![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 18 to 42 of 81. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2010, at 18:30:17
In reply to Re: *Not* Thinking in terms of meds, posted by linkadge on December 19, 2010, at 18:20:54
For me now older I blame all symptoms on my brain when the symptoms could be due to a physical cause. Right now worried badly as felt faint earlier when bike riding. And see endo tomorrow almost hope he will find my thyroid off as have so tired and just uninterested in people, places, things I feel like a robot. I do know what you mean. Especially when changes in meds do nothing hope for me dies. Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on December 19, 2010, at 18:44:40
In reply to Re: *Not* Thinking in terms of meds, posted by morgan miller on December 19, 2010, at 13:59:46
>The problem is, when we go out to the coffee >shop and feel so uncomfortable that we can't >really fully enjoy it and get the most out of >the experience, we then start to say, "Damn, no >matter what efforts I make, I don't seem to feel >right without the right medication".
It doesn't matter if you fully enjoy it or not. We are so focused on needing to enjoying things. Its all about me, what will this do for me? I was feeling miserable last week and wanted to take the day off. I didn't take the day off, I went to work and felt miserable most of the day. But, after I was done I felt great. I didn't just give up and call it quits on the day.
I do believe there is something wrong with depressed individuals, but I believe we feed the illness. When we are told that "it is all in our heads", part of us dies. When we believe this, we stop working on trying to feel better and want to sit back and expect the medications do all the work (which they never will). And when something small goes wrong, we have to "change medications" or augment with this or that.
>I think most people here are hyper-focused on >medication because they have tried getting out, >exercising, and doing other positive things >without a consistent positive response and >consistent relief of symptoms.
Nothing will being consistent symptom relief.
>Linkage, have you ever thought that maybe the >things you struggle with are not as severe as >many people here?
I don't think that is anything you are qualified (me being here, and you being there) to question.
I think that I have had some severe problems, but I think that there are beneficial brain regions that can be strenthened, if you care to strenthen them.
Did you know that practicing juggling for a month significantly increases grey matter volume in certain areas of the brain? Even the process of "acting" well, when you are not feeling well, probably helps to strenthen the circuits involved in normal emotional function. I think the worst thing you can do is *give up* on engaging potentially adverse situations just because you don't like the way they make you feel.
If you continue to throw yourself in situations that put you outside of your comfort zone, your brain will grow, adapt and respond. If you sit around and expect drugs to fix all your problems, your brain will atrophy.
>Still, I have heard you speak of being able to >go run and get relief, something I and many >others here cannot do.
B*llsh*t. You don't want to do it. If there was a crazy axe murderer chasing you, you'd move. Quit thinking about what makes you feel good. Just do it, and watch yourself respond.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 19, 2010, at 18:50:47
In reply to Re: Sorry: stupid question for this group of (course), posted by violette on December 19, 2010, at 15:59:20
My belief is that after you have gone through the medication merry go round, pick the one or two medications that help the best and then take them for a year and forget about it.
Don't have any energy? Ask a good friend do drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you to find your way home.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 19, 2010, at 19:01:25
In reply to Re: Sorry: stupid question for this group of (course), posted by linkadge on December 19, 2010, at 18:50:47
Did you know that stress increases the level of a chemcal called isatin? Isatin is a highly potent monoamine oxidase A/B inhibitor. It also inhibits acetycholinsterase!
Hmm, when you push / stress yourself, your brain releases an MAOI! (with potentially procognative effects) What an interesting concept? MAOIs......yes, the most potent class of chemical antidepressants currently known to man..... Adversity boosts the production of natural antidepresants.
Thats all I am saying here. If you sit around expecting the energy and motivation to just magically come to you, you may be sitting around forever. Put yourself in a situation which gets you out of your comfort zone, and your brain might actually suprise you.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on December 19, 2010, at 20:11:28
In reply to Re: *Not* Thinking in terms of meds » linkadge, posted by SLS on December 19, 2010, at 8:29:27
The intense focus of a patient on the science and clinical application of psychotherapeutic agents can, at first, seem like an obsession. This is really a survival mechanism. It is the aversion to never-ending pain that produces never-ending study. If doctors have not been able to fix us, what better choice do we have but to dedicate all of our focus and energies into finding a cure? It is only logical for one to invest themselves in finding a way to end a painful and empty existence.
- Scott
Posted by morgan miller on December 19, 2010, at 20:58:50
In reply to Re: *Not* Thinking in terms of meds, posted by linkadge on December 19, 2010, at 18:44:40
>B*llsh*t. You don't want to do it. If there was a crazy axe murderer chasing you, you'd move. Quit thinking about what makes you feel good. Just do it, and watch yourself respond.
That's not true at all in my case, I literally can't. I have too many physical issues. Believe me, my physical issues that keep me from running have zero to do with my agitation, anxiety, depression, or other bipolar symptoms.
Really, after all this time on here complaining about antidepressants you are now telling me to just go do it and don't focus on what makes me feel better? Dude, come on.
You seem to like getting angry with me, as if I am always out on the attack to get you. Or maybe you do this with others here as well, and I just don't notice it because it is all about me. I was just telling you how things appeared here, not that I actually claimed to know you or what is really going on with you.
Posted by morgan miller on December 19, 2010, at 21:03:31
In reply to Re: Sorry: stupid question for this group of (course), posted by linkadge on December 19, 2010, at 18:50:47
> My belief is that after you have gone through the medication merry go round, pick the one or two medications that help the best and then take them for a year and forget about it.
>
> Don't have any energy? Ask a good friend do drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you to find your way home.I agree with the first part. But the second, not so sure about that. I may have thought that way a few years ago, but now, for the first time in my life, no matter what I try or do, I feel like complete sh*t half of the time. I now truly understand fatigue. When fatigue comes from a physiological source, when your body simply is not functioning properly, there is not much you can do except to try to get to the bottom of the cause and treat it.
Posted by Maxime on December 19, 2010, at 22:06:28
In reply to Re: Sorry: stupid question for this group of (course), posted by morgan miller on December 19, 2010, at 21:03:31
My depression is so bad that my pdoc has requested that I contact him *every day* to give him an update.
Yet I hold down 3 jobs (only 1 full time), I do volunteer work and I take care of my mom who has Alzheimers. I have been accused by doctors ( in the past) that I must not be truly depressed if I do the things that I do. My response has always been, imagine what I COULD do if I didn't suffer from BP type II, anxiety, PTSD and MS. I do all these things and yet at night, or when I am in the car I cry and cry because everything hurts. Every part of my body hurts, and the depression takes over.
So I don't think that doing all these things helps my depression, it just allows me to push the pain further down inside me which is probably the MOST unhealthy thing for anyone to do. I cry A LOT. I cut a LOT. I shake a lot.
And I wish I could go into a coffee shop and sit down like a normal person and have a coffee. But my anxiety is too great to do that. I've tried, but at the most I have lasted 3 minutes.
Posted by morgan miller on December 20, 2010, at 0:47:53
In reply to Re: *Not* Thinking in terms of meds, posted by morgan miller on December 19, 2010, at 20:58:50
>Really, after all this time on here complaining about antidepressants you are now telling me to just go do it and don't focus on what makes me feel better? Dude, come on.
Don't have the energy to rephrase this at the moment, just want to say that I was feeling a bit frustrated at the time(over a few different things, one being my life) and I would not normally have expressed myself in this way towards you.
>You seem to like you are always getting angry with me, as if I am always out on the attack to get you. Or maybe you do this with others here as well, and I just don't notice it because it is all about me. I was just telling you how things appeared here, not that I actually claimed to know you or what is really going on with you.
Same goes for this statement as well.
I hope you understood my sentiments without taking things too personally.
Morgan
Posted by bleauberry on December 20, 2010, at 5:39:22
In reply to *Not* Thinking in terms of meds, posted by linkadge on December 17, 2010, at 18:19:43
I think pbabble does tend to highlight an OCD-like behavior amongst most of us....obsessed with meds.
I totally support meds, but I think we too often lose context and perspective. In only rare cases do we see a pill(s) restore someone to who they wish to be.
That's why I tend to think in terms of the whole body and total health, not becoming engrossed with only the outward symptoms we see from the brain being impacted. In that regard, I have a fair amount of OCD. :-)
Clinical trials and anecdotal evidence do not support the kind of faith and hope that most of us put into meds.
No one ever had a deficiency of prozac. But for sure they do have a deficiency of neurotransmitter production, methylcobabaline, p5p, gut integrity, methyl groups, cortisol, immune system, anti-inflammatory; and sometimes an overabundance of things like heavy metals, fungi, and bacteria. All of the drugs we focus our lives on do nothing on any of these issues.
For sure though, IMO, the right med combined with a comprehensive multi-pronged strategy can restore people from the dark more reliably than a med alone.
Posted by SLS on December 20, 2010, at 5:51:55
In reply to Re: Sorry: stupid question for this group of (course), posted by Maxime on December 19, 2010, at 22:06:28
> My depression is so bad that my pdoc has requested that I contact him *every day* to give him an update.
What is it about your current mental state that worries your doctor?
Do you come to feel suicidal without a mood-congruent intensification of depression?
> Yet I hold down 3 jobs (only 1 full time), I do volunteer work and I take care of my mom who has Alzheimers. I have been accused by doctors ( in the past) that I must not be truly depressed if I do the things that I do.
Some doctors can be very ignorant of the widely variable presentations of the same depressive illness. Unless this variability is fully appreciated by the clinician, people are bound to fall through the holes present in the current inadequacies of diagnosis.
> So I don't think that doing all these things helps my depression, it just allows me to push the pain further down inside me which is probably the MOST unhealthy thing for anyone to do.
I guess this is a statement that can only display exactitude when describing your personal experience with depression. Depression has many faces. Pervasive feelings of sadness, anhedonia, apathy, lack of self-esteem, and self-hatred. However, when anergia, psychomotor retardation and amotivation become prominent in the presentation of depression, holding 3 jobs is impossible. For me to compare my inability to hold 1 job to your ability to maintain 3, it might at first appear that you are not as severely depressed as I am. However, you may experience an intensity of psychic pain that I do not. Comparing is tempting. It is only natural to want to evaluate another's depression in order to better understand your own. I believe that there is an effort made by some people to find vindication for their perceived "failures" and difficulties in life. To look for examples of depression that appear similar one's own, and whose "failures" in life are comparable, one realizes that depressive illness is real, ,debilitating, and not a demonstration of laziness. Even if true, it doesn't feel good for a persoon to think that their depression is the most severe or refractory to treatment. It is very likely that there exists someone in the world whose illness is worse than yours. If you are lucky, you might extract some gratitude from recognizing that your depression is not. I have witnessed people stricken with what is perhaps the most horrendous display of depression. The classic endogenous melancholic depression with severe psychomotor retardation causes the suffer to fold back in on themselves. People with this subtype of depression often remain fixed in one position for hours for lack of energy and inertia. At her mother's request to wait on me and serve me a glass of water, my eyes filled up with tears. To my anger and disgust, I witnessed her daughter walk across the kitchen, expending all of what precious energy she could muster in order to take just one step. She was dead inside. Within a few months, she was dead outside, too. To learn of her suicide filled me with profound sadness. It wasn't fair that someone should endure such torture; so much that life was deemed less valuable than death.
Depression must surely have many faces. Who can keep up with them all? The DSM? In my opinion, the sections of this diagnostic manual devoted to the descriptions of MDD and BD are primitive and embarrassing to read. It is no wonder that so many patients have little faith in the accuracy of a doctor's diagnosis. For now, resolving a workable diagnosis for an individual is an ongoing process, and often involves trial-and-error in the same way as does choice of treatment.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on December 20, 2010, at 6:09:50
In reply to Re: *Not* Thinking in terms of meds, posted by bleauberry on December 20, 2010, at 5:39:22
> I think pbabble does tend to highlight an OCD-like behavior amongst most of us....obsessed with meds.
I think you would glean more respect for the phenomenology of the mental illness known as "OCD"; a psychobiological illness that can prevent people from functioning in any milieu. There is a difference the meanings of the words "obsessive", "compulsive", and obsessive compulsive personality disorder (OCPD), and true OCD.
On a forum such as Psycho-Babble, I think it is critically important not to make the same mistakes of ignorance that are still perpetrated in the general population when it comes to mental illness. We owe it to ourselves to be careful with how we use clinical nomenclature.
- Scott
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on December 20, 2010, at 10:22:30
In reply to *Not* Thinking in terms of meds, posted by linkadge on December 17, 2010, at 18:19:43
> Does anybody here find themselves continually thinking about all of their problems in terms of medications?
>
> It seems like this is almost an OCD like behavior where we have learned to convince ourselves that the only solution for our mysery is to tweak this med or that.
>
> We are like drug addicts who have become so focused on a single chemical solution, that we fail to believe in the possibility that anything but a new medication can provide any sense of happiness, stability or well being in our lives.
>
> You know what I started doing the other day? Going to a local coffee shop in the morning. I just walked right in, bought a coffee and said good morning to a stranger. We talked. I go back there now and people know my name. Strange huh? Its sure a nice alternative to waking up and checking "babble" for more leads on the magic cocktail.
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
>Linkadge I think it is great if you are finding a more straight forward strategy that is working for you. I agree it is unwise to expect there to be some magic fix all. However I can say that I've tried to improve in every possible way for many many years, before I even tried my first medication. As my conditions gets worse and more severe, it is next to impossible to simply snap out of it.
Posted by bleauberry on December 20, 2010, at 17:44:11
In reply to Re: *Not* Thinking in terms of meds » bleauberry, posted by SLS on December 20, 2010, at 6:09:50
> > I think pbabble does tend to highlight an OCD-like behavior amongst most of us....obsessed with meds.
>
> I think you would glean more respect for the phenomenology of the mental illness known as "OCD"; a psychobiological illness that can prevent people from functioning in any milieu. There is a difference the meanings of the words "obsessive", "compulsive", and obsessive compulsive personality disorder (OCPD), and true OCD.
>
> On a forum such as Psycho-Babble, I think it is critically important not to make the same mistakes of ignorance that are still perpetrated in the general population when it comes to mental illness. We owe it to ourselves to be careful with how we use clinical nomenclature.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>But Scott, you just got finished saying in another post how inaccurate and embarrassing labels are that they require trial and error like the treatment itself does.
I wasn't approaching this particular thread with heavy seriousness. Kind of a refreshing off the wall topic Link threw out there that served a good purpose of distracting from the usual routines.
Obsessive Compulsive behavior. We can tease and twist these words all we want, and it will be done differently even by doctors, but it is what it is and really doesn't need a sophisticated explanation.
In our case here at pbabble, the difference is that I do not see it as being a disorder with most of us. OC without the D. One who is ill cannot help but be consumed with the suffering and the ways to get out of it. That's not a disorder. That is pure human defense and survival. But, it is still obsessed by a dictionary definition, and that person often makes compulsive decisions and choices. It's all part of the human journey when chronic illness is intertwined, but I don't see that as a disorder in any way.
Posted by Maxime on December 20, 2010, at 18:49:03
In reply to Re: Sorry: stupid question for this group of (course), posted by SLS on December 20, 2010, at 5:51:55
> > My depression is so bad that my pdoc has requested that I contact him *every day* to give him an update.
>
> What is it about your current mental state that worries your doctor?He is worried because when I am not at work, I now go into a trance state for several hours at night. I don't know how to describe than a trance. This is new for me (new for me lately, I once spent 4 months in that state). He is trying to figure out what triggers it so when I get home from work I send him an email about my day and what I am feeling at that exact moment. He also knows that my job have finished now until January and that I will get worse even depression wise.
I know it will sound strange, but the more depressed I get, the less thoughts of suicide I will have. I also become unable to plan a suicide attempt. He is not worried right now about suicide.
I am still in my PJs and I spent most of the day in bed because getting up was too much for me. I cried a lot. My body hurts more than usual today as well. I have no idea what I will be like tomorrow.
You brought up so many excellent and I would like to comment on them, but I can't right now. It's too much. It always intrigues me when you talk about having cognitive dulling yet you can write very eleborate and intelligent posts. I can only imagine what you could write if you didn't have the cognitive dulling. Are there parts of the day when your cognitive skills are better?
Maxime
Posted by linkadge on December 21, 2010, at 8:48:13
In reply to Re: *Not* Thinking in terms of meds, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on December 20, 2010, at 10:22:30
I am just saying that, with depression you have to continually battle it from all sides.
It seems like, when some new fancy medication comes out, people get wished away in the magical world of neurotransmitters, where any frame of mind is achievable with the right medication coctail.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 21, 2010, at 9:08:39
In reply to Re: *Not* Thinking in terms of meds » SLS, posted by bleauberry on December 20, 2010, at 17:44:11
>but I don't see that as a disorder in any way
It becomes a disorder when it is maladaptive. This behavior that many of us engage in *is* maladaptive. We are just simply in denial. I've seen people who are quite satisfied with their medication regiment one day, calling up the doctor demanding a medication change the next. Why?
We don't realize how innapropriate it is for us to sit around here and chat about medications, when
a) nobody has a clue how they work
b) few / none of us can prescribe them
c) they rarely work in the same way for two individuals
d) we hear bad things that discourage us from continuing a single treatment
e) we become convinced about the efficacy or lack therof of particular medicationsWhat the hell does this board actually do for anybody? Seriously. It provides the illusion that we are more in control of our medical treatment then we are. The board just breeds dissatisfaction.
I liken this board to a hobbiest site, say model airplanes. We just sit around and talk, and sooner or later, the user just has to buy a new model airplane.
Or, my father watches all sort of home renovation shows. Every time he does, he's got to buy a new tool, or rip apart a new part of the house. The show produces dissatisfaction.
Lets be honest here. This board is just an excuse for a bunch of people to sit around and talk about something that interests us. Its rarely going to lead to any form of healing (other than a place for social interaction around a common theme).
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 21, 2010, at 9:22:45
In reply to Re: Sorry: stupid question for this group of (course), posted by morgan miller on December 19, 2010, at 21:03:31
>for the first time in my life, no matter what I >try or do, I feel like complete sh*t half of the >time. I now truly understand fatigue.
>When fatigue comes from a physiological source, >when your body simply is not functioning >properly, there is not much you can do except to >try to get to the bottom of the cause and treat >it.
Whatever.
I'm not saying that people can't be fatigued. However, fatigue is all relative.
Nomatter what you do on this board, there will always be people working infinately harder to establish that they are sicker than what you realize. You really can't do anything with these people, because when people are in the state of mind that they are working extremely hard to establish how ill they are, there mind is not working very hard to find ways to get better.
I've seen people with extreme fatigue due to clinical depression, have remission from a single night of sleep deprivation. These people are able to get up and go about their normal routiene during the short period of remission. How could a night of lack of sleep actually improve fatigue? Because its their mind telling them they are fatigued.
Its like my brother when he was younger. He always used to get ill and have "no energy to do anything". He said his legs were to *way* weak to even get out of bed. It tricked him one day by putting a $20 bill on the other side of the hall.
Its all relative. Your fatigue will never be so great as when you conclude that your fatigue is so great. And like I said above, theres not much point in arguing with people who are out to establish how sick they are.
Linkadge
Posted by bleauberry on December 21, 2010, at 17:30:28
In reply to Re: *Not* Thinking in terms of meds » bleauberry, posted by linkadge on December 21, 2010, at 9:08:39
Link, your comments to me and others in this thread are some of the most profound wisdom I've ever encountered on this board. Man you hit a home run the way I see it.
I do believe that when we pin all our hopes on pills, we are indeed engaging in maladaptive behavior that is destined to lose the war against depression. Depression has too many causes and impacts every corner of the body. It indeed requires a wide ranging comprehensive approach, of which a pill is only one piece of the whole pie. To ignore the whole pie is, as you said, maladaptive.
imo
Posted by SLS on December 22, 2010, at 4:45:36
In reply to Re: *Not* Thinking in terms of meds » bleauberry, posted by linkadge on December 21, 2010, at 9:08:39
Hi Linkadge.
> What the hell does this board actually do for anybody?
I think that depends on the person.
You present some very insightful points. For me, this website helps give me hope in the face of desperation. Are we all non-reponders to all available treatments? I doubt it, but the percentage of people here who meet any accepted definition of TRD must surely be higher than what is found in the total population of people being treated for depression. Without firm data, this point is open to debate, I guess. However, I am willing to bet on it. There are too few success stories among the myriad of treatments being applied. To me, it appears that the rate of response to antidepressant treatment on Psycho-Babble is actually lower than one would predict if one were to compare it to more recent estimations of the rate of placebo response.
In light of these assumptions, a thorough evaluation of all possible treatments for depression is warranted. Therefore, this board promises education to these treatments in order to first become aware of them. To me, it seems that people are very supportive of others here as they struggle to remain alive.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on December 22, 2010, at 12:05:24
In reply to Re: *Not* Thinking in terms of meds » linkadge, posted by bleauberry on December 21, 2010, at 17:30:28
> I do believe that when we pin all our hopes on pills, we are indeed engaging in maladaptive behavior...
Who is "we"?
Perhaps you could describe your personal experiences with depressive illness and take ownership of them rather than to generalize them to everyone else. You might have a better chance of uncovering your own truth.
I think that habitually speaking for everyone else is maladaptive.
But that's just me.
- Scott
Posted by jerryTRD on December 22, 2010, at 22:39:32
In reply to Re: Sorry: stupid question for this group of (course), posted by linkadge on December 19, 2010, at 19:01:25
> Did you know that stress increases the level of a chemcal called isatin? Isatin is a highly potent monoamine oxidase A/B inhibitor. It also inhibits acetycholinsterase!
>
> Hmm, when you push / stress yourself, your brain releases an MAOI! (with potentially procognative effects) What an interesting concept? MAOIs......yes, the most potent class of chemical antidepressants currently known to man..... Adversity boosts the production of natural antidepresants.
>
> Thats all I am saying here. If you sit around expecting the energy and motivation to just magically come to you, you may be sitting around forever. Put yourself in a situation which gets you out of your comfort zone, and your brain might actually suprise you.
>
>
> Linkadge
>I've tried allowing my brain to surprise me - but all it does is let me down. Drive me out to the middle of nowhere and I'll sit there until I die.
So sue me if I have even the slightest bit of hope that a medication could end the suffering.
I've also been in therapy for about 20 years - and has it helped me any better than a drug? not at all. So - are you saying that we're all a bunch of mislead med obsessed depressives? Would you say the same thing to someone with cancer??? I doubt it.
I'm feel as tho your "Stupid question for this group" post was condescending and demeaning. Not that you intended that to be I don't know.
Glad you're doing well. Also remember that YOU are a part of "this group." Again I ask - would you be questioning "us" on "this forum" if it were for MS, HIV or Cancer? Would it be OK in your eyes if I had HIV and hoped and prayed for a drug to keep me alive?
- Jerry
Posted by jerryTRD on December 22, 2010, at 22:42:50
In reply to Re: I'm not saying 'snap out of it', posted by linkadge on December 21, 2010, at 8:48:13
> I am just saying that, with depression you have to continually battle it from all sides.
>
> It seems like, when some new fancy medication comes out, people get wished away in the magical world of neurotransmitters, where any frame of mind is achievable with the right medication coctail.
>
> Linkadge
>I think it's called hope. Something you need more than a med cocktail.
Posted by jerryTRD on December 22, 2010, at 22:43:52
In reply to Re: *Not* Thinking in terms of meds » linkadge, posted by SLS on December 22, 2010, at 4:45:36
> Hi Linkadge.
>
> > What the hell does this board actually do for anybody?
>
> I think that depends on the person.
>
> You present some very insightful points. For me, this website helps give me hope in the face of desperation. Are we all non-reponders to all available treatments? I doubt it, but the percentage of people here who meet any accepted definition of TRD must surely be higher than what is found in the total population of people being treated for depression. Without firm data, this point is open to debate, I guess. However, I am willing to bet on it. There are too few success stories among the myriad of treatments being applied. To me, it appears that the rate of response to antidepressant treatment on Psycho-Babble is actually lower than one would predict if one were to compare it to more recent estimations of the rate of placebo response.
>
> In light of these assumptions, a thorough evaluation of all possible treatments for depression is warranted. Therefore, this board promises education to these treatments in order to first become aware of them. To me, it seems that people are very supportive of others here as they struggle to remain alive.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>Thank you Scott. Great post.
Posted by jerryTRD on December 22, 2010, at 22:56:21
In reply to Re: *Not* Thinking in terms of meds » linkadge, posted by bleauberry on December 21, 2010, at 17:30:28
> Link, your comments to me and others in this thread are some of the most profound wisdom I've ever encountered on this board. Man you hit a home run the way I see it.
>
> I do believe that when we pin all our hopes on pills, we are indeed engaging in maladaptive behavior that is destined to lose the war against depression. Depression has too many causes and impacts every corner of the body. It indeed requires a wide ranging comprehensive approach, of which a pill is only one piece of the whole pie. To ignore the whole pie is, as you said, maladaptive.
>
> imo
>
>I agree thinking that one pill will cure everything. But hoping for a med that might just help in the battle is no where near maladaptive. That generalization is - to me - somewhat offensive.
You would never call someone with Cancer, MS, HIV, Dementia, Alzheimer's, etc maladaptive for hoping for a new and better medication to keep them alive longer - how is depression different? So, are you saying that we - on this forum -and in general who have mental illness basically have behavior disorders as well? It's all in our heads right? But if I had a broken bone that would be OK since that is "real?"
Excuse me if I come off as a bit disturbed by yours and others' comments - but for some of us - like me who has gone through ECT, numerous meds/cocktails, supplements, exercise programs, support groups, therapy, Vegal Nerve Stimulator trials and anything else you can think of - I think I should be allowed to have some hope for a new med when it comes out. To me this just adds to the stigma WITHIN our own community. Pretty soon we'll all be telling each other to snap out of it.
When you've tried EVERYTHING that covers the WHOLE "pie" - what do you think we should do then? Don't damn us for educating and supporting each other when it comes to medication. Like I said - you wouldn't be saying the same thing to someone with cancer, etc.
-Jerry.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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