![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lepus on February 12, 2012, at 13:09:51
So it looks like Nardil isn't going to work for me. I have severe anxiety, agoraphobia and depression. Nardil was pretty much my last hope since I've been on pretty much every other drug on the market. So what now? Could there be a physical cause no one is finding? Or am I just dead? I've lost most of my life to this. I had so much hope for Nardil. Now I fear my life is over.
Where so you go when you've tried every class of meds? I think ECT is out. I've never heard of it helping anyone and I want to go to grad school. I need a brain to do that.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 12, 2012, at 14:33:14
In reply to Nardil failed - nothing left?, posted by Lepus on February 12, 2012, at 13:09:51
> So it looks like Nardil isn't going to work for me. I have severe anxiety, agoraphobia and depression. Nardil was pretty much my last hope since I've been on pretty much every other drug on the market. So what now? Could there be a physical cause no one is finding? Or am I just dead? I've lost most of my life to this. I had so much hope for Nardil. Now I fear my life is over.
>
> Where so you go when you've tried every class of meds? I think ECT is out. I've never heard of it helping anyone and I want to go to grad school. I need a brain to do that.Lepus,
You wrote,[...I've been on pretty much every other drug on the market...am I just dead?...I've lost most of my life to this...I fear my life is over...Where so you go when you've tried every class of meds?...I need a brain...].
It has been revealed to me what death is. This death that I am referring to is a living death. If that is what you are referring to, then I know of a way that you can have a new life, a new mind and a new heart. You could sing a new song.
But the owner of this site has put up a wall of separation to me with multiple prohibitions that prohibit me from posting educational and supportive material here that IMHHHO could save your life and prevent you from getting a life-ruining condition. This is being done right now, even though the forum is for support and education.
Now if you are looking for another drug, there are poeple here to turn to for their opinions as to what drug will do this or that to some, but maybe not to you. So they have an out if the drug that they want you to take fails or even kills you or gives you aa life-ruining condition. They have the out of saying that everyone is different, so the drug of their advise, may not work.
If the prohibitions from Mr. Hsiung to me were lifted, I could post here how you could overcome the "death" that you could be referring to here. You could look at some of my previous posts or look at my requests to Mr. Hsiung on the administrative board that are outstanding.
So what will you find here from the other members that reply to you? Will you find life? Or will you find just another drug that they say for you to take with the out that the drug might not work for you?
Now if you understand probibility theory, the chances of something happpening is determined by how many "wins" there are over the total amount of possibilities. So if you want to know the chances of drawing the ace of spades in one pick from a fair dack of cards, there is one ace of spades, and there are 52 cards that you could get.So the chances are 1/52 that in one pick you draw the ace of spades.
But in taking drugs, you could take them multiple times each day for possibly years or even until you die. So the chances of getting the ace of spades if you draw 52 times while putting the card that you picked back in the deck is the sum of the chances of each pick. So over 26 days, the chances are even that you draw the ace of spades, for you have 26 X 1/52 which is 26/52 or 1/2 or 50-50.
But suppose we wanted to know the chances of drawing the ace of spades OR the jack of hearts in one pick. Now you have 2 chances to win out of 52. And what if we wanted to know what the chances are of drawing any spade? There are 13 spades so it is 13/51 or 1/4.
Now suppose in taking a drug one could get heart diseaase, diabetes, tardive dyskinesia, or serotonin syndrome or suicide ideation or homocidde thinking. Now if we knew the factors for each, and they are available, then one could calculate the chances of getting one of those from taking the drug each day. This is called {ganbler's ruin} and you could look it up if you like. The research shows that people who take these mind-altering drugs hav a shortened life-span. There is the argument that the illness caused the shortened life-span but I have research showing that it is the drug(s) that cause the shortened life span.
So if the research that I have is correct, by taking the psychotropic drugs, one will die prematurely. There were appox 42,000 people that died from psychotropic drugs last yer. These numbers come from govt stats that are reported. Some think that there are 100 to 1 deaths unreported. That, then, would mean that 4,200,000 people died last year from these drugs. And since more people could take these drugs each year, more than that could die this year and the next year so that going forward, millions of people could die from these drugs. Do you want to take the chances of being one of them? Or one of them that gets diabets, or tardive dyskinesia or other life-ruining conditions or adddicted?
Now the owner of this site, Mr. Hsiung, states that the site is for support and education. You can look at the posts of mine on the admin board here and make your own determination as to what is being supported (redacted by respondent) . Is this a community of life, or (redacted by respondent)?
Lou
Posted by Lepus on February 12, 2012, at 14:36:49
In reply to Lou's response-teykzprecdenz » Lepus, posted by Lou Pilder on February 12, 2012, at 14:33:14
Why is an untreated paranoid schizophrenic allowed to post on these boards freely and harass members while also disrupting conversations?
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 12, 2012, at 14:50:44
In reply to Re: Lou's response-teykzprecdenz, posted by Lepus on February 12, 2012, at 14:36:49
> Why is an untreated paranoid schizophrenic allowed to post on these boards freely and harass members while also disrupting conversations?
Lepus,
You wrote the above.
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond to you.
A. Who is (redacted by respondent) if any?
B. What criteria did you use, if any, to determine that the person has the affliction that you mentioned?
C. How is any converstaion disrupted since you can continue to post what you want?
D. What criteria do you use, if any, to state that something is "harrassment"?
E. If your life could be saved, or you are prevented life-ruining condition or addiction (redacted by respondent)
Lou
Posted by SLS on February 12, 2012, at 14:56:46
In reply to Nardil failed - nothing left?, posted by Lepus on February 12, 2012, at 13:09:51
> So it looks like Nardil isn't going to work for me. I have severe anxiety, agoraphobia and depression. Nardil was pretty much my last hope since I've been on pretty much every other drug on the market. So what now? Could there be a physical cause no one is finding? Or am I just dead? I've lost most of my life to this. I had so much hope for Nardil. Now I fear my life is over.
>
> Where so you go when you've tried every class of meds? I think ECT is out. I've never heard of it helping anyone and I want to go to grad school. I need a brain to do that.If Nardil helps at all, adding nortriptyline and Klonopin might be worth considering. Otherwise, I would look at switching to imipramine and adding a benzodiazepine like Klonopin or Xanax XR.
There is some precedence for the use of imipramine in the treatment of panic disorder with agoraphobia.
Let us know what your doctor has to say.
Don't give up. You'll get there.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 12, 2012, at 15:10:48
In reply to Lou's rsponse- juzwhaddahyumeheen » Lepus, posted by Lou Pilder on February 12, 2012, at 14:50:44
> > Why is an untreated paranoid schizophrenic allowed to post on these boards freely and harass members while also disrupting conversations?
>
> Lepus,
> You wrote the above.
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond to you.
> A. Who is (redacted by respondent) if any?
> B. What criteria did you use, if any, to determine that the person has the affliction that you mentioned?
> C. How is any converstaion disrupted since you can continue to post what you want?
> D. What criteria do you use, if any, to state that something is "harrassment"?
> E. If your life could be saved, or you are prevented life-ruining condition or addiction (redacted by respondent)
> LouFriends,
Now if I could post freely, then I could uncover what could be unbeknownst to some here that IMHHHHO could save their lives or prevent them from getting life-ruining condition or addiction.
Here is a link to a post by another member here that has a link in it that you could follow if you like. Notice what the member admits to about me here.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20110902/msgs/996161.html
Posted by Lepus on February 12, 2012, at 15:44:05
In reply to Re: Nardil failed - nothing left? » Lepus, posted by SLS on February 12, 2012, at 14:56:46
Thank you for your reply, Scott.
I was on imipramine in the past. It worked. Maybe it will work again. I am also currently on Klonopin.
I just don't understand my body. Nardil should be perfect for me. I have atypical depression and panic attacks with agoraphobia. But Nardil is making me feel awful and I'm only at 37.5mg! My anxiety is worse. I can't stay awake. I'm having stomach problems. My face is even breaking out! I hate giving up before reaching at least 45mg but I'm barely functional because I can't stay awake.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 12, 2012, at 15:53:17
In reply to Lou's rsponse-, posted by Lou Pilder on February 12, 2012, at 15:10:48
> > > Why is an untreated paranoid schizophrenic allowed to post on these boards freely and harass members while also disrupting conversations?
> >
> > Lepus,
> > You wrote the above.
> > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond to you.
> > A. Who is (redacted by respondent) if any?
> > B. What criteria did you use, if any, to determine that the person has the affliction that you mentioned?
> > C. How is any converstaion disrupted since you can continue to post what you want?
> > D. What criteria do you use, if any, to state that something is "harrassment"?
> > E. If your life could be saved, or you are prevented life-ruining condition or addiction (redacted by respondent)
> > Lou
>
> Friends,
> Now if I could post freely, then I could uncover what could be unbeknownst to some here that IMHHHHO could save their lives or prevent them from getting life-ruining condition or addiction.
> Here is a link to a post by another member here that has a link in it that you could follow if you like. Notice what the member admits to about me here.
> Lou
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20110902/msgs/996161.htmlLepuus,
You wrote,[...now I feel my life is over...].
I am unsure as to waht you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond to you.
A. What life are you referring to?
1.the life of physical existance?
2.the existing while you feel dead
3.some other life
B. Are you wanting to have your life start anew? If so:
1. Are you wanting someone to tell you to take drugs that will give you a new life?
2. When they tell you, you have to have a doctor prescribe them to you unless you take them without the doctor's advise, do you not? Then if that be the case, could you not just go to your doctor and say that your drugs do not work and see what the prescriber has to say? If you say that a member here told you that you could take such and such, how could that influence the prescriber to do anything other that what he/she would do wothout that advise from a member here?
C. Do you know that benzodiazepines can be addicting? Do you know that xanax and klonazapam are not the easiest drugs to withdrawal from when you become addicted to them and want to stop them?
D. Do you know that many have killed themselves during the withdrawal phase from xanax and klonazapam and other drugs of the so-called antidepressant drugs.
Lou
Here is a video that I would like for you to view. To see this video:
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in:
[Can antidepressants cause violence?, Dr Moria Dolan]
Posted by SLS on February 12, 2012, at 19:06:59
In reply to Re: Nardil failed - nothing left?, posted by Lepus on February 12, 2012, at 15:44:05
> Thank you for your reply, Scott.
>
> I was on imipramine in the past. It worked. Maybe it will work again. I am also currently on Klonopin.
>
> I just don't understand my body. Nardil should be perfect for me. I have atypical depression and panic attacks with agoraphobia. But Nardil is making me feel awful and I'm only at 37.5mg! My anxiety is worse. I can't stay awake. I'm having stomach problems. My face is even breaking out! I hate giving up before reaching at least 45mg but I'm barely functional because I can't stay awake.Do you have any daily responsibilities preventing you from taking a chance on feeling worse by increasing your dosage of Nardil? If you can afford 2-3 days of downtime, you might consider going to 45 mg now to see if the side effects diminish.
- Scott
Posted by polarbear206 on February 12, 2012, at 19:51:20
In reply to Re: Nardil failed - nothing left?, posted by Lepus on February 12, 2012, at 15:44:05
Have you ever augmented an AD with a mood stabilize? Also, have you had a good initial response to AD's and then poop out?
Posted by polarbear206 on February 12, 2012, at 20:15:58
In reply to Re: Lou's response-teykzprecdenz, posted by Lepus on February 12, 2012, at 14:36:49
> Why is an untreated paranoid schizophrenic allowed to post on these boards freely and harass members while also disrupting conversations
Just ignore him. That's what everyone should do, then perhaps he will go away.
Posted by Phillipa on February 12, 2012, at 21:21:31
In reply to Re: Lou's response-teykzprecdenz, posted by polarbear206 on February 12, 2012, at 20:15:58
I know. Phillipa
Posted by Lepus on February 12, 2012, at 23:08:09
In reply to Re: Nardil failed - nothing left? » Lepus, posted by SLS on February 12, 2012, at 19:06:59
I have school. I wonder if I should try it though. Thanks. I will write down the idea to discuss with my pdoc.
Posted by Lepus on February 12, 2012, at 23:09:59
In reply to Re: Nardil failed - nothing left?, posted by polarbear206 on February 12, 2012, at 19:51:20
I have augmented ADs with a mood stabilizer. I'm not on one now though. Maybe I could stay at 30mg and bump the Nardil with something?
Posted by bleauberry on February 13, 2012, at 13:11:33
In reply to Nardil failed - nothing left?, posted by Lepus on February 12, 2012, at 13:09:51
> So it looks like Nardil isn't going to work for me. I have severe anxiety, agoraphobia and depression. Nardil was pretty much my last hope since I've been on pretty much every other drug on the market. So what now? Could there be a physical cause no one is finding? Or am I just dead? I've lost most of my life to this. I had so much hope for Nardil. Now I fear my life is over.
I'm so sorry for the failures and no doubt your hope is rock bottom. Understandable. I do have some ideas. They will not be immediately helpful, but they do offer the very real prospect of actually getting well.
First of all, a bit off topic, but not really, if you have not asked Jesus to be in your fight with you, it's going to continue to be a really hard fight. Talk to Him and invite Him daily. His love and grace is already there, you don't have to do anything to earn it. But what you need is....wisdom. Wisdom to know what to do. He promised to give that to all who ask for it, and He does. You, me, all of us, need the kind of wisdom that can only come from Him.
Let me put a disclaimer out there before I go on....I am not saying you have Lyme disease.
Ok. Now, in stuff like Lyme disease or other similar occult chronic unsuspected infectious pathogens, what happens to their poop, pee, and secreted toxins that protect them from your immune system? All that stuff goes into your blood and then where? To your brain. Think about that. Do you think crap like that might cause bizarre stuff? What would happen if we put a little bit of formaldahyde into your dopamine and serotonin synapses? The toxins of infections are numerous, but some are molecularly very similar to formaldahyde. Some more toxic than that.
So what to do? Well, first off we want to try to manage symptoms. Your entire history has been that, and it hasn't worked. The really important part never got started....dealing with the stuff that could be causing the problems in the first place.
So right off the top of my head, going on instinct and clues in your post, I would maybe take a look at the topic of "detox". Get the crap out of the brain. Do we know for sure there is crap to get rid of? No. Can we test for it? Not reliably. So we do nothing and stay sick? No. We try stuff. The length and severity of the illness justifies that. The failure of conventional approaches justifies that. So we do detox stuff to see. Or whatever, just to see, to rule it in or rule it out. Ok so we go through years of ruling in this med or that med, and it's ok to experiment like that even though we lose every time....but for some reason, we don't rule in or out anything else? That part, I don't get it. Makes no sense. We fail treatments aimed only at symptoms, but never even take a glance at what the real situation might be.
Anyway, if we were at a Lyme forum and someone was describing themselves the way you described yourself it would be like ho-hum, yeah, so what else is new, every one of us with lyme is like that. And it just so happens that many lyme patients do not respond well or at all to psychiatric meds.
I've used lyme as an example to make a point, but there are a dozen or more other cunning occult pathogens that can mimic this scenario. Most of them are sensitive to the same treatments as lyme, so it really doesn't matter if we know what we are dealing with or not. Most people who got completely well never knew for sure what they were dealing with.
Maybe there are excerpts of the book Healing Lyme by Stephen Buhner online? Dunno. Maybe buy the book. Doesn't matter if you have a lyme diagnosis or not, that's not the point. The point is, a whole bunch of stuff that is behind psychiatric symptoms is in the book. I can summarize it into 3 categories, which are usually intertwined....occult pathogens, toxin accumulation, and inflammation. Deal with those 3 issues and it would not be surprising to see most or all of your troubles go away.
So when you asked if there could be a physical cause no one is finding, absolutely the answer is yes yes yes!!!! And they aren't going to find it, so don't even go there. They don't know how. There are a handful of doctors in the country who are passionate with "gray" areas of medicine such as this, but for the most part they seem to be cookie cutter black-n-white doctors who don't exercise their God given brains very well.
Time for some detective work. Somewhere along the line in doing your detective experiments, you will get better.
If on the other hand you just want some kind of psychiatric prescription or psychiatric treatment that is going to restore you, I can't really offer any help there and apologize for that. If this were earlier in the game, that would be easy. But this late in the game, the rules change. It's a different game. The name of it is not depression. It's something else.
Long story summed up....learn all you can about lyme, regardless if you have it or not, and a whole new world will open up. Right when you thought you were at the end of the road, you've got a whole brand new highway in front of you.
Where to start? Rhodiola, Japanese Knotweed, Sarsaparilla, Red Root, Chlorella, gluten free experiment, high dose garlic, Cat's Claw or Samento.
Hey the other day I was near death from depression. It was so so horribly bad I can't even describe it. My usual lifesaver....vicodin...didn't help. It was that bad. Later that night my wife wanted to make love. I took a viagra. Imagine my shock when 20 minutes later that depression was gone! Sex had not happened yet, I actually had no interest in it at the time, but depression vanished after viagra. How could that be? What does viagra do? Well, among other things it relaxes muscles and it opens up blood vessels. Brain inflammation....bingo!
Just sayin.
My best antidepressants of recent years?
DMSA (chelates mercury and lead, OTC over internet)
Diflucan (antifungal)
Various herbs that deal with "herxheimer" reactionsJust sayin.
>
> Where so you go when you've tried every class of meds? I think ECT is out. I've never heard of it helping anyone and I want to go to grad school. I need a brain to do that.
Posted by SLS on February 13, 2012, at 15:17:35
In reply to Re: Nardil failed - nothing left?, posted by Lepus on February 12, 2012, at 23:08:09
> I have school. I wonder if I should try it though. Thanks. I will write down the idea to discuss with my pdoc.
There are no guarantees, of course. However, I have seen in myself and a few other people using MAOIs an "in-between" state where autonomic and cognitive function can be disturbed. Once you get beyond a certain dosage, these things begin to dissipate rather quickly.
How are you doing with heart-palpitations and sweating?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on February 13, 2012, at 15:24:17
In reply to Re: Nardil failed - nothing left?, posted by bleauberry on February 13, 2012, at 13:11:33
Gosh. You are prolific.
I don't subscribe to the majority of your ideas, conclusions, and opinions. I imagine you feel the same way about mine. That's okay. You sure do show passion, though, and you are a wealth of information in your areas of interest. I learn a lot from you.
- Scott
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 14, 2012, at 1:12:33
In reply to Lou's rsponse-, posted by Lou Pilder on February 12, 2012, at 15:10:48
> the owner of this site has put up a wall of separation to me with multiple prohibitions
> if I could post freely
Discussion of administrative issues should take place at Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 14, 2012, at 1:12:50
In reply to Re: Lou's response-teykzprecdenz, posted by polarbear206 on February 12, 2012, at 20:15:58
> Why is an untreated paranoid schizophrenic allowed to post on these boards freely and harass members while also disrupting conversations?
>
> Lepus> Just ignore him. That's what everyone should do, then perhaps he will go away.
>
> polarbear206Please don't jump to conclusions about others or post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.
It's up to you to decide whom you interact with. Sometimes interacting with others may be frustrating, staying civil may be a challenge, and new skills may help. If you're open to developing new skills (which I realize may not be why you came in the first place), that's another way in which you may be supported by other posters.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express yourself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by sigismund on February 14, 2012, at 1:38:37
In reply to Re: please be civil » Lepus » polarbear206, posted by Dr. Bob on February 14, 2012, at 1:12:50
>staying civil may be a challenge, and new skills may help
One learns them here.
Posted by SLS on February 14, 2012, at 5:31:59
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by sigismund on February 14, 2012, at 1:38:37
> >staying civil may be a challenge, and new skills may help
>
> One learns them here.
Yes.I have learned more effective communication skills here. I appreciate very much the professor.
- Scott
Posted by Twinleaf on February 14, 2012, at 15:39:23
In reply to Re: please be civil » sigismund, posted by SLS on February 14, 2012, at 5:31:59
It's fascinating how diverse, and how strong, different posters reactions are to this seemingly straightforward concept.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
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