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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by theomastix on January 7, 2012, at 18:31:40
My mother told me of barbiturate-amphetamine psychopharmaceuticals from the old, old days, like "Desbutil" (sp?) and "Dexamil" (sp?)...and I am wondering what the psychopharmacological reasoning was behind these seemingly exotic conconctions, how the psychiatrists and doctors theorized...? To "get the best of both worlds"...syngergistic enhancement, or what? And what is the real, unvarnished reason why these interesting combinations no longer exist? Mere commercial trend, moralism, or actual toxicity...?
Posted by sigismund on January 7, 2012, at 19:28:05
In reply to Rationale of Phenobarb.-Amph. Combos. in the Past, posted by theomastix on January 7, 2012, at 18:31:40
Crowd management.
Opiates were available here OTC until 1968. There must have been some abuse, as we now term it, though the term is clearly anachronistic.
Something happened. People changed. It is inconceivable for my mother to have bought morphine cough mixture because she could. Now, if it was on sale in a parmacy here, I would join the mile long line to buy some.
Here it is reported that Seroquel is bought and sold, though it is hard to imagine it being restricted because of that.
So that's my take on it. I bought Dexamyl OTC in Kathmandu in 1978. I wish I had some now. You *can* be prescribed amphetamine for depression here, instead of resorting to an ADHD diagnosis that some docs will, in their cynicism about the categories and general good will will bodgie up. The only person I have heard of who was prescribed it for this was a good looking young woman.
Posted by Christ_empowered on January 7, 2012, at 20:37:55
In reply to Re: Rationale of Phenobarb.-Amph. Combos. in the Past, posted by sigismund on January 7, 2012, at 19:28:05
Amphetamines help(ed) a lot of people, but lots of people needed something to take the edge off. So, throw in some amobarbital (dexamyl), nembutal (Desubtol, I think), and you're good to go.
Those pills worked well for a lot of people. The "modern" drugs that everyone has to take have all kinds of problems associated with them--weight gain, dysphoria, anhedonia, "poop out," serotonin syndrome, etc.--that you just didn't find in the good ole goof balls.
Now and then you'll meet someone prescribed a benzo and an upper. I knew two such people--one dude on 90mgs adderall and 2 Klonopin, and one on 40 adderall and 5 valium tabs as-needed. Not much has changed, except psychiatry has become even less fun than it was back in the day. Even celebrities take antidepressants now--its crazy.
Posted by Phillipa on January 8, 2012, at 9:54:48
In reply to Re: Rationale of Phenobarb.-Amph. Combos. in the Past, posted by Christ_empowered on January 7, 2012, at 20:37:55
When in junior high middle school now a girl brought her mother's "nerve" pills to school they were phenobarbitol on a dare I took the whole bottle at lunch. Got back to class and was scared I'd hurt myself as didn't know what they were so left class made self vomit. I was sent home and the girl who gave the pills was on a train to another state before charges could be made. She went to live with Father in another state. She never returned. Had no idea what the big deal was til now later in life. Phillipa
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 8, 2012, at 17:06:01
In reply to Rationale of Phenobarb.-Amph. Combos. in the Past, posted by theomastix on January 7, 2012, at 18:31:40
They were replaced by drugs that were safer and more effective for the rather vauge indications that they posessed.
They were generaly handed out to bored, dissatisfied housewifes of the 50's and 60's, until they were replaced by Valium.
Posted by sigismund on January 8, 2012, at 18:37:24
In reply to Re: Rationale of Phenobarb.-Amph. Combos. in the Past, posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 8, 2012, at 17:06:01
Very popular with medical students.
Posted by rjlockhart04=08 on January 9, 2012, at 20:54:29
In reply to Re: Rationale of Phenobarb.-Amph. Combos. in the Past, posted by Christ_empowered on January 7, 2012, at 20:37:55
I was on this combination for 3 years. All I can say during this time is that it provided a "relaxed, calm" stimulation. It took the norepherine anxiety off and just let the dopamine increase the brain capacity, I was on Ativan 2mg X 3 [total of 6mg], then a couple months later I was swtiched to Xanax 2mg X 3 daily with 60mg of dextroamphetamine spansules. Ativan and Xanax are diffrent when mixed with d-amphetamine. Ativan has more of a relaxed feeling, more mellow and the amphetamine did counteract it rather than Xanax. Klonopin actually diminishes the amphetamine effect at 1-2mg and is very useful for amphetamine-induced insomnia at 3-6mg taken at once. My best combination suggested is ativan and dextroamphetamine. Xanax is ok, its effects are just more direct than ativan. Xanax always used to just "zone" things out, In 2008-2009 I would wake up take 60mg of amp [extended release, spansule] and 3mg of Xanax and function fine. I felt calm but sharp.
Hope this helps.
Posted by linkadge on January 11, 2012, at 20:08:54
In reply to Re: dexativan, posted by rjlockhart04=08 on January 9, 2012, at 20:54:29
I remember reading studies in which the combination of a benzo and a stimulant increased the release of dopamine in pleasure centres, over that of either drug alone.
Kind of like speedballs (cocaine + heroin?) - just more pleasurable.
Linkadge
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on January 12, 2012, at 14:51:39
In reply to Re: dexativan, posted by rjlockhart04=08 on January 9, 2012, at 20:54:29
Yes, I wouldnt say it causes "more" pleasure. It just calms down the amphetamine stimulation to a more relaxed, confortable state. Depending on how the individuel reacts to an amphtamine. If anxiety is present then ativan or xanax would take that away and let the person experience stimulation without anxiety, maybe not all the anxiety goes away but, I used to take Ativan 1mg with Adderall 40mg XR in 2005, the adderall stimulated me to focus and do repetive tasks but when I took the ativan it just slowed down some motorskills that I had but nothing like Klonopin. Klonopin at .5mg wouldnt deminish the effect but if you took it at 1-2mg Klonopin removes the stimulation or just significanly slows it down... I rerember I took 2mg of Klonopin and I was in BAD mood with adderall. Ativan ... is a gentle benzodiapine compared to Xanax and klonopin. It's strength is about a 5-6 out of a 10 being xanax.
But I guess It could increase pleasure depending on what benzo you take. Like Xanax releases some dopamine. Ativan I think just works on GABA and slows things down its not really a "euphoric" benzo but that depends on the individuel. I guess it can take the edge off and let you experience the amphetmaine without the edge. Most of the edgy feelings you feel on stimulant is the norephenrine that keeps you sharp. Caffeine works on this too.
Hope that gives you a better idea.
Matt
Posted by SLS on January 12, 2012, at 15:48:55
In reply to Re: dexativan, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on January 12, 2012, at 14:51:39
> Like Xanax releases some dopamine.
Where would I find information about this?
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on January 13, 2012, at 19:11:30
In reply to Re: dexativan » rjlockhart04-08, posted by SLS on January 12, 2012, at 15:48:55
"xanax releases dopamine but lorazpeam does not"
Hope this help's ;)
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/xanax-increases-dopamine-in-the-striatum-of-rodents-but-ativan-87587/Matt
Posted by SLS on January 13, 2012, at 21:17:41
In reply to Re: dexativan, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on January 13, 2012, at 19:11:30
This is the end of the thread.
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