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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 23, 2011, at 15:20:43
are maoi's more effective for bp or
bp nos?(Never mind if you've already weighed in.)
Posted by Phillipa on May 24, 2011, at 0:05:50
In reply to so, in theory...., posted by floatingbridge on May 23, 2011, at 15:20:43
Not really knowing I wouldn't think it would matter? Love Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on May 24, 2011, at 15:14:13
In reply to so, in theory...., posted by floatingbridge on May 23, 2011, at 15:20:43
The general feeling among psych veterans is probably that maois and tcas are more effective than the newer wanna bees. Clinical statistics don't shed much light on the topic however. There weren't enough good studies in the old days on the old meds, and the new studies these days on the new meds are too flawed. So I don't think you will find a reliable trustworthy answer to your question. Interesting question though.
I personally do not believe there is any kind of man made drug that will bring the kind of robust longlasting response all of us desire. I mean, sure, once in a while we'll see a rare case of someone going on 10 years of zoloft and doing fine, or someone on nardil for many years and doing fine, etc. Those examples are so few. They are not representative of what happens in the real world most of the time. The best outcomes in my opinion, in any disease physical or mental, is when the disease and symptoms are attacked from multiple different angles, of which meds are only one piece of a larger pie.
Anyway, your subject line says "in theory"....ok, in theory I believe maoi's have the best potential compared to anything else a psychiatrist might prescribe.
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 24, 2011, at 16:19:29
In reply to Re: so, in theory...., posted by bleauberry on May 24, 2011, at 15:14:13
hey, fb. I would think the MAOIs would have the greatest potential for success if all else has failed, but I'm just guessing.
There really aren't that many good studies on these drugs. I think Dr. Ivan Goldberg is a pretty big fan of MAOIs and stimulants for Bipolar NOS/Bipolar II depressives; he apparently gets good results. If I had my way, I'd totally be on Parnate right now. Seems a miracle.
Anyway, I hate to say "try it an see," but...umm...that's about how "advanced" psychiatry is at this point; you gotta get on the 'ole Meds-go-Round. Sorry. I wish it was different.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 24, 2011, at 16:22:24
In reply to Re: so, in theory...., posted by bleauberry on May 24, 2011, at 15:14:13
BB, I appreciate your answer greatly. Thanks for giving it a go. I just know (in retrospect of course) that my ssri/snri wasn't helpful. They didn't address my symptoms, in *my* case--and I ceriainly refrain from generalizing this. By the end of my course of treatment I was using more meds to compensate more meds.
That happens all the time, and I ain't knocking it. It's not what anyone
wants, but there we are. We have to get by the best we know at any given moment. I believe that.I happen to need an AD after nearly four
months off. I tried. Yes, multi-pronged is good. Also, there is no known pill for
life.Was it Aristotle who said that only death was the cure to the illness of life? Maybe not him. I'll have to look that up.
I am hoping that too much selectivity hasn't done a whack job on my brain.
But I'm a mother, not a doctor. I just need to find a way to be reasonably alright.Dr. Phelps from psycheducation.org said a small amont of progesterone could be
worth a run past my pdoc. We'll see. But that won't replace an AD. Maybe helps mood dips.For some people, when things are amiss, they are both simply and profoundly
amiss. I want to start making better risk
choices. This is hard work. I barely understand this stuff.Yes, multi-promged, proactive is very good. I hope you are doing well enough or better in your life, playing music amd having more good days than bad by
far :-) I appreciate your out of the box
thinking.fb
Posted by floatingbridge on May 24, 2011, at 16:30:18
In reply to Re: so, in theory...., posted by Christ_empowered on May 24, 2011, at 16:19:29
CE,
I should reread some of Dr Goldberg's lit.
How did you ever get so sensible by your age? Truly meant w/happy amazement and w/o condescension.
Rock on,
fb
Posted by bleauberry on May 25, 2011, at 4:03:44
In reply to Re: so, in theory.... » bleauberry, posted by floatingbridge on May 24, 2011, at 16:22:24
Nice response. Much appreciated. Heartfelt.
So for perspective, if you look in my car's glovebox or my pocket's pillbox, you'll find some meds....
ritalin....milnacipran....amisulpride....xanax....klonopin....vicadin.
I hardly ever use any. It's weird, I still carry them around as sort of comfort blankets or emergency flares. They can, at the right times, bring me more help than anything else. I just know that in regular usage or longterm usage, they carry a high price....for me anyway.On the bright side you have some decent clues to work with. You know that tweeking serotonin is not what you need....so avoiding any serotonin strategies narrows down the choices and helps to make future decisions. Now you are looking at primarily norepinephrine and/or dopamine. Just to know that is a huge step forward I think. That in itself still leaves a lot of questions, but at least is more info than you had before. So while the ssris weren't good for you, they did serve a useful purpose.
When we talk about mult-pronged or comprehensive, I'm not sure most people know what that means. To me it means....
-the healthiest food choices possible
-anti-inflammation
-antimicrobial (bacterial, fungal, and viral)
-circulation and micro circulation
-hormone support
-gland support
-immune support
-vitamins/minerals....the right ones not just any common ones
-spiritualtiy, as in the Bible
-social involvement
-exercising of a talent or giftYou said after 3 months you realized you needed to get back on meds. Me too for sure. I did some bouncing around between my best meds....maybe a few days here, a couple weeks there, and so on. Not enough for any dramatic brain changes to happen, but enough to bring some short term blips....stepping stones I called them. Anyway, it was probably close to 2 years before I realized I was getting through life ok without them. That's why spirituality is so important....I could have never made it that far without the extra strength and "coincidences" of life that were clearly not of my own.
> BB, I appreciate your answer greatly. Thanks for giving it a go. I just know (in retrospect of course) that my ssri/snri wasn't helpful. They didn't address my symptoms, in *my* case--and I ceriainly refrain from generalizing this. By the end of my course of treatment I was using more meds to compensate more meds.
>
> That happens all the time, and I ain't knocking it. It's not what anyone
> wants, but there we are. We have to get by the best we know at any given moment. I believe that.
>
> I happen to need an AD after nearly four
> months off. I tried. Yes, multi-pronged is good. Also, there is no known pill for
> life.
>
> Was it Aristotle who said that only death was the cure to the illness of life? Maybe not him. I'll have to look that up.
>
> I am hoping that too much selectivity hasn't done a whack job on my brain.
> But I'm a mother, not a doctor. I just need to find a way to be reasonably alright.
>
> Dr. Phelps from psycheducation.org said a small amont of progesterone could be
> worth a run past my pdoc. We'll see. But that won't replace an AD. Maybe helps mood dips.
>
> For some people, when things are amiss, they are both simply and profoundly
> amiss. I want to start making better risk
> choices. This is hard work. I barely understand this stuff.
>
> Yes, multi-promged, proactive is very good. I hope you are doing well enough or better in your life, playing music amd having more good days than bad by
> far :-) I appreciate your out of the box
> thinking.
>
> fb
Posted by SLS on May 25, 2011, at 7:32:17
In reply to Re: so, in theory.... » bleauberry, posted by floatingbridge on May 24, 2011, at 16:22:24
Hi FB.
Progesterone can trigger or exacerbate depression. Drospirenone, the synthetic form of progesterone found in Yasmin, is supposed to more often improve depression rather than promote it.
I don't happen to know the dosage at which progesterone would aid your treatment.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 25, 2011, at 7:40:10
In reply to Re: so, in theory...., posted by bleauberry on May 25, 2011, at 4:03:44
Hi Bleauberry.
This was a very nice post. It helped reinforce for me the importance of an multifactorial integrated program for recovery from depression and other mental illnesses.
Thanks.
- Scott
> When we talk about mult-pronged or comprehensive, I'm not sure most people know what that means. To me it means....
> -the healthiest food choices possible
> -anti-inflammation
> -antimicrobial (bacterial, fungal, and viral)
> -circulation and micro circulation
> -hormone support
> -gland support
> -immune support
> -vitamins/minerals....the right ones not just any common ones
> -spiritualtiy, as in the Bible
> -social involvement
> -exercising of a talent or gift
Posted by floatingbridge on May 25, 2011, at 12:50:26
In reply to Re: so, in theory.... » floatingbridge, posted by SLS on May 25, 2011, at 7:32:17
Hey Scott
Yasmin is a birth control pill?
I can't imagine adding one more thing right now. I do see my endocrinologist next week. Since it'll be my dime, I'll ask him some questions
Thanks :+)
fb
> Hi FB.
>
> Progesterone can trigger or exacerbate depression. Drospirenone, the synthetic form of progesterone found in Yasmin, is supposed to more often improve depression rather than promote it.
>
> I don't happen to know the dosage at which progesterone would aid your treatment.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Posted by floatingbridge on May 25, 2011, at 13:04:42
In reply to Re: so, in theory...., posted by bleauberry on May 25, 2011, at 4:03:44
BB,
I wonder what the highway patrol would think of your glovebox :-D. (Or my purse!)
Glovebox is such a quaint word, isn't it?
My multi-pronged approach is not exactly point by point with yours, but very, very similar.
Warmly,
fb
Posted by sigismund on May 25, 2011, at 14:47:09
In reply to Re: so, in theory...., posted by bleauberry on May 25, 2011, at 4:03:44
Blueberry's glovebox sounds awesome.
I want one like that.
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2011, at 20:06:03
In reply to Re: so, in theory...., posted by sigismund on May 25, 2011, at 14:47:09
FB John Lee now deceased was the "Father of Natural Hormone" From his site still kept running. The following link Phillipa hope it works
http://www.icnr.com/NaturalProgesterone/NaturalProgesterone.html
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2011, at 20:11:08
In reply to Re: so, in theory...., posted by bleauberry on May 25, 2011, at 4:03:44
One for learning and some below discussions. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2011, at 20:12:51
In reply to Re: so, in theory.... » bleauberry, posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2011, at 20:11:08
This is the end of the thread.
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