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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ggggg123 on November 4, 2010, at 11:12:52
Just out of interest has anybody had ECT or any other physical treatments? I am just interested to know the outcome. Thanks
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 4, 2010, at 19:42:26
In reply to Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS, posted by ggggg123 on November 4, 2010, at 11:12:52
I had ECT and it had a very transient effect on my depression. Went away as soon as the treatments stopped. No memory problems, as a lot of people report, but while I was in treatment, I had this continual and intrusive deja-vu like feeling. Except instead of feeling like I was remebering something, I felt like I was forgetting something, Made it hard to concentrate or get any work done during the treatments.
Posted by Sailboat77 on November 5, 2010, at 3:30:24
In reply to Re: Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS, posted by emmanuel98 on November 4, 2010, at 19:42:26
I had ECT without any benefit, although I should mention that it has aided a good number of people (especially those suffering from bipolar manic episodes). I had ECT treatments done about 2 months ago. They weren't painful or all that awful, but I did have some memory loss and mild headaches. Looking back, I think it was a viable option for my treatment resistant depression, but as we all know, what works for one person may not work for another. Hope this helps
Posted by ggggg123 on November 5, 2010, at 6:16:41
In reply to Re: Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS, posted by Sailboat77 on November 5, 2010, at 3:30:24
Hi, thanks for the responses!
I am sorry you both didn't benefit from ECT, I have a sort of anhedonia, which seems to be improving slowly. It seemed to start after taking citalopram, although one positive is my anxiety is vastly reduced. I was just wondering about ECT as the side effects are rather benign compared to many ad's if you discount the chance of severe memory loss. But it seems that relief is only temporary in many cases.
Posted by Sailboat77 on November 5, 2010, at 7:06:20
In reply to Re: Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS, posted by ggggg123 on November 5, 2010, at 6:16:41
For those who get relief from ECT the benefit is often temporary, although, a small minority can go for a year or more without needing another one. This however can be extremely varied. I'm not an expert, but I think the most common case is that a person goes in for limited ECT treatments every few months (maybe once every 2 or once every 3 depending on the person).
Posted by bleauberry on November 7, 2010, at 10:33:21
In reply to Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS, posted by ggggg123 on November 4, 2010, at 11:12:52
I did ECT. At the very end of the 12th round I suddenly experienced something close to remission but only for about a day. Then two days later was in an ambulance screaming suicide. So, no, ECT did not work. Statistics on its success rate are far overblown and biased.
The best antidepressant/anti-anxiety strategies I have experienced have been from substances that supposedly have nothing to do with depression. I think that is a downfall of psychiatry...they limit drug choices to things that directly impact neurotransmitters, with total blind disregard for the rest of the brain and body. The depression in many cases is not originating in the brain, but somewhere else in the body. With some creative detective work, many of those causes can be found. I like that approach so much better than ECT or meds.
ECT came with a high price in memory. Random periods of my life are gone completely as if they never happened. Someone asked me the other day, "you remember when we had to carry you in the hospital with pneumonia back in 2005?" Uh...no I don't. And a zillion other things...gone forever. The part of the brain that deals with name recall got fried bigtime. I have such a hard time with people's names now, I mean really hard. People I've worked with for 4 years, I have to struggle to remember their name.
Posted by ggggg123 on November 7, 2010, at 17:16:13
In reply to Re: Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS, posted by bleauberry on November 7, 2010, at 10:33:21
I'm sorry to hear about the memory probs caused by ect.
I've had quite alot of blood tests and I doubt it would be possible for me to identify other problems, as it seems the general rule of thumb that all bloods comeback normal in most depressed patients. Personally I think peope who don't respond to treatment have a dopamine and ne deficiency, and medications seem to neglect these neurotransmitters.
Posted by Maxime on November 7, 2010, at 21:06:17
In reply to Re: Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS, posted by ggggg123 on November 5, 2010, at 6:16:41
- But it seems that relief is only temporary in many cases.
Many cases? Do you mean the handful of people who posted to you here on Babble? Or have you done research and the research points to relief being only temporary. I am not trying to be mean or smart. But using the people on Psycho Babble as a solid research sample is not the best idea. True, some people do not benefit from ECT. But there are many that do. I have friends who had ECT and it helped them long term. I also know people who did not benefit from ECT. I think if you are going to consider ECT you should do a lot of research from different sources.
Take care.
Posted by Maxime on November 7, 2010, at 21:11:01
In reply to Re: Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS, posted by Sailboat77 on November 5, 2010, at 7:06:20
> For those who get relief from ECT the benefit is often temporary, although, a small minority can go for a year or more without needing another one. This however can be extremely varied. I'm not an expert, but I think the most common case is that a person goes in for limited ECT treatments every few months (maybe once every 2 or once every 3 depending on the person).
No, you aren't an expert. Where did you get information from about the effects being temporary? And how do you know that the most common case is that people have to return for treatment?
I really think we need to be careful about what we post here on PB. Your posts can misinform people which is very dangerous. It scare them off from treatments and meds that might have worked for them. I know you aren't trying to misform people on purpose but ...
Posted by ggggg123 on November 8, 2010, at 6:01:20
In reply to Re: Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS » ggggg123, posted by Maxime on November 7, 2010, at 21:06:17
lol Maxime, my sister is a fully qualified doctor, who hast trained with numerous psychiatrists, it is her and their opinion! I was talking about.
Posted by ggggg123 on November 8, 2010, at 6:09:03
In reply to Re: Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS » Sailboat77, posted by Maxime on November 7, 2010, at 21:11:01
but i do appreciate the comment maxime, as at least your inputting some objectivety, I mean it must help some people or it wouldn't still be in widespread use. For alot of people it has saved their lives and made their lives worth living. But for many it would seem that it only provides temporary rlief, going off what alot of people say, and maintenance treatments are fairly common, also many of the people my mother deals with are still ill and have had ect. But there are many statements out there from people who it has virtually cured. so i might be one of the lucky ones, theres no way of knowing, other factors such as did the ones who failed have enough treatments come into play. I've heard of some people not having a good response till having 18 treatments. I don't really care about the overall outcome of ect, I know the situation that it helps some and not others, but I just kinda wanted to hear an indepth account of ect working, but I guess those people are not on this site, so there is a tendancy for subjectivety.
Posted by Maxime on November 8, 2010, at 7:30:41
In reply to Re: Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS, posted by ggggg123 on November 8, 2010, at 6:01:20
> lol Maxime, my sister is a fully qualified doctor, who hast trained with numerous psychiatrists, it is her and their opinion! I was talking about.
Why? Did you talk to the other psychiatrist or just your sister. Maybe she was using the royal "we".
BTW, I would hate to have a non fully trained doctor.
Posted by Maxime on November 8, 2010, at 7:33:16
In reply to Re: Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS » ggggg123, posted by Maxime on November 8, 2010, at 7:30:41
BTW, I am not usually this bitchy. Sorry. I am in a lot of physical pain.
Posted by ggggg123 on November 8, 2010, at 10:05:01
In reply to Re: Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS » ggggg123, posted by Maxime on November 8, 2010, at 7:30:41
Its a figure of speech love, get over it! why do you think you're so clever, yet you come on here seeking answers? move on! you don't scare or embarrass me, in fact I pity you. My sister is a doctor who is being trained by a well experienced psych, all my sisters opinions and knowledge is taught as she only has one years psych experience.
I know you're type, unfortunately the net is full of people like you, but in real life unlike virtual life, there are lots of very nice people. I know which one I would rather live. Go and bitch to someone who cares.
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 8, 2010, at 20:18:21
In reply to Re: Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS » ggggg123, posted by Maxime on November 7, 2010, at 21:06:17
That's a good point Maxime. Kitty Dukakis wrote a book about what a miracle ECT was for her depression. She speaks all over the country about it.
Posted by Maxime on November 8, 2010, at 20:45:08
In reply to Re: Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS, posted by ggggg123 on November 8, 2010, at 10:05:01
> Its a figure of speech love, get over it! why do you think you're so clever, yet you come on here seeking answers? move on! you don't scare or embarrass me, in fact I pity you. My sister is a doctor who is being trained by a well experienced psych, all my sisters opinions and knowledge is taught as she only has one years psych experience.
> I know you're type, unfortunately the net is full of people like you, but in real life unlike virtual life, there are lots of very nice people. I know which one I would rather live. Go and bitch to someone who cares.First of all, don't call me love. I know it's an expression, but I hate it.
And no need to pity me.
I am not trying to embarrass you.
I am clever because I seek answers. That is how I learn. I will never stop seeking answers because that will mean that I have given up.
And for the record, I am a very nice person. I am patient, forgiving, empathetic, and a very, very, very loyal friend. Those who know me in real life know that they can count on me. And I know that I can count on them when things are bad.
Take care.
Posted by Maxime on November 8, 2010, at 20:58:56
In reply to Re: Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS » Maxime, posted by emmanuel98 on November 8, 2010, at 20:18:21
> That's a good point Maxime. Kitty Dukakis wrote a book about what a miracle ECT was for her depression. She speaks all over the country about it.
Yes, I do remembering hearing about that. I think the book is called "Shock"
Another book I liked is called "Undercurrents" by Martha Manning. She was (is) a therapist and had to undergo ECT. The results were positive and she never had to have it again. I heard her speak at an even a few years. She has a great sense of humour!
One of the things she said in her book was when someone is having a heart attack and the heart is shocked back into rhythm it is seen as a miracle. But when the brain is shocked to get it going to the right "rhythm" it is seen as barbaric. It so true. You mention to someone that you are think about having ECT and they look at you like you have fallen off the turnip truck.
I know that ECT doesn't work for everyone, but it has saved lives.
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 9, 2010, at 20:50:52
In reply to Re: Who's ever tried physical treatments? ECT,TMS,VNS » emmanuel98, posted by Maxime on November 8, 2010, at 20:58:56
I read Undercurrents and remember that line. It's a great book. Unfortunately. ECT didn't really work for me. It is true, as Kitty Dukakis's book points out (it's cowritten with a guy who actually did a ton of research on ECT), that most people do continue to go in every 2-3 months for maintenance treatments. I know when I had ECT, this is what the p-doc planned to do once the initial 12 sessions were over, assuming it worked.
This is the end of the thread.
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