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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2011, at 19:35:26
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications...., posted by Laney on February 10, 2011, at 23:22:09
Hi Laney just on to me they are the big guns when nothing else works. Emsam is different I feel can customize sizes per my pdoc. Love Phillipa
Posted by morgan miller on February 11, 2011, at 23:55:24
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications.... » Laney, posted by Conundrum on February 11, 2011, at 12:24:50
> Laney,
> What are the negative side effects you are still suffering from? Pessimism, crying and stuff like that? or like a zombie feeling?
>
> You probably have tried this, but what about increasing the dose and seeing if a higher dose is more effective.
>
> I wish we were informed about how bad stopping these drugs could be before we started taking them. :(Or, maybe we could be more informed and experienced so that we knew if we stopped taking something that was working well without side effects that impaired normal function, our lives may be miserable and finding a medication that works may be more difficult. There's always a trade off. What were we going to do in this world of needing to function better and feel better without the medication in the first place? Continue to suffer until we maybe get better several years later? Go on disability? I think the lesson to be learned is, if you find a medication that works, and it's been working for a long time, don't stop! A real good sign for not stopping medication is if you find yourself say, "I feel good and normal on this medication without side effects, but I just don't want to have to rely on medication." I did this, and it is one of a few reasons why my life has been such a complete nightmare the last 3 years.
Conundrum, I think there is a way to heal with time, supplements, diet, exercise, and YES, medication. There is hopefully a medication out there that will help us again if our old medication no longer does. We may need to be patient and take good care of ourselves in the meantime, but it will happen for many of us. Some of us unfortunately may have a very very difficult time finding relief from medication for a painfully long time. I have experienced a taste of what this must be like so I feel very badly for those of us that are imprisoned by this long term suffering.
Posted by morgan miller on February 12, 2011, at 0:04:40
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications.... » Laney, posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2011, at 19:35:26
Laney, it seems to be a popular thing these days to start with a super low dose of Lexapro. If you end up trying it, talk to your doctor about starting at 2.5 mg. Lexapro is a very powerful medication and you may not need much to get back to feeling better. Some people stick with the 2.5 mg dose. Others go up to 5 or 10 mg. For me, 10 mg may be what I need. So far it is helping with anxiety and depression. I think it's going to be a full 3 months on Lexapro before I really am close to feeling normal again. Some depression relief can come as soon as 1 to 2 weeks, and symptoms will continue to improve as time goes by. Same goes for anxiety, but anxiety symptoms take much longer to resolve, usually taking up to 3 months before people finally report feeling "normal" again.
Posted by Conundrum on February 12, 2011, at 11:36:59
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications...., posted by morgan miller on February 11, 2011, at 23:55:24
> > Laney,
> > What are the negative side effects you are still suffering from? Pessimism, crying and stuff like that? or like a zombie feeling?
> >
> > You probably have tried this, but what about increasing the dose and seeing if a higher dose is more effective.
> >
> > I wish we were informed about how bad stopping these drugs could be before we started taking them. :(
>
> Or, maybe we could be more informed and experienced so that we knew if we stopped taking something that was working well without side effects that impaired normal function, our lives may be miserable and finding a medication that works may be more difficult. There's always a trade off. What were we going to do in this world of needing to function better and feel better without the medication in the first place? Continue to suffer until we maybe get better several years later? Go on disability? I think the lesson to be learned is, if you find a medication that works, and it's been working for a long time, don't stop! A real good sign for not stopping medication is if you find yourself say, "I feel good and normal on this medication without side effects, but I just don't want to have to rely on medication." I did this, and it is one of a few reasons why my life has been such a complete nightmare the last 3 years.
>
> Conundrum, I think there is a way to heal with time, supplements, diet, exercise, and YES, medication. There is hopefully a medication out there that will help us again if our old medication no longer does. We may need to be patient and take good care of ourselves in the meantime, but it will happen for many of us. Some of us unfortunately may have a very very difficult time finding relief from medication for a painfully long time. I have experienced a taste of what this must be like so I feel very badly for those of us that are imprisoned by this long term suffering.Obviously we aren't as bright as we need to be to realize that we must stay on these meds indefinitely. Now had my pdoc said to me, "Many people feel worse after stopping the drug and in fact suffer irreversible changes when discontinuing a drug, especially abruptly, so don't stop it if it is working," I would have either a) decided not to take it, and I was 16 at the time, so I may have gotten better on my own or b) made damn sure I got my script refilled. Instead I was told it has a long half life so there are no discontinuation symptoms. Now does that mean I should have stopped it on my own? No, but even when I went back on and then stopped it later under my doctor's supervision I still suffered massive cognitive problems afterwords for 7 years until this very day.
The problem I have with psychiatry is that no one is admitting that there are long term effects of SSRIs. There is some evidence of post ssri sexual dysfunction but nothing about emotional blunting or cognitive problems when stopping the drug. I know doctors are probably worried about being sued. That is why I've been thinking that patients should have to sign a waiver before taking psychotropic meds. The gist of the waiver would be. "This drug won't stop your heart, or your breathing or kill you, but since the brain is possibly the most complex system in the universe, there is no knowing what side effects it can cause, nor has this drug been studied for longer than 6 months (or year) so the long term effect on the brain are not known" This way everyone would know the true risks, and pdocs could be honest about what happens to patients and their cognitive/neurological/sexual complaints and actually report them to the FDA so we have a more comprehensive collection of side effects. It would also help us see that there is still a long way to go in understanding the brain.
On the pharmaceutical company side more could be done. Like when they give a rat an SSRI and it stops wanting to mate they should report that. They should also see what the rats do after long term use and after stopping the drug and let the patient know all of these things.
I think that would allow us to make more informed decisions. Now you might say, that would scare people away from psych meds altogether. It would certainly make some think twice and try other avenues first, but some who need the drugs will still take them. I'm not against psychiatry, but if they're gonna tell us some side effects of the drug, they should tell all of them, and let the patients know that some things could happen that are unpredictable.
Posted by floatingbridge on February 12, 2011, at 12:38:29
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications.... » morgan miller, posted by Conundrum on February 12, 2011, at 11:36:59
Conundrum, are you so young? I had no idea.... :(
Laney, little did you know what your question would provoke. Hope that's o.k. with you.
Imho, one does not need to be near genius levels to become a gp. Aren't gp's the main prescribers of medications? Some do not do much thinking past what
a drug rep says. They studied very little neuroscience in school.Just about three weeks ago, the guy who used (!) to manage my pain meds told me, in all (frickin) sincerity, to just stop my Cymbalta. When I protested that I had been on some form of ssri, snri for at least 12 years, he would repeatedly counter, 'yes, but you've only been on the Cymbalta for little over a month. That isn't enough time to develop a
dependency.' I felt like I was back in the 90's. (If only! I'd be running my half marathons, before the yucky meds. I could have been placed on a simple benzo, given a sleep aide, started real
therapy for anxiety, which is what I
believe, caused my breakdown--unrelenting, escalating anxiety, and horrible anxiety about insomnia. But I could be wrong.)The next time I see this guy, he's telling me, all earnestly, that he believes my
discontinuation symptoms are real, and it's like he's interviewing me, like, 'tell me about this. I've never heard of this.' This guy is supposed to manage PAIN meds. He's got a state license for crying out loud.Oh, I think I've said enough.
Best to you all on this thread. Laney, I do like Morgan's advice of low dose Lexapro. Whatever you decide, maybe, fingers crossed, this will be your ticket :)
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on February 12, 2011, at 16:36:10
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications.... » floatingbridge, posted by sigismund on February 9, 2011, at 21:32:30
Beckett for the humor. Eliot seems so dreary.
Of course, there is 'April is the cruellest month, breeding Lilacs out of dead land, mixing Memory with Desire, stirring dull roots with Spring rain....'
My springtime mantra when I lived on the east coast. My depression and overall health usually at it's worst in spring.
And I have measured out my life in coffee spoons.
My son and I are reading suitable Tintin comics together. Lately, that's what I've adopted. If you are familiar with them, I'm the Thomson/Thompson's.
Cheers, Sigi :)
> >Or Beckett.
>
> Now you're talking.
>
> Eliot comes to mind: 'Streets that follow like a tedious argument of insidious intent'.
Posted by sigismund on February 12, 2011, at 16:48:18
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications...., posted by floatingbridge on February 12, 2011, at 16:36:10
>Eliot seems so dreary.
Years ago I said to an elderly aunt that I loved Eliot. She said 'He's so gloomy'.
'Oh no', I said 'He's not gloomy at all.'When he was suffering from emphysema he was told to go to the Caribean for the English winter.
He hated the sight of all that sand and said it reminded him of snake worship.
Posted by morgan miller on February 12, 2011, at 22:10:53
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications.... » morgan miller, posted by Conundrum on February 12, 2011, at 11:36:59
I hear what you are saying. We had this conversation before I think. Its definitely complicated.
I know there may be a risk of long term adverse effects with SSRIs, how long these adverse effects last is unknown, maybe for life. Many people are on SSRIs for a while and get off them without major problems. Others, unfortunately, just don't seem to be able to recover completely. It really really sucks.
Posted by floatingbridge on February 13, 2011, at 11:30:56
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications...., posted by morgan miller on February 12, 2011, at 22:10:53
MM,
One of my bff went on Lexapro for a few months, felt better and went off.
Easy peas.
I cautioned her about starting as casually and non-alarmingly as possible. But, hey. She's fine.
Then there are others, like you, Conundrum, Laney....
:(
Posted by floatingbridge on February 13, 2011, at 12:20:31
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications.... » floatingbridge, posted by sigismund on February 12, 2011, at 16:48:18
Sigi, I said he was dreary. I didn't say he wasn't a wit :)
Gosh, you had an aunt who had read Eliot?
When my mum heard I won something for poetry, her first response was that she always hated poetry.
That was the closest to an intellectual type conversation ever.
My grandmother and I had great discussions over the old 'National
Inquirer', though :) (Back when it was incredibly lurid.)
Posted by Phillipa on February 13, 2011, at 19:01:12
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications.... » sigismund, posted by floatingbridge on February 13, 2011, at 12:20:31
FB seriously I was in the National Enquier once in an add for a back posture elastic like thing with a state trooper. I nearly died when looking through it in the grocery store and there I was. I still have the newspaper clippings. It was also published in Spanish and in the Veterans magazine at the time. Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on February 13, 2011, at 19:41:07
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications.... » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on February 13, 2011, at 19:01:12
Phillipa, really? You are a very interesting woman. That tabloid was horrifyingly sensational. Car crashes, murders, horrible celebrity gossip.
We need to start a new thread on social.
Apologies, Laney.
How are you doing? Any updates? I'll look for them.
Peace,
fb
Posted by Phillipa on February 13, 2011, at 21:05:40
In reply to okay, Laney. This has nothing to do with meds. :( » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on February 13, 2011, at 19:41:07
In my early 30's did some modeling. Made two movies also one on excercise and one on wine tasting. I was hot then!!!! Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on February 14, 2011, at 10:39:12
In reply to Re: okay, Laney. This has nothing to do with meds. :( » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on February 13, 2011, at 21:05:40
Posted by Laney on February 14, 2011, at 11:36:26
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications.... » sigismund, posted by floatingbridge on February 13, 2011, at 12:20:31
So when you guys suggest Lexapro at a low dose, are you also suggesting taking it with paxil to begin with or doing a cross taper?
Thanks!
Laney
Posted by Laney on February 14, 2011, at 11:50:34
In reply to Re: okay, Laney. This has nothing to do with meds. :( » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on February 13, 2011, at 21:05:40
Hi guys.
I see the pdoc on Wednesday. I suggested Lexapro in a email to him.
The Nortriptyline at 75mg. causes too much anxiety and has probably only increased my depression.
Do you guys think I should do a crossover to lexapro or just add it to my paxil?
Thanks!
Laney
Posted by floatingbridge on February 14, 2011, at 11:54:23
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications...., posted by Laney on February 14, 2011, at 11:36:26
Oh dear. Laney, I can't advise here. Do you have a physician overseeing?
I haven't taken Paxil. Some meds can be substituted directly. Like I went from prozac to pristiq overnight. From pristiq to cymbalta in four (though I suspect overnight would have been fine) like this:
Pristiq one night, cymbalta next, pristiq, cymbalta, then cymbalta....Anyone else have advice?
Posted by morgan miller on February 14, 2011, at 20:24:02
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications.... » Laney, posted by floatingbridge on February 14, 2011, at 11:54:23
Laney, I think your doctor will know best. I'm guessing there will be some kind of cross-taper.
Morgan
Posted by floatingbridge on February 14, 2011, at 20:45:38
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications...., posted by morgan miller on February 14, 2011, at 20:24:02
Laney,
Morgan is probably right--.
I am wondering why Paxil and Lexapro. Have you read about the combo? (I'm not saying anything one way or the other. I feel you have a knowledge of meds from your various trials.)
Your symptoms to treat are, emotional stability (crying spells), increased motivation (which to me implies feeling more pleasure), socialability? Are you
troubled by negative thoughts doubting your self worth or such?No one has mentioned how nortriptyline works. Sounds like avoiding anything like that is a good tack. Have you considered with your doctor snri's like effexor? That might cause anxiety too, but could increase motivation. It can be heck to withdraw from.
I'm rambling. Would you please let us know how it goes tomorrow?
good thoughts your way,
fb
Posted by Phillipa on February 14, 2011, at 21:34:37
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications...., posted by Laney on February 14, 2011, at 11:36:26
Laney since the paxil is low at l0mg I would think 2.5mg of lexapro added would be okay then see how you feel if seems to help maybe up lexapro while cutting slowly down on paxil. Are you going to continue with wellbutrin? Love Phillipa
Posted by morgan miller on February 14, 2011, at 23:17:58
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications.... » morgan miller, posted by floatingbridge on February 14, 2011, at 20:45:38
FB, I think Laney is on both Paxil and Nortriptyline at the moment. Ummmm, I think.
If not, then there is no need to touch Paxil again if you are going to try Lexapro.
Posted by Elanor Roosevelt on February 16, 2011, at 9:04:38
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications.... » Laney, posted by floatingbridge on February 14, 2011, at 11:54:23
I think the Lexapro is so fast acting that you could switch. Also, Lexapro is pro-social and that will be good for you. The first week on Lexapro it's good to stay busy and avoid situations that are boring/where you might feel trapped listening to someone.
Good luck
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on February 20, 2011, at 1:22:16
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Lexapro, posted by Elanor Roosevelt on February 16, 2011, at 9:04:38
K, I've got no experience, just a thought that came to me because I have heard it stated before.
I am not familiar with Paxil, but can you take a low dose of lithium with this drug...by that I mean, do they have any adverse interactions? Perhaps low dose lithium would alter/enhance the Paxil back to where you were?? Just a thought.
Also wanted to mention, I just purchased a bottle of Country Life Omega 3 Mood...it is a fish oil very high in EPA and low in DHA. I find that it gives me a similar feeling of well-being that I get after eating good tuna sushi. Certainly wouldn't hurt...it's around $17 for 45 day supply through iherb.com
Really hope you find something that works very soon!
Posted by floatingbridge on February 20, 2011, at 11:58:05
In reply to Re: What should I be aiming for? Medications...., posted by morgan miller on February 14, 2011, at 23:17:58
Posted by Laney on February 28, 2011, at 13:01:07
In reply to Laney, how's it going? (nm), posted by floatingbridge on February 20, 2011, at 11:58:05
Hi guys!
Thanks for all your concern and replies.
I'm decreasing the Nort. because mainly the side effects of weight gain (22 lbs in 9 months), dry mouth and constipation (bad).
Paxil withdrawl for me has always been absolute hell so I'm hoping a switch from that to Lexapro will do the trick.
Doctor agrees that becuase of the weight gain, I should discontinue the Nort.
I'll keep posted on the Lexapro switch!
Blessings!
Laney
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