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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Shes_Initforthemoney on February 26, 2012, at 23:10:40
I was wondering....is the feeling of social isolation growing up in the suberbs a universal feeling? I know it is here in N. America:
"Growing up it all seems so one-sided
Opinions all provided
The future pre-decided
Detached and subdivided
In the mass production zone
Nowhere is the dreamer or the misfit so alone"Here is an awesome acoustic version of the song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4vd9OVLO7Q
I'd love to read your responses. This was a definite experience for me. My feelings of social isolation seemed to really come out in the 7th to 9th grade. Music was my rebellion...my way of telling those groups of kids to 'take off'.."I am me..100 percent true...idealistic..and they will NEVER break me!"
Jay
Posted by sigismund on February 27, 2012, at 0:18:22
In reply to Do you feel like this.?(C'mon pls answer), posted by Shes_Initforthemoney on February 26, 2012, at 23:10:40
You probably know of Gabor Mate.
It's not just you.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20110926/msgs/1011678.html
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 7:52:43
In reply to Do you feel like this.?(C'mon pls answer), posted by Shes_Initforthemoney on February 26, 2012, at 23:10:40
It was the first kiss for both of us.
We never really talked about it afterward.
But I think about the events of that day
again and again,
and somehow I know that Winnie does too,
whenever some blowhard starts talking about
the anonymity of the suburbs
or the mindlessness of the TV generation,
because we know
that inside each one of those identical boxes,
with its Dodge parked out front
and its white bread on the table
and its TV set glowing blue in the falling dusk,
there were people with stories,
there were families bound together in the pain and
the struggle of love,
there where moments that made us cry with laughter,
and there were moments,
like that one,
of sorrow and
wonder.
The Wonder Years
Episode 1
Posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2012, at 9:55:13
In reply to No, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 7:52:43
Donna Reed, White Picket Fence, an apron. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 10:16:06
In reply to Re: No, posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2012, at 9:55:13
People are people wherever they are. They have joys and problems of people. The suburbs aren't unique in having a culture. I wouldn't want, as someone who doesn't much like country pursuits, to try to fit into rural life.
Everyone can feel alienated. It isn't confined to suburbia.
It's also a rather broad brush. There are all sorts of suburbs. I can't recall many, if any, picket fences growing up. And I can only think of one mom who remotely resembled Donna Reed.
I'm not fond of stereotypes. I find life so much richer when engaged at on an individual level.
Posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2012, at 20:24:23
In reply to Re: No » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 10:16:06
Dinah that is precious better to say it was in our minds that the white picket fence and the other factors would exist and they didn't. But that was what we wanted. TV was new then and Donna Reed was the Idol of those times where we learned how we surely would live. Phillipa
Posted by Beckett on February 28, 2012, at 8:54:17
In reply to Do you feel like this.?(C'mon pls answer), posted by Shes_Initforthemoney on February 26, 2012, at 23:10:40
Many people I grew up with seemed content with the status quo in our suburb. I sought escape in music and was happy when I was old enough to take the train into Manhatten and no longer be stared at. What a relief not to be a freak but to actually become quite tame by city standards.
Posted by Dinah on February 28, 2012, at 9:01:35
In reply to Well, sort of.... » Shes_Initforthemoney, posted by Beckett on February 28, 2012, at 8:54:17
Maybe New Orleans suburbs are less tame?
I suppose that's possible. I remember when we were thinking of moving, I was discouraged by the different feel of other cities. I had thought it was a Catholic/Bible Belt difference, but it could be broader than that. I remember telling my therapist that I would stick out like a sore thumb.
But I think even within one city, suburbs vary widely in tolerance of difference. I don't think I could ever live in a subdivision where they measure grass height, or say what kind of plants (or house designs) fit. That's a more recent thing though, isn't it?
I suppose this isn't very medication related though...
Posted by Beckett on February 28, 2012, at 10:06:25
In reply to Re: Well, sort of.... » Beckett, posted by Dinah on February 28, 2012, at 9:01:35
It is a more social/or political topic. Unless one thinks of it as a reason why one is on meds. But then, that might make it more psych....
Posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on February 28, 2012, at 14:10:00
In reply to No, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2012, at 7:52:43
> It was the first kiss for both of us.
> We never really talked about it afterward.
> But I think about the events of that day
> again and again,
> and somehow I know that Winnie does too,
> whenever some blowhard starts talking about
> the anonymity of the suburbs
> or the mindlessness of the TV generation,
> because we know
> that inside each one of those identical boxes,
> with its Dodge parked out front
> and its white bread on the table
> and its TV set glowing blue in the falling dusk,
> there were people with stories,
> there were families bound together in the pain and
> the struggle of love,
> there where moments that made us cry with laughter,
> and there were moments,
> like that one,
> of sorrow and
> wonder.
>
>
> The Wonder Years
> Episode 1
>Dinah:
I can certainly identify with the innocence of youth, but I guess my social experience was so much different. You know of Stephen Colbert? Well, he talked about his youth years in the same way as I. I never had a 'girlfriend' in highschool, and I was just laughed at as some clumsy, very shy, slightly overweight kid. Yes, I was a 'geek'...as they (we) are called..lol. I had a couple of friends, and we usually spent our weekends playing Dungeons & Dragons, listening to usual 'geek' music...'uncool' music (meaning bands with 25 minute songs in 3 time signatures...early Genesis ,Rush, Jethro tull)... Music that usually sent young girls screaming and running in the opposite direction. We ordered a pizza on Saturday nights while having a game of D & D, and the only kind of drink we ever had was root beer. Michael Moore even used that quote from the song 'Subdivisions' in his (non-political) autobiography, which is pretty good. Not suprising, the author of that song by Rush, 'Subdivisions by Neil Peart, was from my hometown here in Ontario. We even went to the same highschool! (But he is 58...I am in my 40's.)
Now, I am not being sexist, but being a woman, it doesn't surprise me you would have been all turned off by those things us geeks, weird social-misfits and all, did. Durkheim described this as 'anomie', but I didn't realize that until college. None of us had girlfriends until we where in our 20's.
If you ever see that movie "I Love You Man", you actually might understand the whole male growing-up-in-the-80's geek-thing..lol. But I wouldn't change a thing, if I where to do it all over again. (Well, I would have liked to have a girlfriend in highschool...rather than spending my time locked in the bathroom with a Cosmopolitan mag...lol!)
Take care...
Jay
Posted by Dinah on February 28, 2012, at 17:27:42
In reply to Re: No...well let me explain 'geekdom' lol » Dinah, posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on February 28, 2012, at 14:10:00
I may not have played dungeons and dragons, or even worn a costume to Star Trek conventions. But I was at the conventions. My geek credentials are decent, if not stellar. My ideal of a dream vacation is Comic Con in San Diego. Moreover, my favorite people also have excellent geek credentials. Smart, funny, a bit off kilter, often socially awkward, and having fierce interest in interesting things. More interested in ideas than appearance.
I also understand alienation. I don't fit in well with others, even now. I doubt I'd have even fit in with your geek friends. I liked Andy Williams in high school. If you think that was any more acceptable than the music you liked, you'd be wrong. At least you were part of a group of people who liked the same thing. Try finding a high school kid in the late seventies who enjoyed chilling out to Hawaiian Wedding Song.
What I don't get is linking that to the suburbs. Do you think you would have been happier in rural or small town communities? I've known some small town communities, and I didn't find them all that geek friendly. I have less experience in urban areas. Perhaps clumsy, shy, slightly overweight kids who play dungeons and dragons have higher social status there.
I was tormented in some of the schools I was at. In other schools, I was tolerated and allowed to find my own niche. But it was a school by school difference. I was only tormented in schools that had uniforms. I've even come up with some theories as to why. But I think I'm jumping to conclusions about an awful lot of schools full of perfectly nice people.
I suppose it's likely that the larger the community the larger, on a purely numerical basis, the chance of finding like minded friends.
For that matter, did you make any attempt to seek out clumsy, shy, slightly overweight (or awkwardly skinny - like me) girls? There are a fair number of females who didn't have a lot of dates in high school too.
School is a hard time, regardless of whether it's suburban, rural, small town, or urban schools. School seems like the entire world and rejection there seems like the end of the world. Kids feel powerless in the face of the social structure of the school. Once school is left behind, people generally (but not always) have more power to choose their own environments.
Posted by Dinah on February 28, 2012, at 18:29:49
In reply to Re: No...well let me explain 'geekdom' lol » Dinah, posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on February 28, 2012, at 14:10:00
That being said, I know how difficult high school can be. I do know how painful it is, and I'm sorry you experienced it as well.
Do you keep in touch with your high school friends? A couple of good friends, IMO, trumps dozens of shallow acquaintances.
Posted by Phillipa on February 28, 2012, at 18:55:35
In reply to Re: No...well let me explain 'geekdom' lol » Shes_InItForTheMoney, posted by Dinah on February 28, 2012, at 18:29:49
On Facebook quite a few of my old high school class contactly me. So friends in that sense only. I hung out with the other high school as first husband went to the Catholic High School. Once he graduated he gave up religion as most of the rest of the class also did. And as for the suburbs you would hate it here for sure. Rules rules rules. Phillipa
Posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on February 28, 2012, at 23:47:38
In reply to Re: No...well let me explain 'geekdom' lol » Shes_InItForTheMoney, posted by Dinah on February 28, 2012, at 18:29:49
> That being said, I know how difficult high school can be. I do know how painful it is, and I'm sorry you experienced it as well.
>
> Do you keep in touch with your high school friends? A couple of good friends, IMO, trumps dozens of shallow acquaintances.
>
>Hi Dinah:
I guess I should have made this thread seem a little more humerus. Honestly, compared to the emotional weight I carry now and what I did in highschool, is a big difference. 'Geek girls' where usually my friends, so I betcha you and I would have gotten on fine. Don't get me wrong...I have some beautiful, cherishing memories of all of the youthful innocence of my teens. The 'Suberbs' thing is actually explained well in the recent video by Arcade Fire. Here are the lyrics:
(again, about loss of innocence..)
"The Suburbs"In the suburbs I
I learned to drive
And you told me we'd never survive
Grab your mother's keys we're leavin'You always seemed so sure
That one day we'd be fighting
In a suburban war
Your part of town against mine
I saw you standing on the opposite shoreBut by the time the first bombs fell
We were already bored
We were already, already boredSometimes I can't believe it
I'm movin' past the feeling
Sometimes I can't believe it
I'm movin' past the feeling againKids wanna be so hard
But in my dreams we're still screamin' and runnin' through the yard
And all of the walls that they built in the seventies finally fall
And all of the houses they built in the seventies finally fall
Meant nothin' at all
Meant nothin' at all
It meant nothinSometimes I can't believe it
I'm movin' past the feeling
Sometimes I can't believe it
I'm movin' past the feeling and into the nightSo can you understand?
Why I want a daughter while I'm still young
I wanna hold her hand
And show her some beauty
Before all this damage is doneBut if it's too much to ask, it's too much to ask
Then send me a sonUnder the overpass
In the parking lot we're still waiting
It's already passed
So move your feet from hot pavement and into the grass
Cause it's already passed
It's already, already passedSometimes I can't believe it
I'm movin' past the feeling
Sometimes I can't believe it
I'm movin' past the feeling againI'm movin' past the feeling
I'm movin' past the feelingIn my dreams we're still screamin'
We're still screamin'
We're still screamin'
Posted by Dinah on February 29, 2012, at 2:39:28
In reply to Re: No...well let me explain 'geekdom' lol » Dinah, posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on February 28, 2012, at 23:47:38
Ah well, you know, I quite like the suburbs. At least the ones I've known. And I quite like suburbanites. So I get a bit protective about them.
I'm willing to concede that I may know particularly nice suburbs with particularly nice people. Though I find that a bit hard to believe...
I'm not the teensiest bit literary, and poetic references usually whiz right by me, I'm afraid. I'm delighted that others find comfort in them of course.
Posted by Dinah on February 29, 2012, at 2:44:34
In reply to Re: No...well let me explain 'geekdom' lol » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on February 28, 2012, at 18:55:35
The Catholic kids I knew grew up to be Catholic adults, so I don't think catholic school scares the religion out of them.
I'd definitely hate a subdivision full of rules. Avoid them like the plague. I'd be filled with an irresistable urge to paint my door blue or plant petunias instead of foliage plants. And I'd always set my lawn mower to at least a half inch over regulation height. ;) I've never seen the appeal of enforced conformity. It's not a part of my suburban experience at all. I really do think that's a more recent lifestyle choice. Or maybe just more recent to here.
Posted by Phillipa on February 29, 2012, at 18:25:31
In reply to Re: No...well let me explain 'geekdom' lol » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on February 29, 2012, at 2:44:34
Dinah this is the only time I encountered such idiots. I'm like you. One lady had her front door painted a different color and she was forced to paint it back as they fine you any day not in compliance. They the association charges dues and included is lawn care but they do such a horrible job I do it myself and cut lower than they do so they can't scalp my lawn. We fertilize ourselves also. At our expense which we can't really afford but their stuff does not work. Seems most of the good areas around here have them it's getting like Florida. Phillipa
Posted by Solstice on February 29, 2012, at 19:00:47
In reply to Re: No...well let me explain 'geekdom' lol » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on February 29, 2012, at 2:44:34
> I'd definitely hate a subdivision full of rules. Avoid them like the plague. I'd be filled with an irresistable urge to paint my door blue or plant petunias instead of foliage plants. And I'd always set my lawn mower to at least a half inch over regulation height. ;) I've never seen the appeal of enforced conformity. It's not a part of my suburban experience at all. I really do think that's a more recent lifestyle choice. Or maybe just more recent to here.that's funny :-) My parents live in a community that is highly restricted. Conformity is *every*thing. The variance in paint and brick colors is so slight that it's laughable that they even have a variance in colors. I tease them - telling them it looks like communism to me :-)
Solstice
Posted by Phillipa on February 29, 2012, at 20:17:58
In reply to Re: No...well let me explain 'geekdom' lol » Dinah, posted by Solstice on February 29, 2012, at 19:00:47
Oh that is called "Cookie Cutter". Yup only thing is the division was marketed as upcoming young adults, empty nesters, and retired. Can you belived that some of the old "f*rts" go to the homes of those that had children, knock on the doors or ring doorbells and tell them their kids should not go out. They should be watching TV. Never ever be seen outside. Were the young and upcoming told they had to sign a contract stating they would have safe sex and couldn't produce a family? No trees but the one in center of front yard and all must be the same. I'm guessing the next rule will be that we must all do the same things at same time of day, wear exactly the same clothes uniforms, and eat the same foods. I do not like it here unfortunately the economy does not allow those that own their homes to sell. All our money is in the home as real estate used to be the best investment and money maker. Surely no more. Phillipa
Posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on March 1, 2012, at 13:14:54
In reply to Re: No...well let me explain 'geekdom' lol » Shes_InItForTheMoney, posted by Dinah on February 29, 2012, at 2:39:28
Hi Dinah:
These, to me, are two really good explanations of how I see growing up in the 'burbs. Please check them out and let me know what you think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Euj9f3gdyM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAnsJJB6Qws
Thanks kindly...:)
Jay
Posted by Dinah on March 1, 2012, at 16:26:39
In reply to Re: No...well.....two great explanations... » Dinah, posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on March 1, 2012, at 13:14:54
Still don't get it.
How do you think your life would have been different growing up in the country? In a small town? In an urban area? What sort of urban area?
If you tell me you despise suburbia, I would say "de gustibus non est disputandum." But if you blame your unhappy childhood on the fact that your parents lived in the suburbs, I'd really have to have it explained to me how life elsewhere would have been so d*mn much better.
This is the end of the thread.
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