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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 15, 2011, at 22:18:40
prozac, strattera, wellbutrin
They have no effect and I'm just fed with my brain not responding to treatment. I'm not expecting any kind of rush but by this time it should be working and its. I mean i am so sick of this for not working I could just drink cynide and see how stubborn my body would be to something like that. If I died, its ok. I know im saved. I have alot of self-loathing over this. I really dispise my own body for not responding to antidepressants.
But really what is causing this. No effect from zyprexa either.
Posted by Dinah on September 15, 2011, at 22:27:05
In reply to Why are antidepressants not working anymore?, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 15, 2011, at 22:18:40
What would it feel like if they were working? What would zyprexa be doing? What would your antidepressants be doing? If they were working?
Posted by JONO_IN_ADELAIDE on September 15, 2011, at 23:56:34
In reply to Re: Why are antidepressants not working anymore? » rjlockhart04-08, posted by Dinah on September 15, 2011, at 22:27:05
Maybe you have a condition that doesnt respond to antidepressants?
Posted by Phillipa on September 16, 2011, at 0:11:36
In reply to Re: Why are antidepressants not working anymore?, posted by JONO_IN_ADELAIDE on September 15, 2011, at 23:56:34
Attending the groups you are supposed to? No idea about the not working of meds. Maybe not a med problem? Psychologist? Phillipa
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 16, 2011, at 0:48:18
In reply to Re: Why are antidepressants not working anymore? » rjlockhart04-08, posted by Dinah on September 15, 2011, at 22:27:05
Wellbutrin usally gives a sense of energy and improved mood dealing with dopaminegeric action it gives energy and sometimes anxiety. Prozac makes the things not seem so sad and levelizes the mood. Zyprexa is sedating and keeps most thoughts under antipsychotic action.
But none of anything I take anymore has an effect on me. NO EFFECT. Why do people not understand that It just won't f*ck*ng work
Posted by Christ_empowered on September 16, 2011, at 12:58:08
In reply to Re: Why are antidepressants not working anymore?, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 16, 2011, at 0:48:18
I think you shoulder taper off your meds and see how you do. Maybe stop going to a shrink and go see a therapist/counselor?
Posted by zonked on September 16, 2011, at 14:00:52
In reply to Re: Why are antidepressants not working anymore?, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 16, 2011, at 0:48:18
> Wellbutrin usally gives a sense of energy and improved mood dealing with dopaminegeric action it gives energy and sometimes anxiety. Prozac makes the things not seem so sad and levelizes the mood. Zyprexa is sedating and keeps most thoughts under antipsychotic action.
>
> But none of anything I take anymore has an effect on me. NO EFFECT. Why do people not understand that It just won't f*ck*ng workI think these guys have a good point. Are you describing what you've experienced in the past with these specific meds or just posting descriptions about what they do to other people?
What are your symptoms? It sounds like there's a lot of depression and frustration, and you've mentioned ADD. Do you know what your diagnosis is? Do you agree with it?
If you don't, have you had diagnoses in the past that you did agree with? Do you have meds in the past that have worked for you?
Matt, I wonder how you were able to abuse a federal schedule II substance. I mean, you mentioned amphetamine abuse, right? But what was your pattern like? Those drugs are not refillable. Did you just binge every month and then wait for your next RX? Did you use street meth or buy stimulants from other people? No one's going to judge you here if you have; I just think it would be better to have a complete picture...
I am wondering if you're just going through protracted amphetamine withdrawal and perhaps it will be awhile before you find relief--no matter the method. There was a special on, I could be wrong, I think it was 60 minutes; and it focused on street meth addiction, anhedonia (the inability to feel pleasure) can last a long time after stopping chronic amphetamine abuse.
If you don't like this doctor, why don't you ask your Mom if you can see another one? Will your insurance let you? Psychiatry may not be able to help you very much right now, but a second opinion is always a good thing to have in any chronic condition.
Posted by ron1953 on September 16, 2011, at 15:03:30
In reply to Why are antidepressants not working anymore?, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 15, 2011, at 22:18:40
The efficacy of such medications is not what we're led to believe - it's actually much lower. The drug companies are quite able to manipulate the data, by cherry-picking studies and many other devious ways. And the placebo effect affecting these studies (and real life) cannot be discounted. More often than not, ADs do not work, yet people are taking a sh*tload of them anyway, experiencing none of the advertised benefits and all of the rotten side-effects.
When retrying ADs that "worked" before but not again, I started to question whether they really worked the first time, or was it just me and circumstances.
Posted by Phillipa on September 16, 2011, at 18:46:57
In reply to Re: Why are antidepressants not working anymore?, posted by ron1953 on September 16, 2011, at 15:03:30
First time around I feel if stick with the med the body adapts or brain and learns to deal with them and then you basically feel like you did before starting. That is what I feel happened with me. Phillipa
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 16, 2011, at 23:38:31
In reply to Re: Why are antidepressants not working anymore? » rjlockhart04-08, posted by zonked on September 16, 2011, at 14:00:52
These medications used to work for me. They lost their effect and its very annoying because I have nothing reienforcing about them.
My symptoms are from the lack of attention span and resulting in lower mood. I swear I am sick of my body rejecting medication I could just do something derastic like giving it some electrial shocks. I would LOVE to have ECT. Zap my miserable self into shape. I'm so fed up with nothing working. But anyways, my actual diagnosis is low processing speed which basically means im stupid. I do lack processing speed but my doctor thinks i damaged my brain with alcohol and thinks it rotted away and their is nothing she can do. I had to BEG her to put me on strattrea and wellbutrin and frustrating thing is my danm body rejects these medcation making it even harder to cope with life. I'm very miserable but I want to make an impression on people to have hope and faith in better things. I am at low point and I am stuck here too but faith will get me somewhere I just need to work at what Im not working on.
I would abuse them by taking much at one time then having "sober" periods in between to get back to normal then binge again. I have addiction written all over me but I thinks its more substance abuse because they taken away from because I was binging on them and I had to deal with the actual part when they where taken away from me by my mother. I've talk about this too much but my mother acutally told the doctor no more. That's what happened.
My mom is stubborn and won't get me another doctor. Alot of my frustrations come from her. People tell me I blame people for me being so mierable but the truthfully that is the reality. I'm not blaming anyone. So I just need some help with getting my own place. I need support and I don't want to be treated like some junkie that uses every chance that's opened. Soltice thinks my addiction is the cause of my problem and frankly if they where in my situation. What would they do. The same thing I'm trying to do right now which is getting my own place and geting health insurance. I just am in a slump and it seems like im never going to get out of it.
Thank you for your time.
Matt
Posted by Solstice on September 17, 2011, at 14:56:27
In reply to Re: Zonked, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 16, 2011, at 23:38:31
> Soltice thinks my addiction is the cause of my problem
I don't know, Matt.. I think your problem centers around all the energy you invest in trying to find a way to get controlled substances. If you would invest that same energy in healthy activities (like volunteering), you might start to turn things around for yourself. One of the biggest obstacles you're creating for yourself is that you want someone to rescue you.. and that is a recipe for terminal frustration.
As for your self-loathing, a psychologist working with one of my kids told me "Self-esteem comes from us experiencing ourselves as competent. It doesn't come from people telling you how great you are. It comes from you trying something, doing it successfully, and finding out for yourself that you are competent." Self-loathing is often part of depression, but I think it could only help (and won't hurt) you to do something productive. There are a lot of things you can do even though you have a slow processing speed. You live in Texas, which has a really long growing season. So.. get a lawnmower and weedeater. If you don't already know how to do it well, find someone who will show you how. Then find one customer - somebody in your neighborhood, who will let you mow their grass. To start, be cheaper than anybody else. A slow processing speed is not going to be a problem. After you figure out how to make one customer happy - then add another one. It'll get you some pocket change. It's small, and incremental. You'll feel good about doing a good job, and you'll feel good about the money.
Nobody gets everything overnight. You may have to work yourself up to - or into - a full-time job with benefits. So start small. But doing nothing - just sitting around complaining - won't get you there. It won't get you anywhere.
So just get out there and DO something. You could go from mowing lawns yourself, to working for a landscaping company. Being busy will help you battle depression. I'm in school, and I've noticed that when there's a break between semesters, my depression tends to swell. But when I have responsibilities or obligations that make me get out of the house - especially if it requires me to be around people - my depression subsides.
Go out and DO something productive, Matt. Nobody's going to rescue you, and there is no magic pill that will provide the relief you hunger for. There is no easy ride in life.
Solstice
Posted by Phillipa on September 17, 2011, at 19:51:05
In reply to Re: Zonked, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 16, 2011, at 23:38:31
Matt you and I go way back I feel your real problem started when you got a diagnosis of some sort of Autism in archieves. Until then meds worked for you. I never ever remember your doc calling you stupid. Plus you have held jobs. What about Eddie Bauer? Phillipa
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 19, 2011, at 21:07:09
In reply to Re: Zonked » rjlockhart04-08, posted by Solstice on September 17, 2011, at 14:56:27
I really appricate your very sincere posts that are filled with good causes and good choices of life. I get into these self pity episodes where I just cry from where I am. I do know people don't want to hear someone's pity party of their problems. I will have to leave it to God, because he knows all awnsers and has love. Even thought I am bit ticked at God for not doing anything and rescueing me when I need it. I'm like a baby, its the WORST mentality to have. Being a confident young adult confident of himself and willing to all lengths to satisfy my ambition. My ambition was to work with merrill lynch and be an excutive for the company. Here's some things that are bothing me.
1)I don't know how to set a linkedin account I mean I have one but I have no idea how to operate it. There's so many CONNECTIONS to money on linkedin. I just sit there and want to feel my self-pity of how I don't know what to do. I'm so sick of feeling so lowsy.
2)no stimulants. Actually today I bought stacker 3 stimulant supplements and they made me ON EDGE all day I can't take that caffiene stimulantion its too much for me. I shake, I studder, I feel im going to lose it all because im nervous.But back to what your where saying. I just don't know where to start, BUT I know I need to apply myself. I applied for jobs for about 3 hours today. It's my self pity I think that get's in the way and makes me think horrible about myself. I work better on teams because teams carry people I don't know if I would be a good independent....person. I need to practice on it. But having support here on this website and from you is very much appriciated.
Posted by SLS on September 20, 2011, at 10:30:04
In reply to Re: Soltice, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 19, 2011, at 21:07:09
> I will have to leave it to God,
Perhaps leaving it to God is to recognize the possibility that God has left it to you. Yes, I believe that He knows all of the answers. Because He leaves so much uncertain and unknown, uncertainty can save you. Perhaps God leaves it to you to use all of the resources he has provided you with to do the rest on your own with hard work and the help of others. Nobody is going to fight as hard for you as you will fight for yourself.
I am not trying to minimize the severity of your condition. I recognize that a great many people with your illness are biologically incapacitated by it. However, to treat the psychological along with the biological would seem very necessary in your case. It would be desirable to make the most of every moment you have left in life, regardless of the severity of your current state. Your current condition is grotesque. If you can experience moments of acceptance of such adversity, you might be able to increase the quality of your life while your brain function remains pathological. There is a tendency while being in midst of depression to take inventory of all of the things that you can't do or feel. Yet, there is still much to be grateful for. Make a list of what you are grateful for, and you will see that there is a great deal that is often not appreciated. In each moment, you might try to recognize how much you do have to work with. This is a positive and productive way to approach life. If, one day, you are fortunate enough to find an effective treatment, you will be very much ahead in your recovery process for having performed so much psychotherapeutic work.
Look less at what you can't do, and more at what you can do. You will go that much further along your road to wellness.
I spent 5 nights a week in the RWJ / Rutgers medical school library during the 1980s, trying to figure out the etiology of MDD and the mechanisms of the drugs known to treat it effectively. I was told by my first set of doctors at Columbia Presbyterian in New York that I would never get well, and that they weren't even sure what I was suffering from. It looked like atypical depression to them, but did not respond to medication like atypical depression should. They demanded that I yet again undergo six months of psychotherapy before they would consider treating me any further. I challenged them to send me anywhere in the city for a psychological evaluation. I dared them to. I told them that I would consent to the psychotherapy, but only if and when the need could be established medically. Besides, there was nothing left for them to try on me. So, for the first time in my life, I questioned the judgment and knowledge base of a doctor. After my spending fifteen minutes describing to the doctor what I experience as depression, and that it is indeed a biological entity for which psychotherapy was of little use, she was left in tears. I must have hit a homerun in that I was able to offer a compelling argument for the existence of a biological diathesis for major depressive disorder. Acceptance of this notion would have set her ahead of her colleagues by 7-10 years.
In 1983, I became suspicious that my case involved dopaminergic dysfunction. (This was at a time when NE was the focus of study, and before the advent of interest in the clinical potential of 5-HT reuptake inhibition). My doctor was amused. When I asked for the then experimental Wellbutrin, she said, "No way". I then asked to try bromocriptine (Parlodel) instead. At this juncture, her amusement turned into condescending laughter as she said, "Sure - if you want to throw up all day." Nowadays, using DA receptor agonists to treat depressive disorders is a strategy used from time to time. Indeed, bromocriptine ended up triggering a brief antidepressant response in me, and I never even got nauseous.
Oh, well. She did the best she could during the treatments administered between 1982 and 1983. Frederick Quitkin (deceased) was the ultimate decision maker on the treatment team, and was the person responsible for denying me an open trial of Wellbutrin. Both of these doctors are smart, and have contribute quite a bit to the field of psychiatry. It is just that they were the prisoners of history.
An overlooked, but critically important investigation by my former doctor:---------------------------------------
Article: Efficacy Of Desipramine In Depressed Outpatients. Response According To Research Diagnosis Criteria Diagnoses And Severity Of Illness.
Author: Wilma Harrison, MD
Date: March 1983
Journal: Archives Of General Psychiatry
The efficacy of desipramine for mild depression was tested in a double-blind, placebo-controlled study of outpatients with scores below 19 on the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAM-D). Of 103 such patients, 23 dropped out and 16 improved during a ten-day placebo period. Among 64 patients completing the randomized portion of the study, significantly more improved with desipramine that with placebo. The Research Diagnostic Criteria (RDC) category of major depressive disorder largely accounted for the drug-placebo response difference found for the entire sample. Patients with intermittent depressive disorder improved significantly less frequently with desipramine than patients with major depressive disorder. Independent of RDC diagnosis, severity of illness correlated with outcome. Thus, patients with pretreatment HAM-D scores at or above the median demonstrated significant drug effect, while patients with lower pretreatment HAM-D scores did not.
---------------------------------------
Why is this so important? For anyone following my string of threads regarding the eligibility requirements and screening methods used in contemporary clinical trials of antidepressants and why the more severe MDD cases fair better on drug therapy than those rated as being mildly to moderately depressed. This effect makes any such study report a smaller separation of active treatment from placebo. Placebo looks better and better the more the less depressed patients are included. Antidepressants are significantly more effective than placebo when severe MDD patients are studied exclusively.
What does all of this have to do with the plight of the original poster? Perhaps it will act as a demonstration of how God has left it to me. So, I did what I could with all of the resources He has afforded me. I therefore leave it up to God the story to unfold with me as an active participant in His plan - whatever that may be. Leaving it to God does not mean giving up and doing nothing.
Speaking of God, He recently gave to man the ability to produce an antidepressant drug called vilazodone (Viibryd). What do you think? Hopefully it will not show itself to carry any dangerous side effects. So far, so good.
- Scott
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on September 20, 2011, at 13:35:08
In reply to Re: Soltice » rjlockhart04-08, posted by SLS on September 20, 2011, at 10:30:04
Scott, I really appciate your post. I need this kind of support and I really am thankful you posted. Yes their are alot of drugs that I could try but im very resistant to most of them. I didnt used to be this way, like wellbutrin used to give me anxiety I rerember because of excessive norephineprine and now it does nothing, i mean NOTHING. It's like a sugar pill. Placebo.
I do believe that psychotherpy would help too. I havent seen a theprist in so long. I have made a graditude list of things im very thankful for but I also am very ungrateful for the things I want to have but can't have them.
I'm still reading. Thank you!!
Posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2011, at 21:16:35
In reply to Re: Soltice » rjlockhart04-08, posted by SLS on September 20, 2011, at 10:30:04
Scott are you saying your docs didn't think you were depressed? And that it was more to do with coping? Phillipa ps did they have any idea what they thought you might have?
Posted by SLS on September 20, 2011, at 21:48:01
In reply to Re: Soltice » SLS, posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2011, at 21:16:35
> Scott are you saying your docs didn't think you were depressed? And that it was more to do with coping? Phillipa ps did they have any idea what they thought you might have?
I think the main problem was that these doctors couldn't agree on what depression was. They were afraid to state outright that major depressive disorder was predominantly biological in nature, even though their data clearly indicated that it was. I was indignant that they should be so resistant to commit themselves to a biological explanation of depression when the author of "Moodswing", Ronald R. Fieve, located his office just across the hall. I truly wondered whether or not they ever bothered to talk to this guy.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2011, at 22:11:20
In reply to Re: Soltice » Phillipa, posted by SLS on September 20, 2011, at 21:48:01
Scott what did they think depression was? A bad mood or something else? Were they not treating patients they agreed with depressed or before the day so to say? Reminds me of when anxiety was anxiety period point blank today it can be whatever you chose to call it. At least that's the way I see it. Different docs different diagnosis's and different meds. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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