![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 53. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Huxley on July 6, 2011, at 22:13:03
And I consider Myself a recovering drug addict.
My original condition = Social Anxiety
Prescribed multiple SSRI and SSNRI's over a decade.
New condition = Insomnia
Prescribed an Anti-Psychotic Zyprexa
New Conditions = 'Bipolar features',
Prescribed a mood stabaliser Lamictal/lactimal
New Conditions = Slowness and low motivation possibly ADHD.
Prescribed PRovigil.
So at my peak I was on these 4 meds. Lactimal, Zyprexa, Pristiq and Provigil. The irony of this is at this stage I am more socially anxious than when I started. I now had major depression, Bipolar Disorder and possible ADHD.
The last year and a half I have slowly come of the drugs.Provigil was first to go. Took a while to adjust but wasn't to bad.
Lactimal was very hard and took months.
Zyprexa has been a nightmare and has take over a year to go from 1.25mg to .30mg.
Daily Panic attacks, Emotitonal overdrive, anxiety, derpersonalisation, Despair, anger.
These are some of the things that I experienced weeks after each drop.
But I keep getting better and better after the initial adjustment phase.
So if taking drugs makes me worse and stopping them makes me better than I think it is fair to conclude that it was indeed my drugs causing the problem?
Why Couldn't doctors see this or tell me this?
Even when I raised the suggestion I was scoffed at.I currently would not describe myself as mentally ill.
Infact ironically, the hell that I have lived through being on and getting off these drugs makes my everyday life seem a blessing...
Posted by floatingbridge on July 6, 2011, at 23:11:25
In reply to I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by Huxley on July 6, 2011, at 22:13:03
Good luck Huxley. I wish you well with this.
Posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 1:02:38
In reply to I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by Huxley on July 6, 2011, at 22:13:03
Huxley, I can't imagine that you're doing that great or do not carry some misguided and descructive anger and bitterness, otherwise you would not be here making these posts.
Sorry things did not work out for you, but the fact is, your situation is n=1. Maybe you have no issues, maybe you have no predispositions toward developing mental illness, and if so, it is unfortunate you were treated with the medications you were treated with.
I do think you got a bad doctor that overmedicated you with the wrong drugs. Though, you have to admit, the doctor must have seen something going on to feel the need to prescribe some of those meds, and you were the one who sought out help for some reason.
I am very much opposed to the use of Zyprexa in your case and others. There are only a few conditions I would consider the use of Zyprexa to be justifiable. How are you doing with getting off Zyprexa? That's another thing, you happened to be one of those people that is obviously extremely sensitive to certain medications. Others can give medicaitons a go and get off them in a few months without any problems, returning back to baseline.
Hang in there man, I hope you find a way to truly feel good and live life to it's fullest.
Morgan
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 7, 2011, at 4:08:57
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 1:02:38
> Huxley, I can't imagine that you're doing that great or do not carry some misguided and descructive anger and bitterness, otherwise you would not be here making these posts.
>
> Sorry things did not work out for you, but the fact is, your situation is n=1. Maybe you have no issues, maybe you have no predispositions toward developing mental illness, and if so, it is unfortunate you were treated with the medications you were treated with.
>
> I do think you got a bad doctor that overmedicated you with the wrong drugs. Though, you have to admit, the doctor must have seen something going on to feel the need to prescribe some of those meds, and you were the one who sought out help for some reason.
>
> I am very much opposed to the use of Zyprexa in your case and others. There are only a few conditions I would consider the use of Zyprexa to be justifiable. How are you doing with getting off Zyprexa? That's another thing, you happened to be one of those people that is obviously extremely sensitive to certain medications. Others can give medicaitons a go and get off them in a few months without any problems, returning back to baseline.
>
> Hang in there man, I hope you find a way to truly feel good and live life to it's fullest.
>
> Morganmm,
You wrote,[...xxx and yyy anger and bitterness...otherwise you would not...the fact is...].
I am unsure as to what your basis is for posting the above. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. Could the member be posting here for reasons other than being xxx?
B. Could, in fact, the poster be very well guided? If not, why not?
C. Could the poster have a motivation to help others by posting here? If not, why not?
D. Could lives be saved, or a life-ruining condition be avoided by the poster posting what you have posted about? If not, why not?
E.. What is your basis for posting {the (fact) is}?
Lou
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 4:37:29
In reply to I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by Huxley on July 6, 2011, at 22:13:03
Hi Huxley.
I won't attempt to pick apart your psychobiology. You have been through a lot. However, I don't find in the content of your post much attention being payed to the dynamics of addiction and how your experiences are a manifestation thereof.
Are you feeling worse because of your history of exposures to numerous psychotropics? I know this to be a possibility from my own experience with drug treatment. I don't think the deficit lies in the character of the patient, but in the inadequate treatments that we use on him. Unfortunately, better drug treatments might still be a few years away.
I felt that your subject line was worded in such a way as would cause emotional resistance on the part of some forum members, including me. It is a good way to get bad reactions and a bad way to get good reactions. Anyway, I hope you can discontinue those drugs that are making such a mess of you.
- Scott
Posted by Huxley on July 7, 2011, at 4:56:08
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 1:02:38
Hi Morgan,
Just because I am angry doesnt mean i have a mental illness.
Of course I am angry at my situation.
The fact that I waspushed into a suicidal state my a cocktail of medication infuriates me.
The fact that my body's immune system is attacking my own body because of my meds makes me angry.
The malpractice by not one but four doctors pisses me off.
The billions of dollars that pharma spend on lobbying the government makes me angry.
The billions of dollars that pharma spend on advertising makes me angry.
The billions of dollars that pharmaseutical companies spend on lawsuits when they know there drug causes diabetes makes me angry.
The dollars that pharma spend on 'educating' doctors makes me angry.
The complete head in the sand denial of withdrawal symptoms makes me angry.
All the people hooked on Benzos, ADs, Stimulants and APs pisses me off.
The fact that there are people sitting in a boardroom thinking up more ways to ram Zyprexa down childrens throats PISSES ME OFF.
Explain to me why any of that anger is misguided. Seems pretty rational to me.
and ps I am good. Happy. Rational. Stable. Just angry at the pharma game.Not sure why you are trying to imply that I need to hang in there but if it makes you feel better then good for you.
Posted by Huxley on July 7, 2011, at 5:08:18
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » Huxley, posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 4:37:29
> Hi Huxley.
>
> I won't attempt to pick apart your psychobiology. You have been through a lot. However, I don't find in the content of your post much attention being payed to the dynamics of addiction and how your experiences are a manifestation thereof.
>
> Are you feeling worse because of your history of exposures to numerous psychotropics? I know this to be a possibility from my own experience with drug treatment. I don't think the deficit lies in the character of the patient, but in the inadequate treatments that we use on him. Unfortunately, better drug treatments might still be a few years away.
>
> I felt that your subject line was worded in such a way as would cause emotional resistance on the part of some forum members, including me. It is a good way to get bad reactions and a bad way to get good reactions. Anyway, I hope you can discontinue those drugs that are making such a mess of you.
>
>
> - Scott
>Thanks Scott.
Right now I am feeling quite blessed to be free of the drug induced hell I was living.
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 5:22:12
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by Huxley on July 7, 2011, at 5:08:18
> > Hi Huxley.
> >
> > I won't attempt to pick apart your psychobiology. You have been through a lot. However, I don't find in the content of your post much attention being payed to the dynamics of addiction and how your experiences are a manifestation thereof.
> >
> > Are you feeling worse because of your history of exposures to numerous psychotropics? I know this to be a possibility from my own experience with drug treatment. I don't think the deficit lies in the character of the patient, but in the inadequate treatments that we use on him. Unfortunately, better drug treatments might still be a few years away.
> >
> > I felt that your subject line was worded in such a way as would cause emotional resistance on the part of some forum members, including me. It is a good way to get bad reactions and a bad way to get good reactions. Anyway, I hope you can discontinue those drugs that are making such a mess of you.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> >
>
> Thanks Scott.
>
>
> Right now I am feeling quite blessed to be free of the drug induced hell I was living.
Sounds good to me. You must be doing something right.:-)
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on July 7, 2011, at 10:25:10
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » Huxley, posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 5:22:12
Huxley I sure have had my share of not good pdocs myself. I also started with panic back 41 years ago and have tried different things always in low doses. I'm glad your're doing better the less meds you take. Congrats to you. Phillipa
Posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 13:19:24
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » morgan miller, posted by Huxley on July 7, 2011, at 4:56:08
Huxley, you misunderstood me, I did not say that you had mental illness because you were angry. Maybe I did not articulate things properly, I seem to be having issues with that lately.
Posted by sigismund on July 7, 2011, at 15:13:18
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » Huxley, posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 4:37:29
Drug addicts create resentment by (among other things) taking great quantities of euphoric drugs, creating envy by access to unauthorised mental states.
It is a testament to people's hope and devotion that some psychiatric treatments are persisted with so long when they bear so little fruit.
Posted by sigismund on July 7, 2011, at 15:18:45
In reply to I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by Huxley on July 6, 2011, at 22:13:03
>Zyprexa has been a nightmare and has take over a year to go from 1.25mg to .30mg.
>Daily Panic attacks, Emotitonal overdrive, anxiety, derpersonalisation, Despair, anger.
>These are some of the things that I experienced weeks after each drop.
Very interesting. I had not realised that it was so hard to get off.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 15:26:53
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by sigismund on July 7, 2011, at 15:13:18
> Drug addicts create resentment by (among other things) taking great quantities of euphoric drugs, creating envy by access to unauthorised mental states.
>
> It is a testament to people's hope and devotion that some psychiatric treatments are persisted with so long when they bear so little fruit.
>
>
"In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts" by Gabor Mate is a very good book that
addresses addiction in helpful terms.
The author is a very compassionate doctor in Vancouver BC.Huxley, I am very sorry you have health issues now, and that they were brought on by your treatment. I am very glad you are mentally sound now. Please, good luck.
Posted by sigismund on July 7, 2011, at 15:47:48
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 15:26:53
I might highlight that.
"In the realm of hungry ghosts"
Looks interesting. I might get it.
It's a Buddhist idea, this hungry ghost thing, I think?
Posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 16:03:40
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by sigismund on July 7, 2011, at 15:47:48
Yes. Wikipedia has an entry.
He believes the potential for addiction is an innate human quality that different people manage in different ways.
Hungry Ghosts are maybe from China. Folklore.
Posted by B2chica on July 7, 2011, at 16:23:05
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by sigismund on July 7, 2011, at 15:18:45
i am actually able to stop from 10mg, with little side effects, and stop from 5 with none.
i think it really depends on each persons system and how it is effecting them.
i almost feel that zyprexa was almost...something my system needed since i have never seemed to have much problem with it other than weight gain. also that i am fortunate enough to get off with no problem. it seemed like it was a little more 'natural' (would that it were) to my system.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 16:33:32
In reply to I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by Huxley on July 6, 2011, at 22:13:03
Depends on the person.
I might be.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 17:27:36
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » Huxley, posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 16:33:32
I might try and get off of most of the medication I'm on.
I'm never really better anyway.
I'll go the radical acceptance path.
Why all the protest anyway?
Sh*t happens. Since I am never psychotic I can go with that.
Wish me luck!
Posted by huxley on July 7, 2011, at 18:01:30
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » sigismund, posted by B2chica on July 7, 2011, at 16:23:05
> i am actually able to stop from 10mg, with little side effects, and stop from 5 with none.
> i think it really depends on each persons system and how it is effecting them.
> i almost feel that zyprexa was almost...something my system needed since i have never seemed to have much problem with it other than weight gain. also that i am fortunate enough to get off with no problem. it seemed like it was a little more 'natural' (would that it were) to my system.
>
>Early on in my treatment I stopped (after 6 months) I could stop with no major ill effects.
Then I tried again a year later and it was completly different. I have found plenty of others who are having the same problems. Plenty of people who can't sleep at all if they stop taking it..People who get 6 weeks of constant throwing up...
All sorts of strange reactions.
It is a hell of a drug.
Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 18:04:03
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 17:27:36
SG,
Please go very slowly if you go this way. The meds/no meds is difficult to navigate. You deserve gentle kindness. I always wish you luck. You know my experiences color this post. Consider how long your treatment has been and taper judiciously.
Warmly,
fb
> I might try and get off of most of the medication I'm on.
> I'm never really better anyway.
> I'll go the radical acceptance path.
> Why all the protest anyway?
> Sh*t happens. Since I am never psychotic I can go with that.
> Wish me luck!
Posted by huxley on July 7, 2011, at 18:06:21
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 13:19:24
> Huxley, you misunderstood me, I did not say that you had mental illness because you were angry. Maybe I did not articulate things properly, I seem to be having issues with that lately.
Sorry Morgan.
I am wrong to direct my anger at you. Infact I think I am wrong to direct it here in general at what seems like a bunch of good people just trying to get by and manage there conditions.
I always told people close to me when I was withdrawing that they should walk a mile in my shoes before they judged me.
Probably should apply the same wisdom to myself.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 18:08:04
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 17:27:36
> Sh*t happens. Since I am never psychotic I can go with that.
> Wish me luck!I have been having some scary rebound symptoms. Not psychotic. But pretty untenable. I am not saying not to; I am saying this stuff can bite back. Look at Huxley's thread. Keep a coolish head. Yeah?
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 18:10:32
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » sleepygirl2, posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 18:04:03
I know it has to go very slowly for it to really happen. That has to be part of the decision. I wish meds were the answer. I'm not really interested in letting go of my Pdoc, but I think I do need to let go of most, if not all, of my meds.
Slowly, very slowly. Thanks fb. How are you?
Posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 18:23:29
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » floatingbridge, posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 18:10:32
> I know it has to go very slowly for it to really happen. That has to be part of the decision. I wish meds were the answer. I'm not really interested in letting go of my Pdoc, but I think I do need to let go of most, if not all, of my meds.
> Slowly, very slowly. Thanks fb. How are you?Well then, I am behind you :-) Retaining
your pdoc, if s/he will support your taper could be very valuable. If you have that kind of relationship. Just thinking
someone who has observed you and help you sort through any withdrawal
symptoms....if any :-)Just an additional 2¢.
(Me? I'm sorting through my own cold turkey rebound issues. Rough. Still here.)
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 18:48:57
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » sleepygirl2, posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 18:23:29
I don't know what my Pdoc will think. I do know that pdocs tend to be reluctant about taking people off meds. I can understand that. I also know that I spent 25 or so years not on meds and I can do it again. The sadness and anxiety will probably always be there.
I've put a lot of work in though, and I'm better for it. I think I can manage it. It'll be a process, but I think it's important.
I am definitely not going the cold turkey route. I went cold turkey for a couple of days off effexor. It was awful.
Thanks fb. :-)
I hope you feel better every day.
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