didn't comprehend the world, it just became a little slowed. After the initial high wears off, I sleep like a baby.
I have not had Marinol.
Eric
Posted by Tomatheus on August 27, 2012, at 23:11:49
In reply to Re: Marinol or marijuana for depression, posted by phidippus on August 27, 2012, at 23:01:45
Eric,
Thank you for sharing your experience with me (and anyone else who reads your post). As I've said, I probably won't be trying marijuana and/or Marinol any time soon, but it was helpful to hear how the drug affected you.
Tomatheus
This is the end of the thread.
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