![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 130. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lamdage on June 7, 2011, at 15:40:35
In reply to Re: feels unappreciated » Lamdage, posted by floatingbridge on June 7, 2011, at 1:49:41
Hmm maybe your right.. its just sometimes when i speak my mind i still fear getting a physical or mental blow or being ignored. Its sad posting is down because this was a great place to be. . i might be a bit babblespoiled, too.My thread back then drew a lot of attention since my response to Nardil was very profound and i had something what can be called a pretty major epiphany.
It was a very exciting time and hard as it might have been.. i look back to it longingly almost every day. Never before have i felt what it feels like... what my very being feels like. (had to go through alot of childhood trauma) Brief update: I quit relations to my family of origin for good. Experience has shown they wont ever change and are are viciously.. ehm ill put in one sentence: They want to destroy me in some dark way.
Well im waiting for the Nardil to come in like a little child waits for christmas. Im depressed on this venlafaxine-bupropion combo. Like i said due to bad mistakes of responsible doctors and periods of no ADs at all it has gotten even heavier than it was anyway. I need higher dosages now than i used to. Every episode of major depression has picked up where the last one has stopped and no one, not even the so called experts are calling what i have medium anymore. Its rock bottom depression.
Ok to the transition. It shouldnt be taken lightly although what the (non)experts say regarding Maoi.. well its way way overblown. Still its a very powerful med.
Like i said i can kick the venlafaxine out easily since it has like 20% of total AD activity in that mix. bupropion is way more effective for me. Question is.. how long does a significant SSRI action remain after cessation of the drug?
I dont wanna have serotonin syndrome or excess stimulation with bupropion. BUT and this is key: i do not want my underlying depression to get any worse so i want a transition as smooth as possible and i dont want to have a large timeframe where i go almost without AD(s).
Hoping for some knowledge inputLamdage
Posted by floatingbridge on June 7, 2011, at 17:11:21
In reply to Transition: Bupropion/venlafaxine to Nardil??, posted by Lamdage on June 7, 2011, at 15:40:35
Hey, so do you want to know the absolute shortest wash time from these two meds?
Wish I could remember. I think effexor minimum is two weeks. Emergency measures could be different, but I think you'd need a doc who was willing to treat aggressively.
But please don't rely on my information.
As for Bupropione I don't know.I asked similar questions getting off pristiq. You'd think I'd remember. Google the archives if no one else bites.
Good luck and welcome back,
fb
Posted by Lamdage on June 7, 2011, at 18:51:05
In reply to wash time to Nardil from Bupropion + venlafaxine? » Lamdage, posted by floatingbridge on June 7, 2011, at 17:11:21
> Hey, so do you want to know the absolute shortest wash time from these two meds?
>
> Wish I could remember. I think effexor minimum is two weeks. Emergency measures could be different, but I think you'd need a doc who was willing to treat aggressively.
>
> But please don't rely on my information.
>
>
> As for Bupropione I don't know.
>
> I asked similar questions getting off pristiq. You'd think I'd remember. Google the archives if no one else bites.
>
> Good luck and welcome back,
>
> fbHey, yes thats what i want to know.. i know that nardil starts to do some of its magic at about 30 to 45mg. So i wanna have both effexor and wellbutrin washed out at the point when i hit 30mg.
Also is it responsible to do this "seamless transition" strategy i suggested above or should i rigidly wait the washout period(s) before i take the first nardil pill? Or at what point does it start to get irresponsible. This is the core of my question.
Washout is a great word for google.. thanks;)
Grateful Ld
Posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2011, at 20:25:24
In reply to Re: wash time to Nardil from Bupropion + venlafaxine?, posted by Lamdage on June 7, 2011, at 18:51:05
Two weeks washout from other threads have read on nardil. When were you a member and was this your posting name at the time would be interesting to see how you did back then Phillipa
Posted by jedi on June 8, 2011, at 0:14:40
In reply to Transition: Bupropion/venlafaxine to Nardil??, posted by Lamdage on June 7, 2011, at 15:40:35
Lamdage,
I would give the venlafaxine a full two week washout. It has a large effect on serotonin and mixing it with phenelzine without a long washout would be a serious mistake. Bupropion, on the other hand, is a different story. It has very little effect on serotonin. Though contraindicated, I have taken 90mg of phenelzine augmented with 300mg of bupropion with no trouble. I did start low and titrate slowly. Bupropion tends to make me aggressive, which is very unlike my normal personality. I'm not going to recommend that you take the two medications together. But I would think a long washout of bupropion would be unnecessary. Everybody is different, I would suggest researching it further. This is only my experience.
Jedi
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20060927/msgs/691100.html
>
> Ok to the transition. It shouldnt be taken lightly although what the (non)experts say regarding Maoi.. well its way way overblown. Still its a very powerful med.
>
> Like i said i can kick the venlafaxine out easily since it has like 20% of total AD activity in that mix. bupropion is way more effective for me. Question is.. how long does a significant SSRI action remain after cessation of the drug?
>
> I dont wanna have serotonin syndrome or excess stimulation with bupropion. BUT and this is key: i do not want my underlying depression to get any worse so i want a transition as smooth as possible and i dont want to have a large timeframe where i go almost without AD(s).
>
>
> Hoping for some knowledge input
>
> Lamdage
>
>
>
>
Posted by Lamdage on June 8, 2011, at 7:22:35
In reply to Re: wash time to Nardil from Bupropion + venlafaxine? » Lamdage, posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2011, at 20:25:24
Thanks for your input.. i think i will quit taking the venlafaxine pretty much right away. Maybe 2 days on 75mg and than thats it. I think its doing close to nothing.
Aah what the heck i can post the link here.. Just keep the old name out of this fred and we should be fine.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20100504/msgs/946827.html
Can someone explain how to use babble mail in a nuthsell?
Thanks
Ld
Posted by Lamdage on June 8, 2011, at 7:23:49
In reply to Re: wash time to Nardil from Bupropion + venlafaxine?, posted by Lamdage on June 8, 2011, at 7:22:35
Pls dont revive it though
Posted by jedi on June 8, 2011, at 10:24:42
In reply to Re: wash time to Nardil from Bupropion + venlafaxine?, posted by Lamdage on June 8, 2011, at 7:22:35
> Can someone explain how to use babble mail in a nuthsell?
http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/settings.pl
Posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2011, at 22:28:20
In reply to Re: wash time to Nardil from Bupropion + venlafaxine?, posted by Lamdage on June 8, 2011, at 7:23:49
No problem thanks Phillipa
Posted by Lamdage on June 9, 2011, at 14:36:13
In reply to To turn on babblemail » Lamdage, posted by jedi on June 8, 2011, at 10:24:42
> > Can someone explain how to use babble mail in a nuthsell?
> http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/settings.plThank You! So i will take my last venlafaxine dose tomorrow. Will be interesting to see if i even realize its missing.
Do you something to help me keep depression at bay when i reduce bupropion? I have read bupropion has about 7-10 day washout.
Could use sth. when bupropion is down to like 100-150 and im waiting for nardil to take effect.I got piracetam coming in next week and also modafinil. I think Stablon would be awesome because its only a couple hours and then its out. But i currently cant put my hands on it.
Posted by floatingbridge on June 9, 2011, at 14:50:26
In reply to Sth for temporary depression relief??, posted by Lamdage on June 9, 2011, at 14:36:13
Lamdage,
I think stablon contraindicationed with maoi's.
Short term benzo use?
fb
P.S. I wrote you a long babblemail and lost it. Will write again sometime soon.
Be well. Stay within the speed limits ;-)
Posted by Lamdage on June 10, 2011, at 8:03:22
In reply to Re: Sth for temporary depression relief?? » Lamdage, posted by floatingbridge on June 9, 2011, at 14:50:26
> Lamdage,
>
> I think stablon contraindicationed with maoi's.
>
> Short term benzo use?
>
> fb
>
> P.S. I wrote you a long babblemail and lost it. Will write again sometime soon.
>
> Be well. Stay within the speed limits ;-)Haha yeah i feel ya. Ill be careful.
Sorry about the lost writing.. same thing happens to me all the time.
So benzos can provide relief from depression?? I got the eat alot sleep alot depression
Ld
Posted by Lamdage on June 10, 2011, at 8:09:02
In reply to Re: Sth for temporary depression relief??, posted by Lamdage on June 10, 2011, at 8:03:22
But finally.. the porsche, not the volkswagen. :D:D
Posted by floatingbridge on June 10, 2011, at 12:30:22
In reply to Re: Sth for temporary depression relief??, posted by Lamdage on June 10, 2011, at 8:09:02
Hi Lamdage,
I don't know about benzos bringing you relief. Your signature says anxiety, so it was a quick thought. I don't want to start you on an addiction.
Maybe neurontin (gabapentine) BUT I 'm not sure about maoi contraindications. If you are going on Nardil, you want to be careful any add-on or temporary relief won't slow your transition down.
Please tell me you are working with a doctor, yes?
fb
Posted by Lamdage on June 11, 2011, at 13:00:30
In reply to Re: Sth for temporary depression relief?? » Lamdage, posted by floatingbridge on June 10, 2011, at 12:30:22
> Hi Lamdage,
>
> I don't know about benzos bringing you relief. Your signature says anxiety, so it was a quick thought. I don't want to start you on an addiction.
>
> Maybe neurontin (gabapentine) BUT I 'm not sure about maoi contraindications. If you are going on Nardil, you want to be careful any add-on or temporary relief won't slow your transition down.
>
> Please tell me you are working with a doctor, yes?
>
> fbThere is no doctor for me floatingbridge as i live in a country where Nardil was discontinued due to "severe side effects". Nevertheless Parnate, wich tends to have MORE tyramine risk is available. Its nothin but german ignorance.
Unfortunately Parnate pressures me extremely so its not an option. Yes i am looking for a doctor.. but i dont think its my best bet, because it could very well be id have to see 20 pdocs and have them all mistreat and talk trash to me until i find one that supports me. Ive already been severely mistreated for month (yes by the very people who are supposed to help me) and if i continue to let people mistreat me and beg on my knees, no drug is going to help me anymore.
Please dont tread on me for this fact because i didnt choose it.
Posted by Lamdage on June 11, 2011, at 13:03:05
In reply to Re: Sth for temporary depression relief??, posted by Lamdage on June 11, 2011, at 13:00:30
Besides, i know my nardil better than 19 out of 20 sh*tty german doctors
Posted by floatingbridge on June 11, 2011, at 14:05:30
In reply to Re: Sth for temporary depression relief??, posted by Lamdage on June 11, 2011, at 13:03:05
Lamadge,
I would never tread on you or put you down for anything. I want you to know that. Even if we found ourselves in disagreement, I would work to understand with respect.
Many here have had the experience of sometimes knowing way more about our
own treatment than the doctor we are seeing. It's difficult not to become disheartened or even frightened in my own situation because of the balance of power in the doctors' favor. They hold the script pads.And yet, there are good doctors out there. Ones who will listen to their patients even if the doctors themselves do not have all the answers. Doctors are only human. And each of us and our
illnesses are so idiosyncratic and, at times, difficult as well as difficult to understand. And we all can feel hurt or insulted so easily. You've been through a lot.Parnate, I understand is too stimulating. Can you find a doctor over the German
border to treat and prescribe? It could be worth the drive to get Nardil. If you are able to get out and about. Or can you Skype and have a friends pick up your prescription?Many, many good wishes,
fb
Posted by Lamdage on June 11, 2011, at 15:13:04
In reply to Re: Sth for temporary depression relief?? » Lamdage, posted by floatingbridge on June 11, 2011, at 14:05:30
> Lamadge,
>
> I would never tread on you or put you down for anything. I want you to know that. Even if we found ourselves in disagreement, I would work to understand with respect.
>
> Many here have had the experience of sometimes knowing way more about our
> own treatment than the doctor we are seeing. It's difficult not to become disheartened or even frightened in my own situation because of the balance of power in the doctors' favor. They hold the script pads.
>
> And yet, there are good doctors out there. Ones who will listen to their patients even if the doctors themselves do not have all the answers. Doctors are only human. And each of us and our
> illnesses are so idiosyncratic and, at times, difficult as well as difficult to understand. And we all can feel hurt or insulted so easily. You've been through a lot.
>
> Parnate, I understand is too stimulating. Can you find a doctor over the German
> border to treat and prescribe? It could be worth the drive to get Nardil. If you are able to get out and about. Or can you Skype and have a friends pick up your prescription?
>
> Many, many good wishes,
>
> fbHey fb,
sorry i was a little harsh!
i agree there are good doctors out there.. The one i first saw when i took nardil. I was like "lithium orotate ive read might help stability" and he said allright but send me some links first and i will do some research to make sure its safe. He s not perfect, he has sort of let me down one time and i was very angry at this, but this lithium orotate thing shows hes a cool guy. One who listens and cares.Listening to the patient and trying to understand him should not be that hard. If you ask me its a certain batch of people who strive to have a position of power. Of course not every doctor is driven by these motives, but from my experience, the majority is.
Well im not in the US right now so i dont have the option to go to the US guy.
Thanks for the tips, i too have thought about doing this.. The next country would be belgium, like a 4 hour drive. It would be a little pricey for me to get on the train every time and i dont think german insurance pays for visits to a belgium doctor. It would be pretty sweet though.
I got one order on the way already. Im not 100% sure about this one but it should come, it seemed pretty legit and ships from within the EU.
And my neighbour just told me she knows people in belgium.
One of them might be able to get it OR i have found another website that ships and appears to be legit, but it wouldnt make it through german customs. Id send it via that website to one of the folks in belgium then.All i know is i will get it.. more than ready to take extreme measures. Ive had enough.
I hear you, i really do and i will try to find a doctor that doesnt have narcissistic tendencies AND is willing to help me with the nardil, but i need relief and i need it now. With or without doc.
Thanks for your support and concern, i really appreciate it. BTW My alter ego "caring pdoc" upped Wellbutrin to 375 and kicked venlafaxine out.
Peace
Lamdage
Posted by Lamdage on June 13, 2011, at 16:05:50
In reply to Re: Sth for temporary depression relief??, posted by Lamdage on June 11, 2011, at 15:13:04
Ok 375mg wellbutrin makes me sh*tty agitated. Not pleasant. Back to 300.
Venlafaxine is out for like 4 days and i didnt notice it missing much.
Posted by floatingbridge on June 13, 2011, at 17:04:52
In reply to Re: Sth for temporary depression relief??, posted by Lamdage on June 13, 2011, at 16:05:50
Yeah, maybe backing down on the Wellbutrin might be good, but I'm only guessing.
Kicking effexor really kicked me. Could some of your discomfort be due to that?
I don't think Wellbutrin would have had my withdrawal completely covered. That's me, though.
And I know you want to get to Nardil.
Hang in there.
fb
Posted by Lamdage on June 14, 2011, at 9:53:55
In reply to kicking effexor » Lamdage, posted by floatingbridge on June 13, 2011, at 17:04:52
> Yeah, maybe backing down on the Wellbutrin might be good, but I'm only guessing.
>
> Kicking effexor really kicked me. Could some of your discomfort be due to that?
>
> I don't think Wellbutrin would have had my withdrawal completely covered. That's me, though.
>
> And I know you want to get to Nardil.
>
> Hang in there.Well i never got alot of efficiancy from venlafaxine. I just took it because it was what the docs made me eat and its better than nothing(probably).
I believe reducing wellbutrin might be good, too. Maybe its due to a changed serotonin-dopamine relation. Leaning more toward dopamine/norepinephrine now and thus agitating. Idk. Its not like im very nervous though. Just some pretty agressive thinking :D. But then again there is alot to be pissed of about.Another question:
Ill use a medical bracelett/ID. For the sake of not being pissed of by any docs, not even in case of any urgency, id like to state that i take "Jatrosom" (parnate), because thats the one usually prescribed in germany (well like 1 out of 50 depressives).
Do these two have the same interactions??I think i will also state on the medical ID what anesthetics to use and what not.
Thanks in advance
Lamdage
Posted by Lamdage on June 15, 2011, at 8:48:08
In reply to Nardil: same Drug interactions as Parnate??, posted by Lamdage on June 14, 2011, at 9:53:55
Honestly.. im feeling better without the venlafaxine than with it. I havent had a crying jag that heartfelt and relieving in a long time.
I will never let myself be manipulated into take an emotion killer ever again. Luckily to me, nardil is just the opposite.Its amazing how the lies penetrated my mind.
Posted by Lamdage on June 16, 2011, at 3:24:28
In reply to to me its official: ssri action=death of emotions, posted by Lamdage on June 15, 2011, at 8:48:08
Venlafaxine to MAOI is 7 days according to most sources. MAOI to venlafaxine is 2 weeks
Posted by floatingbridge on June 16, 2011, at 11:27:51
In reply to effexor washout is thought to be 7 days!, posted by Lamdage on June 16, 2011, at 3:24:28
Just be careful. Promise?
fb
Posted by larryhoover on June 16, 2011, at 12:07:24
In reply to effexor washout is thought to be 7 days!, posted by Lamdage on June 16, 2011, at 3:24:28
> Venlafaxine to MAOI is 7 days according to most sources. MAOI to venlafaxine is 2 weeks
Actually, 7 days is more than enough to washout Effexor. It has such a short half-life, that 4 days would probably be enough, if you went cold turkey.
When I check interactions with phenelzine, wellbutrin is contra-indicated. I believe it's a metabolic interaction.
Lar
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.