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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 27, 2011, at 22:47:30
alprazolam has been great if I take it every (0.25 mg) 4-5 hours...but eeps that is a PITA! So, doc is talking about clonazepam, says it's a cousin of xanax, and basically just lasts longer, but has very similar effect. What does one feel like compared to the other? Does it knock you out or make you feel flat? Or does it seem to do really well at keeping constant anxiety at bay? ANY experiences appreciated.
On my last couple of the xanax, so have to call for a Rx tomorrow, and either change or stay with what I'm doing. WWYD?
I may ask him if I can get the refill of the xanax (the container says I have 1 refill--enough for a week if it's stressfull, 2 weeks if it isn't) and switch over to the klonopin. If the klonopin doesn't work the way I had hoped I at least have the xanax on hand while figuring out a better action plan.
Also, is klonopin taken at night? Does it make one sleepy? If so, that may knock out having to use ambien which would be nice.
One thing I learned NOT to do...I don't experiment with the drugs, but I was feeling just totally unmotivated to do the things I need to do, so I took 2.5 mg of Adderall to get my butt really moving...took it about the same time I took Xanax...I cannot tell you how sick and disoriented it made me feel. Hot and cold chills, goosebumps, nauseaus and then just kinda spacey for a few hours. w/o really knowing, my gut tells me it was because they were taken at the same time and hitting my brain/nerves with everything and it all just got lost in translation. Felt very much not like myself. ~~anyhow, that's my 'fun' story for the day
Posted by Christ_empowered on January 27, 2011, at 23:03:42
In reply to Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences?, posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 27, 2011, at 22:47:30
Klonopin and xanax are equally strong, but Klonopin lasts longer (2x daily dosing can keep you calm all day) and Klonopin was initially used for epilepsy; the anti-anxiety use came later.
In my experience, Klonopin is awesome if you're going to be on a benzo for a while (it takes a while to kick in, so its not the greatest as-needed tranquilizer ever) and you have problems with agitation. I've been prescribed Klonopin for social phobia and as part of a cocktail to get me through a severe manic episode. It has "mood-stabilizing" properties that xanax doesn't (xanax has mild antidepressant properties, so its good if you run on the depressive end of things).
Klonopin is known for causing drug-induced depression. I developed depression after 6 months on 2mgs/day; the depression lifted after I tapered. That said, Klonopin has saved me before. I used it after a manic episode, I've used it to help w/ side-effects from neuroleptics, and I've used it on days when I was just plain "feelin' crazy."
Have you tried Ativan (lorazepam) ? Its not as strong as xanax, but it lasts longer (not as long as Klonopin), and it kicks in quickly. Its commonly used in hospitals for sedating agitated people. If you're going to be taking a benzo daily for a while, Klonopin can be really convenient; if you're looking for a PRN med, I'd either stick w/ xanax or try switching to slightly higher dose Ativan.
Posted by Phillipa on January 28, 2011, at 0:35:36
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences?, posted by Christ_empowered on January 27, 2011, at 23:03:42
I feel Christ Empowered gave an excellent example of the meds and true xanax has some ad effects, for me klonopin depressed me. I feel klonopin is the strongest of the benzos for me. Ativan I've taken and it does last longer and has less interractions than the other benzos. Valium is the longest acting full 24 hours. And it's the mildest but strong first one I ever used and been on them for 40 years. Never abused them as when anxiety under control why would you want to just wish to feel normal right? Phillipa
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 28, 2011, at 6:57:13
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences?, posted by Phillipa on January 28, 2011, at 0:35:36
Hmmm...well, with that description, maybe xanax is the best answer for me 'right now'...I am definitely on the depressive side of the spectrum...and I did notice that the xanax lifted my mood. Either that or the Lamictal is starting to kick in too...or both? (titrate up to 50mg from 25 today) I too only take the xanax as necessary...but have a pretty stressful situation coming up as I'll be re-locating (tomorrow) for business for 2 months.
How long does klonopin take to start working?
Did it make you kind of depressed/lazy/foggy? If it isn't too personal...how high of a dose was it?
Posted by Christ_empowered on January 28, 2011, at 7:28:44
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences?, posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 28, 2011, at 6:57:13
Hey. For me, Klonopin takes 20minutes to kind of kick in and 45 minutes-1 hour to fully kick in. When I took it as PRN med, this was a big problem; I'd take a little bit, feel a bit of relief, and take another little bit to ease my remaining anxiety. A while later...I was too sedated.
The most I've taken is 2mgs/day, which is a fairly standard dose for Klonopin.
In terms of thinking ability...I really think it depends. Benzos can make you stupid, and you don't always sense it. Then again, anxiety/agitation can make you stupid, too, so sometimes benzos can at least make you calmer and more rational. My Klonopin-induced depression took months of daily use to develop; I imagine that if I'd been able to use it PRN I might not have gotten so sad.
If xanax works for you and you don't need daylong sedation, I'd personally say stick with it--I mean, why switch something up when it helps, right? The do make a controlled-release xanax, too, but I don't think its very commonly prescribed.
Good luck
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 28, 2011, at 8:57:33
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences?, posted by Christ_empowered on January 28, 2011, at 7:28:44
Oh, 20-45 min to kick in...that isn't bad. I was thinking, like a week to really get in the system or something. The issue I have been having with the xanax is that I'll take it and have no anxiety, be more social...great...then 4 hours later, bam, back to constant cyclical thinking/anxiety...then it takes, for me, about 30 min or so to kick in. I don't really get sleepy on it anymore, though. If I could pin it to the minute it works for I could just set an alarm and take it 20 min before I need it.
I am assuming (hoping) much of this will taper off as the Lamictal builds in my system.
If I take klonopin around 11 PM when I go to bed, will it put me to sleep? If so, would I wake up and not have to worry about it til around 11 when I take a break again anyway??
If that is the case I wouldn't have to take ambien. But have also heard that benzos disturb the REM sleep. Agggh so confusing...or am I making it more complicated than I need to?
Think I'll call the office now to have pdoc call and see if I can try the klonopin for a couple weeks, and go ahead and fill the Rx I already have for the xanax. That way, if the klonopin doesn't work well for me I can go back to the xanax and not have to rush to get an rx.
Sorry for all of the questions!!! Thank you for your responses they have been really helpful!
Posted by Christ_empowered on January 28, 2011, at 14:29:36
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences? » Christ_empowered, posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 28, 2011, at 8:57:33
Klonopin really isn't a good sleeping pill. When I first took it, I took 2/3 of my dose with dinner; for a week or so, I was kind of lulled to sleep (not as powerful as, say, Ambien). Then after a week or so, I was able to start taking more of it during the day w/o any noticeable sedation/stupidity.
Klonopin does have a long half-life, but I found that I still needed some during the day, even when I first started (then again, I'm more manic/agitation prone than you are--your mileage may vary). Even though its still in your system hours upon hours later (especially if you take it daily--then you might get build-up), you might need a booster dose.
I think giving it a whirl is a good idea; it does last a long time and its considered "better" than xanax by many doctors. Even though it can induce depression, some people with depression benefit from taking it along with some sort of antidepressant. It reduces antidepressant side effects and overall agitation/anxiety levels.
Good luck!
Posted by linkadge on January 28, 2011, at 18:13:43
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences?, posted by Christ_empowered on January 28, 2011, at 14:29:36
I'm not all that happy with klonazepam right now. It does help anxiety, but its not a great sleeping pill (not as useful as zopiclone was).
I have been noticing the depressant action, which I think I had been denying.
I have not tried xanax, but find lorazepam a bit more tollerable personally.
Linkadge
Posted by phillipa on January 28, 2011, at 22:04:30
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences?, posted by linkadge on January 28, 2011, at 18:13:43
Truth be that when I tried klonopin was trying to switch from xanax to klonopin and sitting there right away felt suicidal but wasn't called pdoc and he called me back said go off the klonopin take a xanax. I did and bingo no suicidal feeling. Hence klonopin depresses me. Phillipa
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 28, 2011, at 22:48:28
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences?, posted by phillipa on January 28, 2011, at 22:04:30
Well, talked with pdoc, staying with xanax...afraid mood might flatten out and get drowsy...CANNOT have that happen (I have a sales/physio therapy type job...self-employed). So, I'm going to try to really pay attention to when it kicks in, when it kicks out and try to only use it during working hours or if I get what I 'fondly' call, hampster-wheel brain after working hours. I do not feel that I have an addictive personality, so I'm not really afraid of becoming dependent on it.
Good to hear from all different experiences....it is truly amazing how broad the spectrum is and how different the reactions can be. Obviously, that is why this forum is here! Thanks for the respones :o)
Posted by morgan miller on January 28, 2011, at 23:22:16
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences?, posted by Christ_empowered on January 28, 2011, at 7:28:44
>Hey. For me, Klonopin takes 20minutes to kind of kick in and 45 minutes-1 hour to fully kick in. When I took it as PRN med, this was a big problem; I'd take a little bit, feel a bit of relief, and take another little bit to ease my remaining anxiety. A while later...I was too sedated.
I don't mind waiting 30 to 45 minutes to get relief from a drug that I know won't destabilize me as much and will likely be easier to come off of when I decide I'm ready. You should be able to avoid feeling too sedated on klonopin by taking low doses. It's powerful so you should not need much. You are not trying to completely wipe out anxiety here, you just want to it to be manageable and to be able to function well.
For many people, Klonopin can have an antidepressant effect. Everyone is different. For me, eventually I just felt a bit too numb on it, even at a very very low dose. But I wouldn't recommend being on a benzo for a long time unless it was the only thing that really worked. I guess you could say that about any drug. Believe it or not, there is a fairly well known doctor out there that actually uses Klonopin to treat chronic fatigue syndrome.
I thought that Ativan is very powerful and highly addictive, maybe I'm wrong about that. They use Ativan in hospitals(emergency rooms and psych wards) all the time to calm the highly agitated and misbehaving patients. I just remember when I was at the local private psychiatric hospital there was a repeat visitor, some ragged homeless dude that, when agitated and in need would yell, "Where's my damn Ativan!"
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on January 28, 2011, at 23:24:45
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences? » Christ_empowered, posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 28, 2011, at 8:57:33
>Oh, 20-45 min to kick in...that isn't bad. I was thinking, like a week to really get in the system or something. The issue I have been having with the xanax is that I'll take it and have no anxiety, be more social...great...then 4 hours later, bam, back to constant cyclical thinking/anxiety...then it takes, for me, about 30 min or so to kick in. I don't really get sleepy on it anymore, though. If I could pin it to the minute it works for I could just set an alarm and take it 20 min before I need it.
This doesn't sound so good. Hopefully you will feel good and stabilized on Lamictal soon and be able to drop the benzo use. Benzos are a bad treatment for mood management IMO.
Posted by morgan miller on January 28, 2011, at 23:35:11
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences?, posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 28, 2011, at 22:48:28
>I do not feel that I have an addictive personality, so I'm not really afraid of becoming dependent on it.
It's not a psychological addiction, it's a physiological addiction. You can very easily end up with worse anxiety trying to come off it than you had before you started it. I'm also not crazy about what benzos do to the brain and how that may affect it in the long run. Can you tell I'm not a fan of benzos?
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 28, 2011, at 23:46:43
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences?, posted by morgan miller on January 28, 2011, at 23:35:11
> >I do not feel that I have an addictive personality, so I'm not really afraid of becoming dependent on it.
>
> It's not a psychological addiction, it's a physiological addiction. You can very easily end up with worse anxiety trying to come off it than you had before you started it. I'm also not crazy about what benzos do to the brain and how that may affect it in the long run. Can you tell I'm not a fan of benzos?LOL...no not at all...lol
Here's the thing though....I'm going to be in a very stressful situation (for me) in a few days. I kinda know how the xanax affects me. I am leary to go into the stressful situation not knowing how the klonipin is going to work. I cannot be flat.period.at all. This type of work has me in front of people all day long and can also be physically draining when I get busy. It is definitely not a perfect solution, but one hopefully that can work in the interim.
As far as Lamictal goes I hope so too....I'm definitely not as low as I was, and not feeling nearly as anxious, but have some concerns about possible side effects...see update from previous thread.
Your responses are always appreciated, thank you Morgan. :o)
Posted by morgan miller on January 29, 2011, at 0:27:13
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences? » morgan miller, posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 28, 2011, at 23:46:43
Sticking with Xanax for now sounds like an o.k. idea to me. Maybe try lowering the dose you currently use to see if you still get a beneficial effect that will allow you to function as needed. Then in a few weeks you can start to think about weening off Xanax if you really think Lamictal is taking hold.
Ya know, it might not be a bad idea to just get a script of klonopin from the doc and trial it during a time when you are free of the responsibilities that will be challenging you. This way at least you get an idea of how you respond to it. Can't hurt.
Morgan
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 29, 2011, at 7:46:06
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences? » BetweenDreams81, posted by morgan miller on January 29, 2011, at 0:27:13
That's right on the money...that's right along the lines of what I was thinking too.
The xanax is I 'think' the smallest dose, 0.25 mg? I have the ok for up to 4x/day, but I often try to only take it 2x/day. It is only when I get really stressed that I take more than the 2/day.
I do think the lamictal is kicking in. This is the first morning in AGES that I woke up without an alarm and felt 'brighter' just have more ENERGY!...did not take an ambien last night either. (very active dreams that I can actually remember...which never happens) So despite that my body feels crappy right now, I am feeling much better. (I did add Planetary Schisandra though, b/c my gut says kidneys need support, lymphnodes hurt like crazy) Hopefully this is a good sign and it will continue along this vein. :o)
Thanks again, Morgan...you have been incredibly helpful and supportive.
Posted by morgan miller on January 29, 2011, at 11:41:46
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences? » morgan miller, posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 29, 2011, at 7:46:06
That's great you are seeing signs of improvement. I'm sure whatever side effects you are noticing will subside with time. Hopefully as you go up to 100(typically the minimal therapeutic dose) you will continue to see improvement without any major bumps in the road. Some people have stuck with 50mg with success. Most I believe need to be at 100mg or more. I think Scott has mentioned people noticing improvement at 50, going back to feeling crappy again around 75, and needing to be at 100 before stabilizing and really starting to feel good, so beware.
Yeah .25 mg Xanax is the lowest I think, that's good.
Hope things keep improving!
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 29, 2011, at 21:11:17
In reply to Re: Klonopin vs Xanax...What are your experiences?, posted by morgan miller on January 29, 2011, at 11:41:46
Thanks! I definitely was way more interested in reading and finishing what I started reading...noticed lyrics to songs, just overall, felt a lot lighter.
After this experience, I am afraid of the next jump. It's supposed to be 2 weeks at 50mg, and then it jumps up to 100mg the week after. If it is anything like what I experienced yesterday...uuugggggh, it was horrible. But today was better. Damn lymphnodes...feel like ripping them out. Apparently I am in the 6-7% that get these symptoms. Go figure. Though, relatively small price to pay if these side effects go away and I feel better. I'll call the office Monday morning to see if there is a way to titrate a little slower, or?? We shall see.
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