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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by psychobot5000 on May 8, 2012, at 22:20:25
In reply to Re: ECT: ultra-brief pulse cognitive side-effects, etc, posted by papillon2 on May 6, 2012, at 23:35:55
Thanks all for your experiences and notes so far. I'm still considering it (what else can I do?), but am a bit more wary than before. Fortunately, re: disorientation, I live in a city with an excellent public transportation system, so I shouldn't need rides. Hopefully. There also should be more than one clinic (and thus, type) available.
I am a bit disconcerted to find that most ECT in the US is still bilateral.
Papillon, do you happen to know anything of the types of ECT used on those acquaintances of yours for whom it worked? Was there a final reason you chose not to do ECT yourself?
Psychbot
Posted by papillon2 on May 9, 2012, at 19:14:23
In reply to Re: ECT: time to do it? Experiences? » papillon2, posted by psychobot5000 on May 8, 2012, at 22:20:25
> Fortunately, re: disorientation, I live in a city with an excellent public transportation system, so I shouldn't need rides. Hopefully.
The hospital is unlikely to let you leave by yourself. In fact they usually insist that someone looks after you for the rest of the day.
> Papillon, do you happen to know anything of the types of ECT used on those acquaintances of yours for whom it worked?
They all had right-unilateral ECT, including the people who reacted badly to it. Depending on whether or not they were involved in a study, the ECT may have been:
- brief pulse (standard form in this hospital and the control) or
- ultra-brief pulse; and
- the standard form of anesthesia (control) or
- the standard form of anesthesia combined with another agent such as ketamine.Here's one write-up:
http://m.taj.sagepub.com/content/3/2/69.abstract?sid=7094fe8c-33f4-4281-ac87-1e4ee9d88a1b> Was there a final reason you chose not to do ECT yourself?
I have always wanted to exhaust other more palatable options first, but it was never really my decision whether or not to have ECT. I had been in hospital for 4 months with a number of failed drug trials and although a voluntary patient they were considering having me sectioned for ECT for various reasons.
It was eventually decided that the risks of ECT outweighed the benefits, as I was re-experiencing trauma from previous involuntary, long-term hospitalizations as a teenager.
Posted by JohnLA on May 9, 2012, at 20:03:44
In reply to ECT: ultra-brief pulse cognitive side-effects, etc, posted by psychobot5000 on May 4, 2012, at 18:55:27
hi there-
i had 12 right uni-lateral ect's 2 years ago. not sure if it was brief or ultra-brief.
first, it unfortunately did not work. well, it worked for a few days and then i relapsed. by the 12th i was not getting any benefits like the first 2 or 3, so i stopped.
i had some memory problems from the time surrounding the treatments. 1 bizarre experience was going to see 'get him to the greek' and realizing a few weeks later i i didn't remember a single scene from the film. i watched the trailer and it scared me that not one scene looked familiar. i remember going to the theatre w/my friend, but absolutely no memory of seeing the film. by the way, my friend said i liked it and laughed quite a bit. wild.
the actual ect is not very scary. i have had several surgeries so going under is not a big deal for me. argh. i had it done at UCLA which is one of the best supposedly. the doc and staff were all very kind. i did lose it on the first one; i was crying like a baby. but, eventually i got used to the whole thing.
would i recommend it? maybe. i am a little bitter that i was only 2 months in to my first ever depressive episode and was 'talked in to' ect while i was voluntarily in-patient. looking back, even though i was claiming suicidal thoughts, i had only tried 3 or 4 ssri's and klonopin at that point. seems early for ect now with what i have learned since.
the idea of ect is very seductive for us suffering from depression. i have mentioned this quote before from my old high school football coach; 'i would give my left nut... (fill-in the blank; in this case) for relief from my depression.'
i am now at 26 months in to my depression. i find myself thinking about ect again sometimes even though it didn't work for me. i'm desperate.
as far as long-term issues i really believe i have none. my concentration and memory problems now are due to my severe depression and the bit of klonopin i use each day, not the ect. how can i say this? because there are times where my concentration is fine. if i had 'permanent damage' i believe this would not be the case.
it's a hard decision. like i said, i wish i hadn't done it now. but, i was scared and confused. i remember george harrison speaking about his lsd experience. he said there is life before lsd and life after lsd. meaning it was a very significant life experience. i feel the same about ect.
let me know if you have any more questions regarding my experience.
good luck in whatever you choose.
john
Posted by Jeroen on May 15, 2012, at 6:04:33
In reply to Re: ECT: time to do it? Experiences? » papillon2, posted by psychobot5000 on May 8, 2012, at 22:20:25
ECT = brain damage guaranteed! sorry to say but its true
and memory loss
Posted by Phil on May 15, 2012, at 7:00:39
In reply to ECT = brain damage guaranteed!, posted by Jeroen on May 15, 2012, at 6:04:33
Posted by psychobot5000 on May 15, 2012, at 14:07:32
In reply to ECT = brain damage guaranteed!, posted by Jeroen on May 15, 2012, at 6:04:33
> ECT = brain damage guaranteed! sorry to say but its true
>
> and memory lossJeroen, I agree that the evidence is pretty clear that cognitive side-effects occur, but do you have a source for the brain damage claim?
-P
Posted by Jeroen on May 15, 2012, at 14:16:21
In reply to Re: ECT = brain damage guaranteed! » Jeroen, posted by psychobot5000 on May 15, 2012, at 14:07:32
yes, i've seen cases who people cant talk normal anymore, memory loss, and eventually killed themselves, thank you for reading!
Posted by JohnLA on May 15, 2012, at 16:55:11
In reply to ECT = brain damage guaranteed!, posted by Jeroen on May 15, 2012, at 6:04:33
not my experience at all.
i can still speak, read and think clearly.
i just read a 500 page book...
my depression has effected me way more than the course of ect i did.
jeroen; many things come in to play with ect. the type, the # you have, the shock doc, etc.
*TRIGGER*
i had mine done at ucla. here is the team that did my ect. (yes, i know this is a 'promo' for ect @ ucla). listen what the doctor has to say at the 2:00 min mark about brain damage. i trusted dr espinoza. he made no promises about it working. but, he did tell me it would not cause any permanent harm. and, i didn't.
ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekzSnADL5kg
finally, each person's experience is unique. a blanket statement that ect causes permanent damage and memory loss guaranteed is simply not true. if it is, list some studies/etc. it is easy to find people/sites that say ect ruined there lives. i have to wonder how great somebody's life was before ect, if they chose to do it. i was way suicidal. i still am, but nowhere near as much as before i had ect.
i'm very sorry for the people you knew that had adverse reactions to ect.
john
Posted by Zyprexa on May 29, 2012, at 21:31:11
In reply to ECT = brain damage guaranteed!, posted by Jeroen on May 15, 2012, at 6:04:33
> ECT = brain damage guaranteed! sorry to say but its true
>
> and memory lossI belive that and I've had a lot of ECT. They should be baned.
Posted by Zyprexa on May 29, 2012, at 21:36:15
In reply to Re: ECT = brain damage guaranteed! YES, posted by Jeroen on May 15, 2012, at 14:16:21
> yes, i've seen cases who people cant talk normal anymore, memory loss, and eventually killed themselves, thank you for reading!
I belive that.
Jeroen have you tried ECT? Are you witnessing this in the hospital? Wish I could remember more of my visits, but they gave me so many ECTs.
Posted by psychobot5000 on May 29, 2012, at 23:28:52
In reply to Re: ECT = brain damage guaranteed! YES » Jeroen, posted by Zyprexa on May 29, 2012, at 21:36:15
> > yes, i've seen cases who people cant talk normal anymore, memory loss, and eventually killed themselves, thank you for reading!
>
> I belive that.
>
> Jeroen have you tried ECT? Are you witnessing this in the hospital? Wish I could remember more of my visits, but they gave me so many ECTs.Zyprexa, do you mind if I ask what type of ECT you've had? i.e. Unilateral or bilateral? Amplitude? Type of pulse? (i.e. brief, ultra-brief, sine-wave) Anything you could remember would be helpful.
Posted by Zyprexa on May 30, 2012, at 19:09:39
In reply to Re: ECT = brain damage guaranteed! YES » Zyprexa, posted by psychobot5000 on May 29, 2012, at 23:28:52
They never told me what kind of ECT they were giving me. In fact they didn't even ask if i wanted them. I was in mental hospital in Canada, even though I had signed my self into hospital, they never consulted with me on anything. Just take these pills and wisked me off on gurney in early morning. The only thing I know of it was that they gave me morphine. Also I don't remember much about that time when getting ECTs. Infact I didn't even know they were giving me ECTs in the first hospital stay, which was 3 months. I do remember at one time they put jell on head and this big helmit which was suposted to read brain waves or something. Not sure if it had anything to do with the ECTs.
Posted by Zyprexa on May 30, 2012, at 19:11:04
In reply to Re: ECT = brain damage guaranteed! YES » Zyprexa, posted by psychobot5000 on May 29, 2012, at 23:28:52
One thing I can tell you is it all happened in 1997. So what ever the practice was back then.
Posted by Phillipa on May 30, 2012, at 20:25:45
In reply to Re: ECT = brain damage guaranteed! YES, posted by Zyprexa on May 30, 2012, at 19:11:04
You've recovered now thought from the ECT? Phillipa
Posted by Zyprexa on May 30, 2012, at 22:17:26
In reply to Re: ECT = brain damage guaranteed! YES » Zyprexa, posted by Phillipa on May 30, 2012, at 20:25:45
I don't think I've fully recovered from the ECT. I've gotten better and recived some memory back, but I'm sure not all.
Posted by TiredofChemicals on May 30, 2012, at 22:36:12
In reply to respectfully disagree..., posted by JohnLA on May 15, 2012, at 16:55:11
I hope, not to sound harsh or negative but, for me, that was the final option that the doctors presented to me while I was in the psych ward.
I was really desperate and was considering going through with ECT. The timing didn't present the opportunity for me to go through with it. I was traveling often at the time and I wasn't in a position to go through with it.
Well....my travels landed me far from that particular hospital and I ended up in a different state with psychiatric treatment that differed greatly from where I was originally hospitalized.
So there I sat, slowly moving away from psychiatry with a great deal of time on my hands to ruminate and suffer with "depression".
I am in a better state now than I was then but I still struggle. The diagnosis's they gave me were 1) Psychotic depression and 2) bipolar.
I came to realize that I don't agree with the cookie cutter diagnosis's and have had what some may call a revelation. Others might just say "What a moron".Anyways, I'm glad I did not go through with it. I had already had a 95% failure rate while being treated by psychiatry over a ten year period.
Not sure I contributed anything here, just sharing my experience.Be gentle with me. eeeeeek!!!!
Kind regards
Posted by Phillipa on May 30, 2012, at 23:54:41
In reply to Re: ECT = brain damage guaranteed! YES » Phillipa, posted by Zyprexa on May 30, 2012, at 22:17:26
Zyprexa is it good or bad you think? Parents fill you in or try to? I'm sorry Phillipa
Posted by Zyprexa on June 1, 2012, at 0:20:42
In reply to Re: ECT = brain damage guaranteed! YES » Zyprexa, posted by Phillipa on May 30, 2012, at 23:54:41
I think ECTs are the worst form of medicine. They did nothing good to me and took away my life. I could not function after that, still can't fully, and its been 15 years since my last one. Just wish they had zyprexa in Canada back then. I probably would have never been in hospital. You know the sick thing is they had given me a script for zyprexa in the USA before I went back to canada. But my dad never filled it because, well I don't know why. But we went right back to canada after visiting the the american psychiatrist.
Yes my parents filled me in on some of what was happening at the time. I don't remember much of that time when I spent a half year in mental wards.
Posted by Phillipa on June 1, 2012, at 18:56:19
In reply to Re: ECT = brain damage guaranteed! YES » Phillipa, posted by Zyprexa on June 1, 2012, at 0:20:42
Zyprexa how sad. This is before moving to USA? Seems the Canadian health system from what others have said isn't that good. I don't know this though. Half a year in hospital if only you had the med then. Phillipa
Posted by Zyprexa on June 2, 2012, at 3:54:00
In reply to Re: ECT = brain damage guaranteed! YES » Zyprexa, posted by Phillipa on June 1, 2012, at 18:56:19
Yes I agree, just wish I had had it then.
Posted by xean on June 3, 2012, at 18:53:24
In reply to Re: ECT = brain damage guaranteed! YES » Phillipa, posted by Zyprexa on June 2, 2012, at 3:54:00
Memory loss is a leading side affect but many people with drug resistant severe depression have benefited from ECT. sometimes you have to weigh the risks. Being suicidal everyday or take the risk of some memory loss.Many people have benefited from this procedure and begin to live a normal life again.
Posted by psychobot5000 on June 3, 2012, at 19:43:34
In reply to Re: ECT =and brain damage, posted by xean on June 3, 2012, at 18:53:24
> Memory loss is a leading side affect but many people with drug resistant severe depression have benefited from ECT. sometimes you have to weigh the risks. Being suicidal everyday or take the risk of some memory loss.Many people have benefited from this procedure and begin to live a normal life again.
I agree with most of what you say, but finding good data on long-term outcomes is difficult, re: both side-effects and treatment success. Have you had an ECT experience, by any chance? Positive? Negative? Side-effects?
Posted by xean on June 3, 2012, at 19:46:21
In reply to Re: ECT =and brain damage » xean, posted by psychobot5000 on June 3, 2012, at 19:43:34
No but I have read alot and viewed documentaries
Posted by Phil on June 3, 2012, at 20:44:51
In reply to Re: ECT =and brain damage » psychobot5000, posted by xean on June 3, 2012, at 19:46:21
My mother, 30 years ago, called me at my work which she never did. She was slurring her words and crying and I freaked out. She was a recovering alcoholic and I thought she had started drinking again. I told her I was on my way and drove two hours to where she lived.
She had a very steep fall into the worst depression I've ever seen. I knew nothing about psychiatry or ECT and called psychiatrists at random trying to get any info. I never got to talk to any of them.
I think that ECT saved her and her memory remained sharp...much better than mine.
My brothers thought that she was not quite the same afterwards but like her youngest son, me, her life was no picnic. Maybe ECT affected her somehow or maybe the accumulation of life circumstances just caught up with her. I didn't notice a big difference in her behavior. I was just glad that the option was there.
Posted by psychobot5000 on June 3, 2012, at 21:26:04
In reply to Re: ECT =and brain damage, posted by Phil on June 3, 2012, at 20:44:51
Thanks Zyprexa, Tired of Chemicals, Xean, Phil, and any others I am probably forgetting, who have recently responded to the query.
ECT is not an easy decision. I can't say this thread has so far made my own decision markedly clearer, but I think threads like these are useful, and the many intelligent comments add to our sum aggregate of knowledge on this issue.
-p> My mother, 30 years ago, called me at my work which she never did. She was slurring her words and crying and I freaked out. She was a recovering alcoholic and I thought she had started drinking again. I told her I was on my way and drove two hours to where she lived.
> She had a very steep fall into the worst depression I've ever seen. I knew nothing about psychiatry or ECT and called psychiatrists at random trying to get any info. I never got to talk to any of them.
> I think that ECT saved her and her memory remained sharp...much better than mine.
> My brothers thought that she was not quite the same afterwards but like her youngest son, me, her life was no picnic. Maybe ECT affected her somehow or maybe the accumulation of life circumstances just caught up with her. I didn't notice a big difference in her behavior. I was just glad that the option was there.
This is the end of the thread.
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